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Lakeside increased population?

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Testing your mettle may be a good idea, but do not meddle.    ;)

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Great post ezpz, though I would qualify it a bit by saying that there are places where there are small but still visible expat communities where some Spanish is most definitely required but fluency isn't required. Off-hand Pátzcuaro, Oaxaca city, Guanajuato and Colima come to mind. 

Even my expat friends with fluent Spanish mostly have gringo friends, and that's because (a) that's where the common history and interests are; (b) their Mexican friends are very busy working long hours and attending to their many family obligations. Very few people are really in a position to "go native" 100% and the few I've met who have are married to Mexicans. 

In my limited experience places with really strong indigenous cultures (e.g. Oaxaca, Michoacán, Puebla, Chiapas) are not only the most culturally and culinarily rich parts of México they also mostly attract the kind of expat who chooses Mexico because they love it, not just for a lower cost of living and better climate. They tend to be into the arts and cuisine and to be pretty serious about Spanish. 

This book by John Scherber is really excellent (available on Kindle). It profiles expats who have chosen off-the-beaten parts of México. And as crowded and expensive as the beaten paths are getting to be it might be worth a read by any number of folks here and in San Miguel who can read the writing on the walls about the future in "known" places. 

http://www.sanmiguelallendebooks.com/intotheheartofmexico.html

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Good post.  Would just like to comment that expats, historically, tend to move to places or neighborhoods where there is a commonality of history.  In the U.S., immigrants tended to move to places where people found comfort in speaking their native tongues and enjoying the old recipes.  By the time the second and  third generation arrived on the scene, everyone spoke English and were integrating well into the U.S. culture.  Here in Mexico, there are similarities, but considering the age at which most people arrive, there isn't going to be a "second generation" (unless an expat man marries a younger Mexican lady). 

Some people have the pioneer spirit and want something different from the "expat bubble".  That is bound to be challenging, so kudos to them for their courage.

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4 hours ago, ezpz said:

After living in central Ajijic for 10.5 years now, I finally started traveling around various colonial cities in MX with guided tour groups.  I've loved all of them - San Cristobal, San Miguel, and Zacatecas as well as Mexico City so far.  Coming home put me into the culture shock of realizing that I was sick of the dirty streets  here, traffic congestion on the ever-tacky carretera,  too much loud and low quality amplified music - as well as walking on cobblestones which is harder as you age.  

Right, that`s Ajijic, rather unlivable now I would say for the reasons you stated.  I moved out a year ago.  Most other pueblos in the area are cleaner, better maintained, have better streets, quieter, have less traffic, and are less expensive - La Floresta (though not a pueblo), San Antonio, Chapala, Joco.  

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Less expensive, agreed, but in terms of congestion, I find Chapala worse, with cars double parked on the main street.  La Floresta? Plenty pricey.  The whole area has too many cars and too many people at this point.......so, for those who've "had it", why not move to the other side of the lake?  Same lake to look at and some pretty lights to look at across the way when night comes.

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We're in Chapala centro ourselves and I'm partially in agreement with gringal's thoughts. Double-parking everywhere and the traffic spots being full on the malecon even on weekdays is the new normal here, but the carretera traffic and overall crowdedness is nowhere near as awful as Ajijic. Here if you drive you're pretty much captive (or have to park many blocks away) only on weekends, whereas in Ajijic it's 7 days a week and woe unto you if you live west of town and need to head east at any time. Those spendy gated communities are now often 45 minutes from, say, LCS even on good days and far be it from the "I don't eat Mexican food" set that often chooses such housing to head west to Joco where birria is one of their few options with nary a Thai meal or a Panino's meatloaf special to be found. 

Sadly (and despite the earnest efforts of local "facilitators," LCS staff and of course every realtor in town to promote Ajijic as the epicenter of all that is noble about Lakeside) the virus has certainly spread to Chapala and all points in between. Rents here aren't a whole lot cheaper anymore, there are nearly 700 people on an utterly asinine newly-minted Facebook group called "Chapala Town" (because none of their target audience would known the meaning of "Ciudad de Chapala"?) and the city's idea of making life livable here is inviting 120,000 people for Carnival for 2+ weeks while making sure that more than half the streets in town are torn up, reeking of sewer and of course unusable for transport or parking. Ajijic may well be "Pueblo Tragico" as Mainecoons suggests, but here in Chapala we're "Pueblo de Polvo y Ruido." 

The south side of the lake may not be anywhere near far enough away. 

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Ajijic hiker, I note that SMA was first on your list.  That's where we first landed in Mexico,  in 2004. We lasted until early 2008.  Here are SMA's major problems, and according  to a good friend who still lives there, they're much worse now:  SMA is in a kind of "bowl" similar to Los Angeles.  The air pollution is not as visible, but it's bad.  The traffic congestion is bad, too.  On weekends, it's a getaway for Mexico City residents.  There are many good restaurants, but they are more expensive than ours.  I lived in a mainly Mexican barrio outside of Centro, but within steep walking distance.  Garbage pickup was once a week, and you needed to get up mighty early, carry your week's collection to a central location two blocks away and hand it up to the guy on the truck. Weather: colder in the winter and just as hot in the hot months.  Home prices and rents:  higher.

In spite of the many warts Ajijic has acquired in the last ten years, I'm staying. When I take an early walk to the Malecon, the air is breathable and there's plenty of space around me.  We avoid driving as much as possible, but, as veteran commuters of the Los Angeles freeway system, the level of complaints about this area's traffic seems a bit excessive.;) Most of us don't really need to be in a that big of a hurry.

However, I know the feeling when places change to the point of thinking "there's just got to be something better than this", so I hope your search meets with success.  Guanajuato might be a good bet if it's anything like it used to be.

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11 minutes ago, gringal said:

Guanajuato might be a good bet if it's anything like it used to be.

We are leaving Ajijic for Guanajuato City. Have been building, bought a vacant lot in Centro two years ago and have finished the casita which we live in. 

Love the city. But doubtful anyone wanting to avoid traffic would like it. It's not a great car city at all. It's a walking city with many hills, stairs and alleys. We never had a car in Ajijic, we don't have one in GTO. You can live up on the panoramica and have a house with a garage, but heading down into the city, you need to know the tunnel system, deal with narrow one way streets and struggle to find parking. 

Guanajuato is great, but not if you are a driver.

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On 3/2/2018 at 4:01 PM, lakeside7 said:

Over the past couple of years there has been a noticeable  increase in congestion, noise and dirt at Lakeside, particular  this year with all the new "improvements" in Ajijic. 

Give this year was a good selling period for the Real Estate business, I wonder how much NET gain there has been, I think "most" ( maybe not) homes sold had  people who for the most part winged their way back to the USA or Canada.

On reflection, If it was me looking around at Lakeside today, I do not think I would stay....Would you?

Well I could agree with that....apparently real estate is in a big boom...but my guess...in a few years time, and when the political situation changes in the USA there will be a lot of people leaving Ajijic.   I will as a Cnd. try to sit it out....I'm committed here for many reasons...but there is a group who will flock back I think....this little village is not for them long term, tho it is affordable for many in these economic times.  Who can tell?  There is so much discord and many problems everywhere...who can even predict??    But change is happening...and not always for the best...........         

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19 hours ago, ezpz said:

After living in central Ajijic for 10.5 years now, I finally started traveling around various colonial cities in MX with guided tour groups.  I've loved all of them - San Cristobal, San Miguel, and Zacatecas as well as Mexico City so far.  Coming home put me into the culture shock of realizing that I was sick of the dirty streets  here, traffic congestion on the ever-tacky carretera,  too much loud and low quality amplified music - as well as walking on cobblestones which is harder as you age.  I enjoyed the cooler temps and cleaner air at the higher altitudes.  Of course, relocating definitely crossed my mind.

On these tours, I, a single woman, enjoyed the free time in the evenings,  going off alone to explore different areas while walking at a healthy clip.  I taught myself Spanish before coming here and have used it often since Day One.  I have never inhabited the gringo self segregated all-English parallel universe bubble here.  I'm able to break the ice socially with Mexicans as well as handle routine business and daily transactions.  I chat at length with my maid in Spanish.  Still I am not completely fluent and wonder if I would really thrive where not so many people spoke English outside of the businesses that cater to tourists.  I am returning to one of those lovely places soon to test my meddle - alone.

When considering where else one might live in MX, many seem to ignore the necessity of speaking the language and knowing the culture.  How well would you function up north if you didn't speak English?  Many gringos here are married and take for granted that they always have someone to talk to at home.  Single people find it essential to get out and meet people, but you could only do that in Spanish in these other locations.  And the Mexicans are not spending their lives looking for New Best Friends - they have their extended families around them.

Simply, a few points to consider...

 

Agree with your points...and i am not single, but know of others here who are considering for the same reasons you noted going to another area!   There  are many reasons to stay here..and I would if my circumstances changed.   For the cultural, language and fellow northerners here...I would not like to try to 'break' into a new city and the cliques and groups formed there, plus much less English speakers.   And after returning from visiting 4 cities...albeit not villages....this past few months, and seeing how clean and well run they are.... I too dislike the dirty, noisy and congested highway here...also the lack of general maintenance of streets, traffic lights, and the lack of interest by officials to fix or repair this stuff.       Just sayin'...............

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3 hours ago, Ajijic_hiker said:

I am in agreement with EZPZ and also have been searching the past few years for a new place to live, having lived the past 8 years in Ajijic.  I have house-sat in various cities throughout Mexico,  and have determined that the Lake Chapala area is the noisiest, dirtiest and worst maintained area I have encountered...compared to SMA, Merida, Oaxaca, Guanajuato, Todos Santos, San Cristobal, and even parts of Mexico City.  I plan to use my INAPAM card and take bus trips throughout different areas of Mexico to search for a quieter location...knowing quite well that the weather here is difficult to beat.  I might end up living in 2 places, summer and winter, if that's what it takes.  The traffic here alone is enough to make me want to leave...and add the stray dogs, dog doo, trash, gigantic speakers in the plaza, crumbling sidewalks and roadways, etc...and it all adds up to sadness for me, as I loved it the first 5-6 years I lived here...I will miss my favorite taco stands and my friends here...but it's time to move on.  Ajijic won't miss me, as there will be many new faces arriving here to take my place...and then some.

Yes. I agree with all you've said here....but will stay...who knows....life makes decisions for us....and I may change things too...but for now I'll stay here, grumble and be glad I'm well enuf to walk the streets, park and drive as little as possible, enjoy whatever is good about Ajijic...who knows...it may improve if anyone in authority cared to listen up!!     

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18 hours ago, Kevin K said:

Great post ezpz, though I would qualify it a bit by saying that there are places where there are small but still visible expat communities where some Spanish is most definitely required but fluency isn't required. Off-hand Pátzcuaro, Oaxaca city, Guanajuato and Colima come to mind. 

Even my expat friends with fluent Spanish mostly have gringo friends, and that's because (a) that's where the common history and interests are; (b) their Mexican friends are very busy working long hours and attending to their many family obligations. Very few people are really in a position to "go native" 100% and the few I've met who have are married to Mexicans. 

In my limited experience places with really strong indigenous cultures (e.g. Oaxaca, Michoacán, Puebla, Chiapas) are not only the most culturally and culinarily rich parts of México they also mostly attract the kind of expat who chooses Mexico because they love it, not just for a lower cost of living and better climate. They tend to be into the arts and cuisine and to be pretty serious about Spanish. 

This book by John Scherber is really excellent (available on Kindle). It profiles expats who have chosen off-the-beaten parts of México. And as crowded and expensive as the beaten paths are getting to be it might be worth a read by any number of folks here and in San Miguel who can read the writing on the walls about the future in "known" places. 

http://www.sanmiguelallendebooks.com/intotheheartofmexico.html

Good post....agree, but I am not a pioneer at this point in life...............lots to think about for sure.......... 

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Like It? Then Leave It!

Posted on August 6, 2016

Don’t Like It? Then Leave It!
August 5, 2016

Don’t like it? Then leave it and don’t come back.
Don’t sit there stamping your feet like the brat
You are and demand that things go your way.
It ain’t gonna happen ‘cause that ain’t the way
The people to whom you’re whining operate,
So spare us all your pettiness and hate
As well as your misconceptions of perfection.
You want change? Shut up and make your defection
‘Cause you keep on bitching ‘bout the same damn thing
Every time you open your mouth to sing,
Even when you finally get what you want
‘Cause you apparently can’t help but flaunt
Your asinine opinion of one tiny thing
Over and over again until it stings
The brains of those unfortunate to read it.
We get it, nitpicker. Now shut up and beat it!
Also, I’m sure you’d say the same thing to us
For getting so upset and causing a fuss
Over something we’ve read that we could’ve ignored,
But now you’re spamming your opinion like you’re bored
When once could’ve and should’ve been enough,
But no! Once wasn’t enough of the stuff
In your little mind ‘cause you’re trying to change those
Of the people running things with your groundless woes.
Have your opinion if you want, but stop
With the constant ranting, which’ll get you nowhere, pop.
Just grow up and move on. That’s all there is to it.
Don’t want to operate that way? Screw it!
You’ve had your say, sir. Now cut the crap!
We’re sick and tired of your petty, childish rap.
You’re just being a pain. That’s all there’s left to say.
Now please crawl back into your hole and stay
‘Cause you’re adding nothing to anything anymore
But a pain in our necks. Mine’s especially sore.

 

https://authordustinweber.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/bonus-poem-of-the-week-dont-like-it-then-leave-it/

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9 minutes ago, poptarte_22@yahoo.com said:

Well I could agree with that....apparently real estate is in a big boom...but my guess...in a few years time, and when the political situation changes in the USA there will be a lot of people leaving Ajijic.   I will as a Cnd. try to sit it out....I'm committed here for many reasons...but there is a group who will flock back I think....this little village is not for them long term, tho it is affordable for many in these economic times.  Who can tell?  There is so much discord and many problems everywhere...who can even predict??    But change is happening...and not always for the best...........         

Change, world wide, has been happening at an ever-accelerating rate, and much of it is out of control and of no benefit to anyone.  For example, is anyone (jeje)old enough to remember life before the internet?  Before worldwide connectivity spawned this culture around a little keyboarded object that HAD to go with people everywhere?  I know I'm the resident Luddite, but I refuse to carry my cell phone. It lives in the car 24/7.  

 I do wonder about your statement re people moving north or south because of the current political situation.  I can't imagine packing up and moving to a foreign country for such reasons unless the government was actively persecuting people like me, as in seizing property and jailing persons.

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3 minutes ago, gringal said:

I do wonder about your statement re people moving north or south because of the current political situation.  I can't imagine packing up and moving to a foreign country for such reasons unless the government was actively persecuting people like me, as in seizing property and jailing persons.

 

I did, moved back to Mexico two weeks after the election. Realizing he was elected by the people of the US made me not wish to return, even in a box. 

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Just now, AngusMactavish said:

I did, moved back to Mexico two weeks after the election. Realizing he was elected by the people of the US made me not wish to return, even in a box. 

Put the contract on our current house on Inauguration Day.  

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Well here's an interesting article for those looking for an alternative. Yes, if you read the whole article you will see a passing reference to the opinion of a current resident who writes for IL. It's a Miami Herald article and not just IL propaganda. Not for us but it does sound like Medellin is attracting a few expats and the weather and great healthcare are among the reasons.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/colombia/article203230594.html

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I was reading the article and found this gem:

" Here they found a three-bedroom, 4 1/2-bath apartment that they share with their three dogs and three cats for about $1,400 a month. "  Such a deal??

It goes on to celebrate the murder rate as being lower than Detroit and a few other U.S. cities famous for their high crime rate. This is something to brag about??

Sometimes it seems that the folks writing those articles are passing out free rose colored glasses.

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He He, yeah that part did crack me up a bit also. On the other hand, what would a 3 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath rental go for these days in Ajijic?  I've been away too long to even hazard a guess.

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Well first I'd like to acknowledge those of you unhappy with the last U.S. election acting on your convictions and voting with your feet.  That shows real character.  I don't agree with your take on things but I do respect your integrity in acting on your beliefs.   A lot of folks up there made noises about doing the same and went nowhere.  

As far as the local situation I've noted before there are a number of nearby examples that prove that heavy tourism does not automatically bring the kind of trash and overall maintenance problems we have in Ajijic.  It is determined by whether the local government is doing their job or not.  I've cited Mazamitla as a very heavy tourist town that does brilliantly keeping itself clean, in good repair and graffiti free. 

Typically when I go up there on even Sundays I see municipal workers out picking up or sweeping up trash and the cops out managing the very heavy traffic when needed.  I see few street dogs and have never had to dodge dog poop on sidewalks there.  Same for Tapalpa another very heavily visited town.  I just visited two more Pueblos Magicos outside of PV, both very clean and in decent repair.  So heavy tourism can be managed. 

The difference is local government and this one doesn't cut the mustard.  My Mexican friends tell me there is widespread disaffection with it and the reformers are going to push hard this election, so we do have hope in that area.  I am glad to see that even some of you from Chapala who are the primary beneficiaries of everyone's tax dollars (at least what doesn't get disappeared) are beginning to realize this government isn't necessarily so great for your town either.

In any case the days of relative serenity here are probably gone forever given we have become a weekend favorite of the very big city just to our north.  That doesn't mean however this community has to be saddled with a government that goes out of its way to bring in huge crowds, grossly over amplified events of the type that have been curbed in GDL or one that approves any and all development no matter how inappropriate or illegal and while doing all this fails at providing the most basic services.

This next election is IMO a make or break for this country, this state and this locality.  If people show up and toss out the curruptos things could really start to turn around here, in Jalisco and nationally.  Locally, 3 more years of what we've been saddled with may be the straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak.  Keep your fingers crossed, wish us all luck and encourage those who can vote for change to do so.

 

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As to San Miguel. 

Lots of traffic on holiday weekends but the rest of the time not an issue. We are in centro most every day including every Saturday when we take our daughter to her tutor, although less so on Sundays. On the worse days we use a scooter. There is a new parking lot with 1000 spaces about to open along with a new tourist center as you enter from Queretaro. A/C buses will bring people to centro. There are two other large parking areas exiting and growing. 

Garbage collection is at least 3 times a week, covers every street and using new compacting trucks. 

Since the city is not boxed in by lake and mountain there are alternate routes through and around the perimeter of the city.

Winter nights are definitely cooler but the period from mid April to mid June is not as hot and less humid vs lakeside. A source of heat for 2 months is a plus and air conditioning not required. It is not hard to research historical weather.

Vast majority of growth in SMA is with Mexicans with second homes, coming for the many new jobs, tourism. The number of applicants at Inmigracion has started to rise lately but was down for over a year after the US election. I am at INM almost daily. I have friends at INM who process visas and have confirmed numbers.

Utilities are the same price throughout much Mexico including here. The local Mexican markets (see my link below) for food are very inexpensive. If you shop at Soriana and La Comer prices are much higher.

Every day roads, sidewalks, infrastructure can be seen being repaired. Main sidewalks have been widened and there are many crosswalks.

Rents and homes to buy in centro are up significantly but friends who live in Eldorado at lakeside pay a very high rent and comparable to here. As one goes out from centro prices slowly drop. We are 12 minutes from centro; 3 minutes to daughter's school, new hospital and Liverpool / Soriana etc. while surrounded by open fields, cattle grazing

Majority of restaurants which we patronize are still inexpensive but yes there are many upscale ones as well. The range is huge.

To help us put the pluses and minuses in perspective and lakeside and SMA have both, when friends come to visit we listen and ask them what do they see regarding SMA. They are filled with positives, show their many photos, share their experiences, opening our eyes to the many pluses and opportunities in our small city. Same with clients as they come to SMA filled with joy, freedom and many with an amazing background and unbelievable talent. When we visit Ajijic we dwell on the positives and friends and come back to SMA realizing both areas have their warts but knowing life is good wherever we are. We are grateful to be here and for our friends and supportive clients. Anyone, who wants to live in an area with a significant expat population such as Ajijic, international airport within an hour, major shopping opportunities at least nearby, an area designated rightly or wrongly, as best city in the world and receiving international postive press almost weekly, or an area with great beaches and a "tourist" feeling such as PV and Mazatlan, has to realize others will come and share that experience. 

IF were were to move it would be the Cuernavaca area but at this point with a gorgeous new lot and us looking forward to building a home with amazing views this is home for the foreseeable future. And, we will dwell on the positives while not ignoring the negatives. 

For those at lakeside ask newcomers and friends who are visiting about the positives they experience. You may be surprised at how many there are.

http://www.soniadiaz.mx/san-miguel-de-allende.html

If one gets to the point that a location does not work for you just accept it and enjoy the opportunity to explore somewhere new. Life is about the journey.

 

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18 hours ago, gringal said:

Less expensive, agreed, but in terms of congestion, I find Chapala worse, with cars double parked on the main street.  La Floresta? Plenty pricey.  The whole area has too many cars and too many people at this point.......so, for those who've "had it", why not move to the other side of the lake?  Same lake to look at and some pretty lights to look at across the way when night comes.

I am surprised that land developers haven't done anything on the other side of the lake.  Internet from Ilox is available and there is lots of land and you have route 15 heading from Joco around the lake. I suppose in due time it will happen.

 

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2 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

Well here's an interesting article for those looking for an alternative. Yes, if you read the whole article you will see a passing reference to the opinion of a current resident who writes for IL. It's a Miami Herald article and not just IL propaganda. Not for us but it does sound like Medellin is attracting a few expats and the weather and great healthcare are among the reasons.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/colombia/article203230594.html

That was one place we looked at a few years ago. Pretty incredible city. We just felt uneasy given its history. It's also quite a huge city. I do believe Columbia is now getting many refugees from what's happening In Venezuela. But among them are many professionals that are leaving. The world is ever changing.

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I'm happy wherever I am but ain't no place that's perfect nor will there ever be. I've lived in San Miguel de Allende for nine years... San Pancho, Nayarit for six years and now here since May of 2011. I've lived on the west side of Ajijic and now on the east side of it... as in east of the Libramiento. I like very much where I am now located and have no intention of leaving... unless it's feet first. As I write this, it's 0 Celsius in Toronto and cloudy. Anybody who wants to whine about the traffic here has never been stuck in traffic four lanes wide on the Don Valley Parkway... and that happens daily. The sun is shining, my door is wide open and I'm content. Smile!

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48 minutes ago, Ferret said:

I'm happy wherever I am but ain't no place that's perfect nor will there ever be. I've lived in San Miguel de Allende for nine years... San Pancho, Nayarit for six years and now here since May of 2011. I've lived on the west side of Ajijic and now on the east side of it... as in east of the Libramiento. I like very much where I am now located and have no intention of leaving... unless it's feet first. As I write this, it's 0 Celsius in Toronto and cloudy. Anybody who wants to whine about the traffic here has never been stuck in traffic four lanes wide on the Don Valley Parkway... and that happens daily. The sun is shining, my door is wide open and I'm content. Smile!

Agreed. I`ve never understood the chronic complainers.  Why would you choose to stay unhappy about things you can`t change? We`re just here for a little while and have no real right to anything.  So, if the sun is shining, you have good clean food, air and water, the weather is perfect most of the year, people greet you all day with good will in their hearts, you have the largest fresh water lake mere blocks away, and a teeth cleaning costs $15, and your response is not to practically melt with happiness, perhaps the problem is looking at you in the mirror!

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