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Lakeside increased population?

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Do not worry michel 2595, the town never was clean  or in tip top shape so there is no danger we go back to the original town. We I came in in 2001, there was more sewer lines broken and raw sewage going into the lake. there was more garbage at the lake because the lake was way out. The gardners burned the debris and some garbage on the bank of the lake, now they cannot because  people took over the federal zone, there was more horse and cow poop all over because there was cattle grazing at the lake and moving around the streets, more dogs in distress  .. street lights would go out for ever... so there is no perfect time, it is just that with time we forget things.. Once thing we did not have is the traffic back up, caused by the lights because there were no lights., nor did we have a Soriana or a Walmart. The restaurants would close at 8 and went out of business like clock work during the low season.. It never was paradise.. nor was it ever magical, charming yes but clean and magical , I do not think so.

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I am a relative newbie, going on 2 years here. I am mainly a reader of this forum. I do not write very often. But this discussion has neglected mentioning something that I am aware of every day. I have 4 caregivers who take care of my spouse who is severely handicapped. That is why we are here. We could not afford private care in the US, or even a nursing home, heaven forbid if it came to that.

Most of my friends here in Ajijic are those caregivers and their families which we have been adopted into. One of them came in very sad last week. His family has to move, their home (very near 6 corners) has been sold to a “gringo”. Small apartments will be built- but of course not affordable for him and his family. He is having a very difficult time finding a place to live for him and his wife and 2 teenage daughters. He grew up here and most of his family is still here. [A 5-6 unit complex just went up on Hidalgo. Over $500 US for a one bedroom tiny place. For Mexicans? What do you think?] Another caregiver asked me, ‘Is our house next?’ She and her husband and 3 boys live a block from 6 corners. Rent 2000 pesos per month. Not in great shape, but a nice property for someone from NOB looking to make some money. Her comments: “If we could only buy something and pay per month we could do it”, “Why don’t they keep the Mexican areas off-limits for foreigners to buy?” She is educated and she and her husband are so dedicated to their son’s education.

Will Ajijic become a town of expats with the Mexicans commuting from somewhere they can afford? Not able to live in the town their families have lived for generations? Most of us rent/buy homes not affordable to the average Mexican here. But what happens when their homes are being taken for our needs?

Is there anything that can be done? It breaks my heart. I was on Isla Mujeres last month. The same happened to the people there and they squatted on a piece of land and the government actually deeded 200 families each a piece of land so they would not have to move from their island.  

Thanks for listening. I needed to get that off my chest. 

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Well when we arrived in early 08 pretty much all of that was gone or much improved.  If you had a hand in that BMH we owe you thanks. 

Those of you who were here when it looked like they would let the lake go dry and you hung on were a pretty tough lot.  A lot of folks left at that time I understand.  I've seen pictures but it is hard for pictures to describe what that must have looked like in 3D.  Pretty scary.

The restaurants still come and go.  The garbage burning is less, the yard waste and field burning maybe more.  The dirty air from GDL seems to be affecting a larger area including us at times.  The dog problem seems to ebb and flow but there has to have been some significant progress thanks wholly to a bunch of wonderful volunteers.  The local government is AWOL on that too.

When we came there was a real effort to keep the streets outside of Chapala clean and repaired.  That is gone too.  Most of the trash cans put up by volunteers are gone or broken with no effort again by local government to maintain them.  

Poor Riberas was an orphan, a failed fracc, and it still is and building permits are being handed out there despite things having reached the point where sewage is coming to the surface.  Promises to form a sewer district there have been just hot air.

Chapala highway wasn't the wreck it is now.  Not the fault of the locals but the state government hails from the same political party that has, shall we say politely, a record of managing to make a lot of tax money disappear with little to show for it.

There is no perfect time but the apparent reversal and the breakdown of services is a great deal more recent.  We are not imagining the change from the right direction to the wrong direction.  It started just a few years ago and has accelerated.

Good comment about the lights, a totally unnecessary nuisance.  While I recognize these are supposed to be the responsibility of the state I wonder if a really proactive local government that was concerned about the entire municipio would have pushed them hard to correct this rather obvious mistake in San Antonio for example.

I see no indication they even notice there's a problem there.  And it has become a serious one, backing traffic up onto the Libremiento and all the way to Mirasol.  Perhaps it is time to take a lesson from the municipalities around the country who are finding that "uno y uno" intersections and removing tope overkill can really help.

This has been a remarkable discussion for its breadth and civility.  My compliments to all of you.  This election coming up IMO is a real test for this country, this state and this municipio.  There's a real opportunity to change the direction and the environment of impunity and corruption holding back all three.   We're keeping our fingers crossed.

 

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3 hours ago, Ajijic_hiker said:

I can't for the life of me understand why any one would post a 'haha' meme after reading MOPSY'S posting!   Geez! :wacko:

Maybe the finger slipped and pressed the wrong button.

However, this situation is not confined to Mexico.  In the states, rents and real estate prices in the large cities where the good jobs usually are, are forcing workers to commute for hours.

San Francisco is one prime example I'm familiar with.

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San Miguel in some areas is the same and many other places. That is called gentrification , no? Paris is that way.. Harlem, parts of San Francisco people come and go , they build mansions  lose interest in the area, the mansions become tenaments and then get rebuilt.. Place des Vosges one of the most expensive place in Paris was a place for the rich , then for the poor , full of thieves and prostitution and now  who can afford it? Try Aspen for an extreme exemple where workers get bussed in from another town..

Already when we came in in 2001 people in 6th corner were complaining they could not find an affordable place. My cleaning lady and al the workers we have had over the yeards live in 6 corners and we live near by s well.. Yes the poorer Mexicans and others will be displaced eventually .

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10 hours ago, Mopsy said:

I am a relative newbie, going on 2 years here. I am mainly a reader of this forum. I do not write very often. But this discussion has neglected mentioning something that I am aware of every day. I have 4 caregivers who take care of my spouse who is severely handicapped. That is why we are here. We could not afford private care in the US, or even a nursing home, heaven forbid if it came to that.

Most of my friends here in Ajijic are those caregivers and their families which we have been adopted into. One of them came in very sad last week. His family has to move, their home (very near 6 corners) has been sold to a “gringo”. Small apartments will be built- but of course not affordable for him and his family. He is having a very difficult time finding a place to live for him and his wife and 2 teenage daughters. He grew up here and most of his family is still here. [A 5-6 unit complex just went up on Hidalgo. Over $500 US for a one bedroom tiny place. For Mexicans? What do you think?] Another caregiver asked me, ‘Is our house next?’ She and her husband and 3 boys live a block from 6 corners. Rent 2000 pesos per month. Not in great shape, but a nice property for someone from NOB looking to make some money. Her comments: “If we could only buy something and pay per month we could do it”, “Why don’t they keep the Mexican areas off-limits for foreigners to buy?” She is educated and she and her husband are so dedicated to their son’s education.

Will Ajijic become a town of expats with the Mexicans commuting from somewhere they can afford? Not able to live in the town their families have lived for generations? Most of us rent/buy homes not affordable to the average Mexican here. But what happens when their homes are being taken for our needs?

Is there anything that can be done? It breaks my heart. I was on Isla Mujeres last month. The same happened to the people there and they squatted on a piece of land and the government actually deeded 200 families each a piece of land so they would not have to move from their island.  

Thanks for listening. I needed to get that off my chest. 

Interesting post. I was always one of the few gringos that did not believe most Mexicans were happy to see us come to Ajijic. It was, and probably still is true that many women and men were able to gain more employment as maids, handymen and gardeners. But as I studied the faces of the younger males no amount of "preaching" ever convinced me they liked my (our) presence. 

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Both John McCain and John Kelly have both publicly stated that if Obrador were to be elected in Mexico, that this would be worrisome to the U.S. If Amlo were to become "anti-american", (which is what they fear) his populist base would support this, just as 45's base supports anti brown and black skin immigration. So it may come down to, which side of the wall you want to land in. A lot of Americans will have to careful with their often loud and public proclamations of a Great America.

This song by Moby, we are all made of stars, comes to mind often reading these posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDq33zsu4tQ

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35 minutes ago, gringal said:

Maybe the finger slipped and pressed the wrong button.

However, this situation is not confined to Mexico.  In the states, rents and real estate prices in the large cities where the good jobs usually are, are forcing workers to commute for hours.

San Francisco is one prime example I'm familiar with.

Maybe Lakeside should study this article and consider replicating the lure of Bend, Or. With the new high speed internet coming in that should solve one of the main problems. If tech workers can live and commute from Bend to Silicon Valley why not Lakeside? Improve the airport in Chapala and if they constructed something comparable to Sunriver near there I bet the techies would be tempted. My almost five years in Bend in the early 80's are still a very fond memory and I certainly know what the attractions are there as well as knowing what they are at Lakeside.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/bend-oregon-is-becoming-one-of-silicon-valleys-top-commute

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11 minutes ago, AngusMactavish said:

Dead link here.

Hmmm........I see that you are correct. When I go into the original CNBC story the link works fine on the Drudge Report but when cutting and pasting it..........Page does not exist. Above my pay grade as to what the problem is but if interested it's on that site which a "Never Trumper" would probably "Never Visit". Interesting story nonetheless.

Edit:  If you are really interested you can click on the link that sends you to the CNBC site from that dead link. At the top of the page is a search function. I typed Bend in and the article did come up. More work than I would normally do but then I am the one who posted a dead link. I like the Google "test this link" function on most sites but not this one.

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Although Mopsy's post made me sad, I would be curious as to the nationality of the owner of the house BEFORE it got sold to a gringo. Nobody is immune to capitalism and benefitting their own pockets first.

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I sometimes read these links, always with amazement that there is the belief that the only possible option for those disenchanted with the Chapala area is to return NOB. I have relocated, after 5 years in Ajijic, to a small city South of DF. The weather is considered by Mexicans to be the best in the country, there are infinite resources, the rents are cheaper and I have no complaints. Trash is picked up on schedule, streets and sidewalks are paved and although I'm sure the expat community here have their gripes, I haven't heard them. So by all means be unhappy in place or investigate the possibilities within Mexico. I will say that there is not the preponderance of English speakers so if you cannot learn the basics of the language of the country where you live, it wouldn't work for you outside the Chapala area. However, after I was scammed, robbed and burgled in Ajijic in one year, it seemed reasonable to see how the rest of the country would treat me. So far, so good.

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Do not worry Ferret the owner is probably Mexican if people can get good money for slums they will do it, nothing to do with nationality and then they will have more money to build something a little better somewhere else but then the trade off will be money and time spent commuting.. Sounds familiar? Yes it will change the character of the town even more..

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There are foreigners everywhere in Mexico who do not speak Spanish and they survive.. even outside of Lakeside..YOu do not have to speak the language but then it can be mighty lonely,..

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1 hour ago, pappysmarket said:

Maybe Lakeside should study this article and consider replicating the lure of Bend, Or. With the new high speed internet coming in that should solve one of the main problems. If tech workers can live and commute from Bend to Silicon Valley why not Lakeside? Improve the airport in Chapala and if they constructed something comparable to Sunriver near there I bet the techies would be tempted. My almost five years in Bend in the early 80's are still a very fond memory and I certainly know what the attractions are there as well as knowing what they are at Lakeside.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/bend-oregon-is-becoming-one-of-silicon-valleys-top-commute

As is our NOB city of Reno NV. Add to the mess that low income housing is being bulldozed by delelopers for " market priced housing" and minimum wage employees are being displaced. 

Many of these workers walk to work, they are now having to move from the area where they work to places further out of the core. And public transportation is poor at best. 

Seems our city government NOB could care less about lessons of other cities as long as revenues are increased via property tax increases. 

A recent "fee" just passed, increasing my taxes by 24%. Overall 2.6 million dollars a year for a specific area, and for that we get community ambassadors. 

Gentrification is a worldwide issue for people in lower income brackets. Consumers will just absorb the higher cost to entice workers back into the area. It's reality. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pappysmarket said:

Maybe Lakeside should study this article and consider replicating the lure of Bend, Or. With the new high speed internet coming in that should solve one of the main problems. If tech workers can live and commute from Bend to Silicon Valley why not Lakeside? Improve the airport in Chapala and if they constructed something comparable to Sunriver near there I bet the techies would be tempted. My almost five years in Bend in the early 80's are still a very fond memory and I certainly know what the attractions are there as well as knowing what they are at Lakeside.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/bend-oregon-is-becoming-one-of-silicon-valleys-top-commute

GDL is the new tech center of Mexico and as I stated before I know quite a few executives who have homes here and commute.

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Well if they could attract a few of the Silicon Valley techies that would be all the better for Lakeside. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Gdl is yet competing with Silicon Valley for the best and brightest.

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Here is what militant anti-gentrification looks like in L.A. Not a pretty picture - fear and intimidation, from the left this time. I have never personally seen rallies like this in Mexico, but I know they are a common, and accepted form of dissent here. If this rally went though Ajijic, I know a lot of people would leave.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-generation-anti-gentrification-radicals-march-los-angeles-around-country-100000522.html

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16 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

That really is the nub of the problem, this local government.  Mazamitla and Tapalpa for examples are both getting the same flood of newly car owning Tapatios but they managed to stay clean and in good repair.  The flip side of the increase in tourism is the increase in tax dollars to cope with it.  Clearly these towns have.  They are much more crowded than 10 years ago but if anything have improved their maintenance and presentation.

Just as clearly that is not the case here.  Simply restoring the level of service and maintenance that existed 10 years ago would help significantly.  If in fact the very substantial increase in revenues were really put to work instead of into someones pockets we would be able to cope with this situation much better just as the other tourist towns are.

Pueblo Magico without cleaning up city hall will result in any increases in revenues disappearing like all the rest.  I am told the Mexican community here is as fed up as we are but will they actually turn out and make the needed change?  It is hard not to feel that 3 more years like the last 2.5 will turn this place into a complete dump.

 

 

Yes you nailed it.  The corruption is the issue...and problem...but what's to be done about it??   

 

This year particularly we have traveled to many other areas in Mexico...and never ever saw the trashy way this town is run!!  Traffic lights work, clean streets...even if cobbled still in good repair!  And yes, they are bigger and have more money, etc etc...but if people cared here and with the increase in tax money and other revenues one could expect better conditions...and at least cleanliness!!  Finish up a project...ie: if trimming trees...take away the debris...and garbage left by work crews...it goes on and on.  

I am not sure I can stay and watch it deteriorate for as long as I have always intended...it is just getting worse all the time.

And I do love Mexico and this area, or I wouldn't be as committed as I am, but...       

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16 minutes ago, michael2595 said:

GDL is the new tech center of Mexico and as I stated before I know quite a few executives who have homes here and commute.

One reason I became more interested in Lakeside a couple of years ago was GDLs' planned participation in an IEEE 'smart cities' (IoT) worldwide initiative, and Jaliscos' ambitious "Creative Digital Cities" plans.  (See/ http://ccdguadalajara.com/en_US )  Last time I looked into them, neither of these seemed to be scaling, except for the participation of a few fine academics.  But I can't really tell much about their progress from here in California or during brief visits.  The social and economic, as opposed to purely technical, orientation of these programs is appropriate, you'd suppose.

 

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I haven't read all of these posts as there are too many and some are just too long.

I hear what you all are saying, but we are not the ones that can go out on election day and change the government.  I wonder if the local Mexicans feel the same way.  If they do, then they have to act with their feet and get out and vote, and they are the ones, for those of you who are fluently bilingual, that you have to talk to about your concerns.  The current administration is certainly not listening to the expats, who do much for the Mexicans at Lakeside.

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5 hours ago, IMBurnen said:

I sometimes read these links, always with amazement that there is the belief that the only possible option for those disenchanted with the Chapala area is to return NOB. I have relocated, after 5 years in Ajijic, to a small city South of DF. The weather is considered by Mexicans to be the best in the country, there are infinite resources, the rents are cheaper and I have no complaints. Trash is picked up on schedule, streets and sidewalks are paved and although I'm sure the expat community here have their gripes, I haven't heard them. So by all means be unhappy in place or investigate the possibilities within Mexico. I will say that there is not the preponderance of English speakers so if you cannot learn the basics of the language of the country where you live, it wouldn't work for you outside the Chapala area. However, after I was scammed, robbed and burgled in Ajijic in one year, it seemed reasonable to see how the rest of the country would treat me. So far, so good.

What small city did you move to south of DF — is it a University town?   Most I know that have moved, other than for medical motives, have picked Colima or the coast and none had any desire to go back to the excited states.

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I have lived in Ajijic full time for almost 13 years - visited here for the first time about 20 years ago. I started coming to Mexico and Central America in the mid 60's - even drove to the Panama Canal and back one time.

I have definitely seen quite a bit of change in Ajijic over the 20 years I have known about the place. Traffic is definitely heavier and some other things have changed - some for the better and some not so great.

I am actually in the U.S. right now visiting grand kids but can't wait to get "home" next week. Mexico and Ajijic are far from perfect but I've never had one day when I thought about leaving. We have friends that are REALLY frustrated by lost of things - most notably the traffic. I'm never in a hurry so I just refuse to let the traffic bother me. I never give a moments thought to things I want to change and hope I never do. If that ever happens I'll just have a margarita and I'm sure that those thoughts will pass.

As one of my great work friends used to say "It's 10% how you make it and 90% how you take it". I don't care if the glass if half full or half empty - I just LOVE the glass. I feel truly blessed.

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