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Our taxes NOT at work


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Hey Nedro, I have such a fun file of you it isn't funny. There have been times when you say you have known Pedro for 20 years, now you are saying, you have known yourself for 40 years. You once said you lived two blocks up the hill from Pedro another time you said somewhere else. If you are going to fib, get your story straight and don't forget what you previously posted

Look at my age. I am 107 or so. Of course that picture was taken a long time ago., maybe 40 years ago. And I want you to believe Nedro that I am only 97 not 107. That is why my photo is so old

Oh going back in your file, it starts in Millet where your phone # was 780-387-4271.  I don't have anything bad about you, I have rather entertained myself saving the posts you make saying you are so important and posting a picture to prove it. Then comparing what you say first about a picture of you and then later and see how things change over the years when you post the same picture again saying something different. It has been great fun

And you have helped around lakeside. I remember seeing you over at the orphanage in San Juan Cosala where you worked very hard helping out. I believe, we had lunch together'.

I wish you the best and hope that you will continue to entertain us talking about yourself.

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On 1/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Mainecoons said:

Exactly.  And you don't have to go near that far to realize what a disgrace the government of this municipio is.  It is no wonder there are a number of facebook sites now with local Mexicans slamming the heck out of it.  I've been to too many Mexican towns that lack the rich tax base this one has yet manage to keep clean and in good repair to buy this "our taxes are too low" baloney. 

I'm visiting a poor ejido town south of Oaxaca right now and yet it is clean and in good repair.  I see municipal workers out picking up the trash reliably in decent equipment, keeping things well swept and repaired.  I'm a little embarrassed when our friends from here stay with us and see anything but this in Ajijic.

Our taxes aren't too low, they are too stolen and too squandered on bloated city hall payrolls.  There is simply no excuse for two long years of failure to handle competently the most basic services of trash pick up and street repair.

Totally agree!!!  I just said nearly word for word on another post the same thing....smalerl or bigger town/cities are CLEAN, WELL MAINTAINED, STOPLIGHTS FUNCTIONING, ROADS REPAIRED...!!!!!!      This will NEVER become a magico town!!  Too neglected and corrupt...and I own property and pay taxes here and am not going NORTH anytime soon....so please do not disparage these remarks with..'go back' remarks.  Town needs serious management and help.....but raw sewage into the lake????   That's bad....

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On 1/27/2018 at 7:09 AM, cedros said:

There are many places around the lake shore where you can see sewage flowing into the lake.

Not in Chapala. Many have said that Chapala gets the municipality money first, then it goes on down the road.  Sure seems like it.  Anyway, sure is nicer living in Chapala than it was in Ajijic.  Ajijic gonna be a pueblo majico?  Seems a bit far-fetched.

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Having lived in Ajijic 2001-2004, and then in Chapala from 2004-2014, I can agree wholeheartedly with Bdmowers, that Chapala is an easier and more pleasant place to live.  The myth of “more Spanish being required“ is quite false, but one can use Spanish in Chapala more often, simply because it is a larger population and more varied, with a smaller percentage of expats. Shopping and walking are much easier, and so much more is available.  Neighborhoods are intact and stable, so finding a home without surprises is quite possible; although the number of available homes in Chapala is usually limited. It takes patience to find one, and the typical Ajijic realtor is not likely to be interested in helping you; his honey-hole is Ajijic.  We also found that prices in Ajijic, for most things, could be as much as 40% more than in Chapala, or even Guadalajara.  Needless to say, we miss Chapala, but also the easy access to things along the carretera between there and Ajijic.  Actually, we found it easier to get to them from Chapala, than it had been from our previous home on Ocamp, in Ajijic.  Today‘s traffic has probably made that even more noticeable.

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I find it interesting the residents of Chapala here just can't seem to extol the virtues of Chapala without slamming Ajijic.  Why the apparent defensiveness?

The weekend news has it that up to 200K visitors are expected in Chapala over Mardi Gras.  During these periods indeed most weekends Chapala is crammed far beyond any other place along the lake with visitors.  It is not at all uncommon during these times to find traffic backed up all the way from the traffic light at the center of town out to beyond the INM offices.  It is a fiction to pretend Chapala doesn't have as bad or worse traffic problems than the rest of us.

We used to shop there but the traffic and parking problems, plus the growing availability of closer alternatives, have made that too much of a chore particularly on the weekends.  Too bad as we really like the central Mercado.

The worst traffic problem in the entire area has become in San Antonio due to the usual ineptness of our local government in allowing the placement of two untimed traffic lights within a block of each other and then not taking steps to see the people responsible for same correcting the error.

Sometime ago I visited the home of one of the people here who loves to slam Ajijic after living here for only a few years in a not very convenient area before moving to Chapala.  The din outside on the street and in his home on a week day was loud and intrusive and this wasn't even close to the Malecon.  The home was lovely but we couldn't imagine how they could stand the racket.

It is just plain noisy much of the time in Chapala and a lot more so on the weekends.  Chapala is a very lively and Mexican place.  Not everyone wants that including a lot of Mexicans who chose to live in quieter, greener Ajijic.

There's no doubt the opportunities for shopping are better in Chapala.  However, where we live everything is in as easy of a walk as it would be in Chapala and all the necessities are well covered.  For certain, the west side of Ajijic is less convenient but that is not the entire town by a long shot.  

However I do also appreciate and thank bdmowers for his rare candor among the Chapaleans here about how everyone's tax dollars are largely spent in his town.  For a really vivid example of this, first walk the Ajijic Malecon and notice all the rotting bridges and broken benches and contrast them with what you see on the Chapala Malecon.  For an even more vivid example, take a drive around Riberas.

And then there's the trash pick up mess which seems to affect everyone but Chapala.  Yup, still going on here after two long years.

Several local Mexican professionals here did an audit of where this municipio gets its property tax dollars.  To no ones surprise except for the deniers and apologists, Ajijic comprises over 60 percent of the property tax base.  I would expect that adding in the rest of the municipio outside of Chapala would push this over 70-75 percent.

Property taxes account for 70 percent of the municipio's budget.  You do the math.

From all of us outside of Chapala, not just Ajijic, you're welcome, Chapala.  :)

 

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I would imagine it had to do with votes. An elected official is more concerned in re-election than who is paying the tax dollars. The expat community in Ajijic who can't vote in elections don't really have much in the way of leverage. And you can't protest. You are pretty much relegated to complaining on a forum, paying your taxes and dealing with the reality of having little in the way to effect a change. 

Not a put down, just a reality. Without the right to vote or protest, you kind of have to accept your lot in the grand scheme of local politics. Cash cows without voices. 

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28 minutes ago, zerbit said:

I would imagine it had to do with votes. An elected official is more concerned in re-election than who is paying the tax dollars. The expat community in Ajijic who can't vote in elections don't really have much in the way of leverage. And you can't protest. You are pretty much relegated to complaining on a forum, paying your taxes and dealing with the reality of having little in the way to effect a change. 

Not a put down, just a reality. Without the right to vote or protest, you kind of have to accept your lot in the grand scheme of local politics. Cash cows without voices. 

Yep, sad but true.  And thus far the local business community has really failed to step up to the plate on this issue.

Compounding the problem is we have so many absentee/part time Mexican owners who also don't vote here.

Good post, thanks.

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

Yep, sad but true.  And thus far the local business community has really failed to step up to the plate on this issue.

Compounding the problem is we have so many absentee/part time Mexican owners who also don't vote here.

Good post, thanks.

Did the government of the Municipality of Chapala finish paying off the enormous debt the previous administration before the last one racked up 4 or 5 years ago yet?

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19 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

Did the government of the Municipality of Chapala finish paying off the enormous debt the previous administration before the last one racked up 4 or 5 years ago yet?

I have no idea but they did manage to increase the city hall payroll by 50% while turning trash pickup outside of Chapala into a crap shoot for two long years.   Does that qualify for brownie points?

Most likely, after election day we'll find out the furniture and equipment has been stripped from city hall and the bank accounts emptied as per usual.  :D

 

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4 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

 

However I do also appreciate and thank bdmowers for his rare candor among the Chapaleans here about how everyone's tax dollars are largely spent in his town.  For a really vivid example of this, first walk the Ajijic Malecon and notice all the rotting bridges and broken benches and contrast them with what you see on the Chapala Malecon.  For an even more vivid example, take a drive around Riberas.

And then there's the trash pick up mess which seems to affect everyone but Chapala.  Yup, still going on here after two long years.

Several local Mexican professionals here did an audit of where this municipio gets its property tax dollars.  To no ones surprise except for the deniers and apologists, Ajijic comprises over 60 percent of the property tax base.  I would expect that adding in the rest of the municipio outside of Chapala would push this over 70-75 percent.

Property taxes account for 70 percent of the municipio's budget.  You do the math.

From all of us outside of Chapala, not just Ajijic, you're welcome, Chapala.  :)

 

Here we go again. Audit on what by what professionals? Prove that the budget for the entire municipo is 70% derived from property taxes and not derived from State and Federal grants and municipal loans. Then tell us how many more large and small  commercial enterprises who pay property taxes and manufacturing plants that pay property taxes there are in Ajijic than in Chapala. And then tell us how many more family estates there are in Ajijic with 4 or more houses on them each one larger than yours or even Johanson's. The second pic is of a family 3 story complex,not a hotel in upper Lourdes and you can see the house to the right of it is at least twice the size of yours. there are more like that up there The middle floor is a movie theater,gym and games room. The first pic is a Lourdes weekend condo complex,each is 2 stories,owned by 30 somethings pro Tapatios  complete with enclosed  kids outdoor playpark and pool. The third is the grounds keepers family house for the condo.

lourdes weekend condos.jpg

lourdes mansion.jpg

lourdes condo cartakers house.jpg

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5 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

 

Property taxes account for 70 percent of the municipio's budget.  You do the math.

 

I have done the math...and discovered that total taxes from Ajjiic amount to about ten percent of the municipal budget. We did that calculation together, in a discussion on this board. (You can find the thread right here if you don't remember.) You had figures from Harry and repeated his claim that Ajijic tax revenues accounted for 67 percent of the annual budget for the municipality. However, you did not know what the total budget was...just accepted Harry's claim. Turned out, when compared to the actual operating budget, it only amounted to about ten percent. Most of the municipality's operating budget comes from state and federal sources and not from local taxes. Please stop repeating this false and misleading claim.

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9 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Nedro you really do need to get beyond the Iron Horse in your travels, LOL.  Take the bus since the BSA won't make it that far and look out the windows.  Both sides.  From the edge of Chapala right to the outside of San Juan.  Take pictures to help you remember.

 

 

First of all I  am Ned and have only been to the Iron Horse once and my friend  Pedro hasn't been there in months and your response is rather lame so it appears that you have once again posted nothing of reality and no answer to my questions will be forthcoming. Is that correct?  And who needs to get out more-hmmm? Oh! and just for fun,can you tell us any municipal or state capitol anywhere in the world that doesn't use more funds for it than others in it's jurisdiction.

 

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3 minutes ago, alex45920 said:

I have done the math...and discovered that total taxes from Ajjiic amount to about ten percent of the municipal budget. We did that calculation together, in a discussion on this board. (You can find the thread right here if you don't remember.) You had figures from Harry and repeated his claim that Ajijic tax revenues accounted for 67 percent of the annual budget for the municipality. However, you did not know what the total budget was...just accepted Harry's claim. Turned out, when compared to the actual operating budget, it only amounted to about ten percent. Most of the municipality's operating budget comes from state and federal sources and not from local taxes. Please stop repeating this false and misleading claim.

There you just heard from somebody else about your wrong and false claim from at least one unreliable source.

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http://theguadalajarareporter.net/index.php/news/news/lake-chapala/45400-chapala-property-owners-receive-hefty-tax-increase

Alex, read the third from last paragraph carefully, particularly this sentence:  "On the other hand the municipal government will retain control of the revenue it generates without being subject to arbitrary timing and the will of the state to recover the principal source of its own income."

And from the second from last paragraph, quoting a Chapala official directly:  "We're one of the fortunate ones that generates significant predial income." 

Definition of "principal"

prin·ci·pal
ˈprinsəpəl/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    first in order of importance; main.
    "the country's principal cities"
    synonyms: main, chief, primary, leading, foremost, first, first-line, most important, predominant, dominant, (most) prominent; More

Alex, maybe you should take the bus ride with Nedro.

:D

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

http://theguadalajarareporter.net/index.php/news/news/lake-chapala/45400-chapala-property-owners-receive-hefty-tax-increase

Alex, read the third from last paragraph carefully, particularly this sentence:  "On the other hand the municipal government will retain control of the revenue it generates without being subject to arbitrary timing and the will of the state to recover the principal source of its own income."

And from the second from last paragraph, quoting a Chapala official directly:  "We're one of the fortunate ones that generates significant predial income." 

Definition of "principal"

prin·ci·pal
ˈprinsəpəl/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    first in order of importance; main.
    "the country's principal cities"
    synonyms: main, chief, primary, leading, foremost, first, first-line, most important, predominant, dominant, (most) prominent; More

Alex, maybe you should take the bus ride with Nedro.

:D

 

 

Wake up most of this, like the reported 37% increase never happened. Show us the audit you speak of and stop calling me Nedro because according to the rules on here that is a personal attack. And Gringal there has been plenty of "proof on here" disputing what MR. Maincoons repeats like a Hindi mantra. Alex has been here longer than all 3 of us and lived in your village as well as the undisputed centre of the universe here. Take your own advice Mr. Maincoons and you take that bus ride. If you catch the right one it might even take you past that mansion on the hill. there's a bluegrass song about that  which you might want to sing while you're on the bus.

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Let me know if you need the bus fare, Ned.

What did happen is Chapala took over its own property tax revenues for the reasons they stated.  Since by their own statement they have a very good property tax base they did the smart thing.  Besides which, without the state handling and scrutiny it gets easier to make "creative" use of the money, eh?  :D

The increase would be seen in the bills being paid now as the reassessments were going on in August of last year.  Check the date of the story.

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2 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Let me know if you need the bus fare, Ned.

What did happen is Chapala took over its own property tax revenues for the reasons they stated.  Since by their own statement they have a very good property tax base they did the smart thing.  Besides which, without the state handling and scrutiny it gets easier to make "creative" use of the money, eh?  :D

The increase would be seen in the bills being paid now as the reassessments were going on in August of last year.  Check the date of the story.

Your vaunted audit please if it exists. Please stop deflecting. My rent didn't increase which probably means that my landlady's taxes didn't or very little. Not only did I see the date but golly I read the  hard copy of the Reporter every week.

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Just trying to help you understand the basics.  I'll assume you forgot Chapala took over property tax collection directly but I would hope you would take their word for it since you have so much faith in them.

When I read your posts I am reminded of a conversation I had with a quite prominent local Mexican businessman about the Chapala government and the fairy land that some expats live in.  He said not only does the Mexican community know full well how corrupt it is, including the ones who feed off of it, it is a source of some amazement and humor that so many of the "gringo" community are so clueless about it despite the evidence right there in front of them every day.

At least I'm glad to report that after two long years, trash pickup here seems to be getting more reliable.  Of course that isn't connected along with the sudden spate of projects after years of little or nothing to the upcoming election.  :)

With any luck you'll get that Bridge To Jesus finished and remove that glaring eyesore from your otherwise pristine Malecon.

It's not my audit, it was done by qualified local Mexican professionals.  I'm not sure what the folks behind the audit intend to do with it in this election year, suffice to say they are on the side of reform and better government which we sure don't have now. 

Sorry I can't help you.  As I said, just get on the bus and open your eyes.  I would feel bad if you fell off the bike trying to do this.  :D

 

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Politics and snarkiness aside, how is the weather? Is the butter still salted, or not? How old is too old, and why? Is a cohete something to fear? What is a castillo in a house, and one on a plaza? Who is the best dentist, and does he also do plastic surgery? And, is a pinche gringo different from a pinche %%%?

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Cold, Bob, cold.  And way too much cloudy this year.

Butter comes from Costco either way. 

Around here, mostly too old or dead.  Our standard is whether we are on the right side of the dirt each morning.  :)

Dentist?  Your excellent recommendation, our dentist:  Eloy Barrigan.  You would love his new digs, absolutely first class.

Too far gone for plastic surgery, can't help you there.  :)

All the best to you, too bad you can't come for a visit!

 

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