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Proper Christmas bonus for maid and gardner?


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Isn't it a little early to be hitting the sauce, Pops? 

The problem with expats who adopt a "more Mexican than thou" attitude is that they seem to operate on the assumption that no one else notices what's going on around him/her, hasn't the slightest idea

Exactly!  This is my first year with a household worker, so I researched to try to do it correctly.  We had the employee sign for the aguinaldo and the vacation pay (just as we have him sign for his w

The above is statutorily required and a gift would be in addition to what is actually their pay whether they do a god job or not. I pay the standard vacation pay and double the aguinaldo (xmas bonus) for my part-time maid.

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It's not a "bonus," it's a legal requirement.  Both the aguinaldo and vacation pay.  And yes, Rolly is off to greener pastures, but his formula is correct.  Have your employees sign a receipt for them.  Gifts of any nature are up to you and greatly appreciated, but don't confuse the two.  

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If you don't give enough they'll refer to you as .. a lo chino.  Not good.  Giving too much is also not good because I've never seen a people in my life who will grab on to a precedent faster.  Personally I'd give a month's pay .. if I liked them.  Why not?  Christmas only comes once a year.

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8 hours ago, modeeper said:

If you don't give enough they'll refer to you as .. a lo chino.  Not good.  Giving too much is also not good because I've never seen a people in my life who will grab on to a precedent faster.  Personally I'd give a month's pay .. if I liked them.  Why not?  Christmas only comes once a year.

You say giving too much is not good, and then say you'd give them a month's pay, which is about double what is the legal requirement. Doesn't make much sense.

There is no "enough" or "too much"- just follow the legal requirements. If one has an employee they feel they want to give more to as a bonus, do the legal requirement, have them sign that they received that, and then give them extra apart from that. Keeps it clean and proper.

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Giving too much is not good because they'll expect it next year and the next.  But I don't care.  If I didn't like or want them as help they wouldn't be there.  Were I an impoverished gardener or house keeper I would want as much as I could get.  Who cares what the law says or what the norms are.  You are in country where the government couldn't give a toss about the people.  Show them you're better than that I say. 

I did some property management in Oaxaca years ago.  My first act there at the estate was to double the workers income.  I was soon met by the local Gringo contingent who scolded me saying I had ruined the local economy.  

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According to my friend who is a lawyer with the federal labor court as well as the article in the most recent Guadalajara Reporter, the aguinaldo is TWO WEEKS pay, not 2.14 or some other complicated formula.  I believe the confusion is the fact that Mexican Spanish refers to "two weeks" as "quince dias.". 

The formula for vacation pay is more complicated depending on how many days the employee worked during the past year and how many years they have worked for you.

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1 hour ago, El Saltos said:

The law says 15 days pay.

I agree.  

BTW, when we lived in Bisbee (a few miles from the Sonoran border), Mexican workers were paid on the 1st and the 15th of the month, not weekly.  Maybe the reason for the 15 days pay requirement???

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On ‎20‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:55 PM, modeeper said:

  You are in country where the government couldn't give a toss about the people.  Show them you're better than that I say. 

 

I guess a person living in Mexico for 36 years would miss most of the things the Mexican government does to care for it´s citizen if they were not observant.

!. subsidized residential electric KWH costs. [very very inexpensive for most people]

2. low [very very low] property taxes.

3. free or empolyer paid sociaized medicine for all citizens or legal residents [some families will pay a fee per year, but 98% don´t]

4. federal $1,150 pesos every 2 months for citizens 65 and older - SEDESOL

5. free federal orphanages.

6. free  federal old folks homes.

7. federal comsumer protection PROFECA

8. federal food and seed packages to indigeniuos villages by federal DIF and free crop cultivation, livestock rearing and structure building training etc.

9. Free federal meals for preschool and elementary schools in poorer areas

10. free childrens  cancer treatment by private foundations by top specialists.

11. banking regulations

12. federal pharmaceutical prices regulated

13. federal mínimum wage

14. year end manditory employee payment - aguinaldo

15. triple pay for federal holidays worked

16. strong renter rights legislation

17. strong emloyees rights legislation and high manditory severance pay

18. telecomunication legislation to regulate costs - cheap here now

19 free federal alcohol and drug rehabs DIF

20. manditory public school attendance

21. liberal federal Immigration laws

22. lots of paid holidays for government employees and 4 month maternity leave and 3 months for the private sector employees with a guarantee that their job is still waiting for them.

23. limited liability laws to make many things less expensive

24. federal  IMSS pension and disability payments for workers

25. strong federal workers rights legislation

26. federal child support laws and property división laws

27. federal funded free state university education for students who have entrance test grades high enough.

28. 14,000 federal government and private sector [Carlos Slim etc.] funded BECAL university scholarships in 2017 - some to Harvard University. [The National Program of Postgraduate Scholarships Abroad for the Strengthening of Research, Innovation and Education  aims to increase the level of knowledge generation and the application of such knowledge in the areas of Science and Technology in ...]

I could go on but you get the picture, I presume.

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3 minutes ago, Bisbee Gal said:

I agree.  

BTW, when we lived in Bisbee (a few miles from the Sonoran border), Mexican workers were paid on the 1st and the 15th of the month, not weekly.  Maybe the reason for the 15 days pay requirement???

Most full-time and contract employees are paid that way. But the lady that takes care of my house comes twice a week, and I pay her every week.

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9 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

Most full-time and contract employees are paid that way. But the lady that takes care of my house comes twice a week, and I pay her every week.

Yes, everyone here (that I know) pays their household workers weekly.  But going back to the law, it could be the 15 days legal requirement is due to the more traditional Mexican bi-monthly paydays.  

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Here is the law from the MX government website, followed by a rather poor google translation.  However, the 15 days minimum and the BEFORE 20th of December is quite clear.

http://www.stps.gob.mx/saladeprensa/actividades_2008/diciembre/15DICIEMBRE.htm

Quote

 

Quote

 

Generalities

The annual bonus is an annual benefit enshrined in Article 87 of the Federal Labor Law, which consists of at least 15 days of salary, which must be covered before December 20 of each year.

Workers who have not completed the year of service, regardless of whether they are working or not on the date of liquidation of the bonus, will be entitled to be paid the proportional part thereof, according to the time they have worked, whatever it may be. 


Particularities

Right to the bonus.- All workers are entitled to the payment of the bonus, provided that there is indeed an employment relationship, regardless of the act that gives rise to it. Work relationship is the provision of a personal work subordinated to a person, through the payment of a salary.

Minimum amount.- The bonus consists of at least 15 days of salary, notwithstanding that individually or collectively, the parties to the employment relationship have agreed a sum higher than that provided for in the labor regulations.

 

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4 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

I guess a person living in Mexico for 36 years would miss most of the things the Mexican government does to care for it´s citizen if they were not observant.

!. subsidized residential electric KWH costs. [very very inexpensive for most people]

2. low [very very low] property taxes.

3. free or empolyer paid sociaized medicine for all citizens or legal residents [some families will pay a fee per year, but 98% don´t]

4. federal $1,000 pesos every 2 months for citizens 70 and older - SEDESOL

5. free federal orphanages.

6. free  federal old folks homes.

7. federal comsumer protection PROFECA

8. federal food and seed packages to indigeniuos villages by federal DIF and free crop cultivation, livestock rearing and structure building training etc.

9. Free federal meals for preschool and elementary schools in poorer areas

10. free childrens  cancer treatment by private foundations by top specialists.

11. banking regulations

12. federal pharmaceutical prices regulated

13. federal mínimum wage

14. year end manditory employee payment - aguinaldo

15. triple pay for federal holidays worked

16. strong renter rights legislation

17. strong emloyees rights legislation and high manditory severance pay

18. telecomunication legislation to regulate costs - cheap here now

19 free federal alcohol and drug rehabs DIF

20. manditory public school attendance

21. liberal federal Immigration laws

22. lots of paid holidays for government employees and 4 month maternity leave and 3 months for the private sector employees with a guarantee that their job is still waiting for them.

23. lilmited liability laws to make many things less expensive

24. federal  IMSS pension and disability payments for workers

25. strong federal workers rights legislation

26. federal child support laws and property división laws

27. federal funded free state university education for students who have entrance test grades high enough.

28. 14,000 federal government and private sector [Carlos Slim etc.] funded BECAL university scholarships in 2017 - some to Harvard University. [The National Program of Postgraduate Scholarships Abroad for the Strengthening of Research, Innovation and Education  aims to increase the level of knowledge generation and the application of such knowledge in the areas of Science and Technology in ...]

I could go on but you get the picture, I presume.

There's too much there to take it point by point.  

I've been teaching English here or my entire stay.  I specialized in conversation.  Conversation classes need a daily array of themes.  I'd say I've had about 300 doctors, 200 lawyers and the rest business men and women, many grad students planing to study abroad, many teachers.  Children don't enroll.  I learned so much about those occupation and the politics behind them, to the extent I felt guilty charging my student. As to say, I probably learned more from them than they from me.

First off the government has good reason to keep prices on some services low.  Good reason to control the price of tortillas and rice, milk and more.  Remember Mexico has had 30-some Constitutions and how many revolutions?  But ask yourself why is petro at least 3X more in Mexico than in Texas?  There are queues at boarder crossing for miles .. people want to cross to buy gasoline.  Like the Canadians want to go to Kmart to buy ciggies and liquor.  Not to mention Americans who want pharmaceuticals in Mexican border towns.  The price of petro is steadfast, no discounts.   The border drugstores can charge whatever they want, why?

Point being hungry people revolt.  Mexicans are born revolutionaries. 

Doctors fresh out of med school--where grades are for sale--do the internship as in America.  Then they do 4 years of public service at an extremely low wage.   The pattern repeats itself for teachers, 5 years of study, a number of years of public service and enjoy a starting wage of about 5-6000 per month after all that.  

I like seeing a doctor for a fee of 30mxn.  But what you get for that 30, in most cases, is an Rx.  They might send you to a lab or some specialist which is on your dime and be assured the lab, or whomever, owes the doctor a kickback.

Now the police.  The via patrol in GDL earn about 7-8000.  About the same as NCOs in the military.  Not bad considering that's more than a teacher after 5 years at a uni, 2 years of practicum and 2 years of public service.  Get my drift?  Strength and bullying power positions are well favoured over loving caring educators, nurses, social workers.  Why?  In case there's a bang bang teachers are known to be bad shots.

Why shouldn't public services be cheap?  The government has no investment in their coming to be nor their maintenance.  Everybody happy .. no bang bang.

In my 3 years in this pueblo there have been three murders  ... that I know of.  How many were investigated?   None.  If you want an investigation you pay an investigator, who isn't necessary a police officer.

Rent is cheap cause property is cheap, logical.  But the Fideicomisos  are not so cheap.  Depends on one's connections. 

As for pensions, I know lots of retired teachers.  One friend after 30 years of crowd control in a secondary school gets 1,500 a month.

Another way the government maintains control is found in that oh so ubiquitous saying, ni modo.  The folks are so beaten down for so many years they can't conceive a remedy. 

7. federal comsumer protection PROFECA. This one made me laugh.  In court disputes the winners are ALWAYS the deepest pockets or the best connected (aka palanca).  

Your copy/paste is riddled with holes and hidden agendas, and idealistic propaganda, generally what the ruling body wants the World to believe.  As I said, the government couldn't give a toss about the people. Minimum services are met as a means to avoid their taking up arms.  

Something you might have missed in your time here is that you're living in one of the top 5 most corrupt nations in the World, snowflake.

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modeeper your reply makes about as much sense to me as your lack of understanding of what makes any government [my quote above and a list I concocted]  "does to care for it´s citizen" and your quote:  "You are in country where the government couldn't give a toss about the people.  Show them you're better than that I say." 

To actually state your way of pretending to know everything many Mexicans experience and feel and appear to have  lived in the jungle with  long benign Marxist revolutionaries and see the great injustice the Mexican government is doing now and has been doing all along [by the way gas, diésel and propane  here was 1/4 the price of the US for many decades]  and us others living in cities taking in the overall good things Mexico has is refreshingly comical to me. Ja Ja Ja.

 

What´s next;  quotes from Anabel Hernandez ? :P

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Our maid and gardener both work 2 days/week, so the 2.14 calculations work out very closely to 3 weeks salary. We pay 3 weeks plus give them a decent basket (ham, nibbles, whatever) and a bottle of some decent beverage. For us, it's just a slightly extra touch to show our thanks. At the very minimum, go with the RollyBrook site. He's gone, as has been mentioned, but his wisdom remains. Happy Holidays to all!

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^^ Yes, it is comical if you don't leave your house.  

Now you're posted something I can really bite into.    It's number 20.

20. manditory public school attendance.  Boy is this loaded with propaganda!

First, Mexico has a no student fail policy.  Nobody flunks. No student repeats a grade level.  So a dullard can sit there until passing the 6th grade without ever cracking, owning, borrowing a book.

Second,  It's easy to circumvent that 6th grade requirement.  You go to the district office, or DFF, and plead poverty, the child is needed in the work force..

Third, The average level of education in this nation tops out at the 5th grade.  Proof about 20% never attend the 6th.

Forth, Elementary education is very good here.  In fact a Mexican child who migrates to the USA is often placed in a one to two-year advanced grade level.  

Fifth, Children who graduate from public schools are children who never attended private schools.  Little chance their family could afford any universities or prepas with any sort of status.  Maybe UNAM, they are socially conscious but with wait lists that'd rival Harvard.

Six, I was shocked when starting my career to learn students are often ashamed of being top in their class, ashamed of earning good marks.  One, it makes them appear corrupt as grades can be bought, and Two, Kids don't want to stand out, they want to be equal to their friends.

One shining fact is the DFF.  I went there once to report my whore neighbor and how she brought her johns home and shagged them with little privacy, as her kids were always present.   I had a string of observations and went through them one by one.  The official there at the DFF looked bored and I could see she wanted me to get over with it.  Then I mentioned the kids only attended classes twice a week at most.

She flew from her desk chair, grabbed a notebook and demanded her address.  They arrived to her house about a hour latter.  They removed her children and kept them for days.  The kids never missed school after that.

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8 minutes ago, Tingting said:

Our maid and gardener both work 2 days/week, so the 2.14 calculations work out very closely to 3 weeks salary. We pay 3 weeks plus give them a decent basket (ham, nibbles, whatever) and a bottle of some decent beverage. For us, it's just a slightly extra touch to show our thanks. At the very minimum, go with the RollyBrook site. He's gone, as has been mentioned, but his wisdom remains. Happy Holidays to all!

It doesn't matter how many days a week your employees work- the formula should work out to just a little over 2 weeks pay if you have done the calculation correctly.

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