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Ajijic Charro Ring last two sundays


HarryB
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I talked to the president of the charros about the last two sundays. He said these events were by the Chapala municipal office and he himself asked them to turn it down and they ignored him. The charros have no control over these people - the charros are told they will lose the ring as it is a municipal property.

 

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1 hour ago, HarryB said:

I talked to the president of the charros about the last two sundays. He said these events were by the Chapala municipal office and he himself asked them to turn it down and they ignored him. The charros have no control over these people - the charros are told they will lose the ring as it is a municipal property.

 

???

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the charros are told they will lose the ring as it is a municipal property.

This is actually the part of the statement that I don't understand.

Every town (municipality) has a bullring/rodeo, and I have yet to meet a charro who owns the property.

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I heard it from behind El Barco.. 

Maybe if the local Mexican community complained about instead of the local gringo community something might happen.. But then again maybe the Mexican community enjoy these events and want them to continue as they have been going on for more than ten years... Despite Harry's efforts to stop them...

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Not trying to be catty - just wondering: have those of you who have had noise issues here in the area tried white noise?  I have found that one fan blocks the firework/thunder noise that freaks out my dog and it even worked to drown out a really loud party a few house down last week. All the cement makes the white noise echo nicely. Years ago it did take me a week or two to get use to it after I started using it to cover the noise from Houston's soccer stadium that I lived one block away from. But once I was use to it - heaven. 

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3 hours ago, TheBestSideOfTheWall said:

Not trying to be catty - just wondering: have those of you who have had noise issues here in the area tried white noise?  I have found that one fan blocks the firework/thunder noise that freaks out my dog and it even worked to drown out a really loud party a few house down last week. All the cement makes the white noise echo nicely. Years ago it did take me a week or two to get use to it after I started using it to cover the noise from Houston's soccer stadium that I lived one block away from. But once I was use to it - heaven. 

We live 2-3 blocks south of the bullring and a block west. We used white noise:  ceiling fan and a floor fan. Our windows were closed and our heavy weight curtains were taken out of their tie-backs and pulled in to meet at the middle of our windows. And I was watching video on my new iPad with good speakers. We could still hear the music.

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1 hour ago, kbleitch said:

We live 2-3 blocks south of the bullring and a block west. We used white noise:  ceiling fan and a floor fan. Our windows were closed and our heavy weight curtains were taken out of their tie-backs and pulled in to meet at the middle of our windows. And I was watching video on my new iPad with good speakers. We could still hear the music.

Bummer. I guess I’ll take rowdy soccer fan noise over rodeo noise. Sorry you have to deal with that. Noise pollution can drive a person batty. 

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On 11/14/2017 at 3:56 PM, TelsZ4 said:

I heard it from behind El Barco.. 

Maybe if the local Mexican community complained about instead of the local gringo community something might happen.. But then again maybe the Mexican community enjoy these events and want them to continue as they have been going on for more than ten years... Despite Harry's efforts to stop them...

I live very near the Lienzo as well as Plaza Bugambilia and El Barco - the Devil's Triangle of Noise in Ajijic, plus I have almost 20 solid years of professional performance experience utilizing amplified sound.  The problem is that seemingly no one in MX knows proper use of the amplification equipment and they are using bigger equipment every year for the same size audiences.  It is a technological ignorance problem.  Yes, the banda concerts (where there is also a lot of dancing) are a big part of the charro and the local culture.  But now, the headliners play at major stadium volume levels when they are in a small town venue so the sound travels very far and is quite unbearable to those who are close.  That is just plain unprofessional and stupid.  They don't even consider how far the sound waves travel and that they are invading people's own homes and disrupting their private lives.  That is outlawed up north and always has been.

White noise machines, etc., are not a solution to the problem for the MX people who are just as aggravated by the noise as everyone else.  They can't afford such things or get up and move somewhere else.  I listen to utube sleep videos with earplugs myself.  But my MX neighbors don't even have internet connections.  And earplugs don't work when you have a family - no one can hear eachother.

As I have stated on other related noise threads, the people - Mexicans and gringos must organize together - and that will require that at least some of the gringos speak Spanish - to coordinate complaints.  The goal is not to stop the traditions, but simply to get the sound engineers and bandas to use a suitable level of sound for the venue that they are actually playing in.  If that is over their heads, they should get into a different line of work.  Or, it is possible that some of these involved parties are already going deaf so they keep turning things louder and louder.  I would be willing to speak with the sound engineers/producers/other bosses if someone could arrange the meeting.  My experience should count for a lot.  Plus I had a very mutually enjoyable conversation with one of MX leading sound engineers in San Miguel as a loud concert was set up in their plaza.  But I might need bodyguards as I am female and that might threaten their macho, so sorry guys....

Unfortunately, the government guys know nothing about these technicalities either, and regard the noise issue as simply an irritant to them.  All they care about is the permit money they get and they have no solutions to offer.

In Guadalajara, there is a huge backlash against the noise evidenced in a new organization that operates partially through FB called cruzadacontraelruido with around 24,500 likes on their page.  They have had some success in fighting the rampant noise problems there.  A few months ago around 60 bars were suddenly closed due to noise violations but the overall outcome is not clear.  Chapala needs to know that people here feel the same way.   The noisy bar situation has improved in my area but now we have a gym with loud classes and other recreational noise going on early morning and sometimes late at night.  And you never know when or where the next noisy bar is going to open.

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From 3 blocks away at midnight on a Sunday we measured 85db immediately outside of our bedroom.

Quote
Car wash at 20 ft (89 dB); propeller plane flyover at 1000 ft (88 dB); diesel truck 40 mph at 50 ft (84 dB); diesel train at 45 mph at 100 ft (83 dB). Food blender (88 dB); milling machine (85 dB); garbage disposal (80 dB). 2 times as loud as 70 dB. Possible damage in 8 hour exposure.

Comparitive Examples of Noise Levels | Industrial Noise Control

www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm

That is acoustic thuggery and gross noise pollution in my view.  Yes, we've had these concerts before San Andreas previously but never this late or loud on a Sunday night when people have to get up and go to work and school in the morning. 

Just more use and abuse of Ajijic by the Chapala government.  

 

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On 11/14/2017 at 8:09 AM, HarryB said:

I talked to the president of the charros about the last two sundays. He said these events were by the Chapala municipal office and he himself asked them to turn it down and they ignored him. The charros have no control over these people - the charros are told they will lose the ring as it is a municipal property.

 

Monday, a holiday, yet another loud banda concert/charro evento after the last 2 Sundays very loud....???  Harry, now I'm really curious.  Exactly who is putting on these events at the Lienzo Charro?  2 days in a row with much more to come, this is insane!  What is the Charro's Assn. relationship to the Lienzo?  They have "no control" over what happens there?  Does Chapala put on these Sunday night concerts???  Can you get us more info???  Muchisimas gracias!!!  

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I’m posting on the topic about a 9 day celebration of non stop entertainment. Is this the same noise uh umm music entertainment that were all listening too? Because this area has become one solid party in less than a year and they’re putting those speakers to good use! Definitely money makers for the the party until 4 crowd. I’m certain I would have noticed this last year but this year it’s becoming non stop action. 

Im still new. I’ve lived here for three years but in the last year there’s been some upgrades. I’ve lived outside US for 18 years so I’m not comparing this to anything particular. I say this because i see things for what they are and not what I’m sold or fed like I’m Fresh Off Thr Boat. it’s obvious this is a fast moving money-making opportunity. These boys are not from around here and have done this before. That sound system is made for Woodstock and not some small event, Thats no small town set up. I bought headphones and turn the tv on full blast and still I can here the singer or screamer counting numbers and screaming aye aye aye for hours. But nothings can stop vibrations that come with that top of the line sound system. I’m all for cultural expression and living then Mexican experiencing. But this is abuse and exploitation of a small town by a few individuals looking turn a profit. They are spending money on those speakers and definitely don’t care about a quality show. 

It’s an issue that needs to be  addressed. I’m familiar with the drill and signing a petition or filing a complaint will not work. If nothing can be done then I guess we did our best and wait until the party burns.out or stops turning a profit. But I’d like to try something. I’m still up even though it fizzled out hours ago expecting the same grand finale that ended last night. I was planning on going over tonight to see if there were actually a local crowd enjoying the concert. But tonight’s performance seemed to end sooner than I expected.

If I’m missing something then tell me. I’m not trying to change a popular local tradition and impose my personal values or culture views just because it doesn’t agree with my way of life. I’m not that guy. I’m just trying to figure out what my nightly 7pm church bells are being replaced by nad attempt at music and and when can innhave them back, 

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The "Mexican culture" yarn is just a bunch of nonsense spouted by a few clueless expats and the people making money off the noise IMHO.  Let's look at the latest round of sleep shattering over amplified racket:

Is it being put on in the middle of the Mexican community?  In this municipio that is Chapala.  No, it is being put on in the middle of east Ajijic/La Floresta, largely an expat area.

Who do you see attending?  The locals?  No, if you actually go out and see where the crowds are coming from they are coming from out of the area in a lot of nice cars and buses. 

Who are the promoters?  Not from here apparently.  They didn't even bother to advertise these concerts around here, you don't see the advertising wall on the carretera painted for it and you don't see posters on the telephone polls locally.  Nor do you hear the advertising cars/trucks going around the local streets soliciting customers.  It is nonsense to pretend this is being done to "give" the local Mexican community anything. 

This is pay for play and it is put on by outsiders for outsiders.

I am told by prominent local Mexicans that what is going on here is a sweetheart deal between our abusive local government and promoters to bring in concerts and customers from GDL and elsewhere and they know they can get away with it here.  As you know, this sort of thing has largely been shut down in GDL and of course our municipio doesn't want it in the only town that matters to them (except at property tax collection time), Chapala.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this is also retaliation by the Chapala government against La Floresta and Ajijic for stopping the high rise towers, trying to get a recall election, and roasting them about their failure to provide basic services here.  There is a reason it has drawn censure from a Jalisco government that isn't much better and there is a reason why the Mexican community tried to unseat this government and is mounting a serious reform effort.

What I know for certain after 10 years here is the racket is escalating, the pot holes are proliferating and the streets are getting trashier and trashier.  A visit to other heavily touristed towns in this area reveals a jarring contrast between the quality of services in those locales versus here.. 

This is a very badly run and corrupt municipio by any standard and they view Ajijic as a cash cow and a place where they can operate with near total impunity.

And they do.

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Ok. So this the cultural celebration that has been celebrated for years filled tradition as expressed so eloquently on the other thread, Because I want that one. I think it’s sounds like fun. Sign me up! Im lost. Are we on the same festival schedule? Because what I’m listening to the last nights is nothing but greed and extortion of a small town? Sorry to offend the fans. Are these one and the same? 

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The "party" -- which is actually a religious festival -- will be lasting 16 days this year in this "tourist town" (whatever that is) / "expat area" (which it's not -- it's Mexican). So have fun!

http://semanariolaguna.com/32733/

The music that was here a couple weeks back was a national act, Chuy Lizarraga. It was advertised heavily. He plays in little bullrings all over Mexico as well as in bigger cities, which you can clearly see in the advertisements. (Check out their Facebook page.) They, of course, are not "from around here." And so? Most of the people who bought tickets for the show were from Ajijic or the neighboring towns. Anyone (Mexican) who wanted a ticket could easily buy one and many, many locals go to these events. Just 'cause you don't have any Mexican friends on Facebook posting live streams of the concert while it's actually going on, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Maincoons has entirely mischaracterized just about everything, including equating these events to "raves." I'm quite dubious he's ever been to one of those. But he's obviously never been to the rodeo.

Anyway, the general consensus among the Mexican crowd (just so everyone knows) is that you guys complain a lot about stuff, like the fiestas. This was just voluntarily confirmed to me (for the bazillionth time) last night by someone specifically regarding the noise and the fiestas.

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Hey fickleoie, I live about as far up the hill in Ajijic as one can live and almost never does the very loud music in town reach up this far. I have talked to several younger folks who attending these events and all said that they had a great time and that the loud music was not a problem. I asked them if the music was a little bit less loud would be a problem, and most of them said no. That it was so loud that it didn't matter if it were turned down "a little bit", but it shouldn't be turned down too much.

When talking to persons of retirement age, who live close to an event, it didn't matter what country they were from, most found the music way too loud.

Thank God, I don't live close to any very loud events. Oh the fire works early in the morning are a little too loud, but no big deal :) :lol::P

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  38 minutes ago, ficklepie said:

Maincoons has entirely mischaracterized just about everything, including equating these events to "raves." I'm quite dubious he's ever been to one of those. But he's obviously never been to the rodeo.

Wrong on both counts.  We had a rave next to the bull ring also 3 blocks from my house.  Believe me, that was like being there.  Been to plenty of rodeos without being deafened too.  Had two raves in one year in this town thanks to the Chapala government, massive littering, crime and drunks and druggies all over the place, were you here for either?  I doubt it. 

The Mexican community was so hacked they demonstrated at city hall.  You missed that part too, apparently.  Believe it or not I don't think the local parents are keen on their kids being attracted to that sort of thing.

These events aren't about our local fiesta which seems to have been hijacked by outsiders with the complicity of the Chapala government.  This is no longer a local celebration.  This has become an event by outsiders for outsiders who come here and raise all sorts of hell because they are allowed to get away with it for fun and mutual profit with the folks issuing the permits.

You haven't a clue who was buying the tickets.  Who belonged to all those buses and expensive cars?  The locals?  I don't think so.  A national band isn't coming here to play for the locals.

85 db in my bedroom from 3 blocks away at 12:30AM on a Sunday night a week before San Andreas hasn't anything to do with a local celebration of Ajijic's patron saint.  It is gross environmental pollution for profit and nothing else.  Sorry but I don't think that subjecting the young people to permanently ear damaging levels of volume, let alone the rest of us, is "doing something for the Mexican community."  I think it is just public pollution for private profit and nothing more.

 

 

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I’m not too with familiar FB friends. I usually like to meet people in person so there’s obviously some people who are very culturally accepting of this tradition that are posting on FB. Question, on my way church today i said hola to a young man sitting on the corner I’ve never seen before but I noticed his friend eyeing me the previous day and knew the scene from my years of teaching in the mission district SF. They probably have a stream on FB if you’re interested. For those who aren’t aware of the culture of the district it’s oozing with culture. Well I’m pretty sure he was selling drugs because he wanted to know what I needed and how much. It was in Spanish. And from my shopping experiences” how much” comes with selling something. Then the lookout came over because it looked like I was a buyer. I’ve never been able to purchase drugs even when I wanted drugs. In the states I’m usually pegged as an undercover cop. Or in Mexico I can’t get pain meds for the life of me when I’m standing in line with a separated shoulder. If I new I could by drugs on my way to church then I certainly would have been a buying customer when I was in pain. But now I’m not looking for drugs. Just not today. I’ve never been asked before. So do I load up now for the festival. They’re good to have and hard to find. 

But im sure I’ll walk by them at least for the festival. Why leave when business is boooming! I also said hola to an old man who had some back issues. He was Mexican as well. He was just up the corner from the young salesmen. Unfortunately he was stacking trash. I asked “Why are you working so hard? “I think I said it. But he wasn’t  selling he was too busy stacking trash. He looked like he could have used some drugs. But he was too busy getting ready for the cultural festivities. I don’t think they would stream him as he obviously wasn’t too aware of the excitement of the festival. I kinda wish I knew more Spanish so I could help him understand his culture better. But he didn’t seem like he was too interested in Mexican culture as we are. 

Last question. I understand the explanation of testing sound systems in preparation. But how often do you need to test the fireworks? It’s my thinking if they work then they work right? 

Oh well. I’m still learning. And I’m not one to complain. And I guess today I learned where to buy drugs. 

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2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:
  38 minutes ago, ficklepie said:

Maincoons has entirely mischaracterized just about everything, including equating these events to "raves." I'm quite dubious he's ever been to one of those. But he's obviously never been to the rodeo.

Wrong on both counts.  We had a rave in the same place 3 blocks from my house. 

 

Nope, you're wrong Mainecoons. (In my very humble opinion because I'll probably be disappeared from this site if I don't say that.) You're wrong, in both your previous post in this thread, on many counts, and also in this latest one above which I'm only partially responding to now. And you know very well I've lived here as long as you have, and I lived in the house adjacent to yours three years ago. Yes, that was a loud music-filled event three years ago, but that was not a Rave.

The event at the lakeshore in West Ajijic below seis esquinas a month or two prior to that WAS a rave. (And yes, it was truly awful, even all the way across town.) But that was the one and only "Rave".

But I've learned, with respect, of course,  there's no point in discussing or debating anything with you. You control all of the levers and switches on Chapala.com. And you're always right.

Lastly, I hope you find a way to make peace with the local noise you'll never be able to change or make go away. Perhaps the famous quote below will help you. I hope so.

--------

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change; 
courage to change the things I can; 
and wisdom to know the difference.

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