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What happened to summer?


jrm30655

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17 minutes ago, giltner68 said:

Morons? - ok, opinions vary. However a couple of you obviously consider yourselves vastly intellectually superior to the rest of us riffraff and so I'd like to know exactly who gave you the authority to decide (for us riffraff) exactly what the perfect temperature for the world is? - and, is it documented by an authority I can recognize so I can verify the source of your authority. I'm sure you'll get back to me with the requested FOIA.

The trouble with "climate change" is that the full story of "why" has been chewed on by: some scientists with preconceptions, politicians with an agenda, greedy industrialists, conspiratory theorists, people with a bit of knowledge and a belief system, religions touting the desired "end of days" and anyone else with an opinion.  History buffs will tell you that Momma Nature alone has caused massive climate changes over the many eons this planet existed, so there's not much basis for the kind of certitude that results in a heated battle, complete with name calling........on a web board in this outpost of civilization

My personal opinion as a layperson with absolutely no scientific background is that are probably many factors involved and I'm not knowledgeable enough to make any declarations.  Peace. B).

 

 

 

 

 

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The reason so much damage was done this year (as in the last 4 years of flooding) in Houston is that it's built on a swamp with no building regulations. When you concrete over vast areas of wetlands, the rains accumulate as they cannot drain naturally. I lived there and in LA and was astonished, repeatedly, by people building in areas that could only flood. The solutions for the planet are in controlling all of the factors that impact our ability to continue to live on it, not just one.

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Way back in this thread, those were geese in that picture; not ducks.   :o

The only certainty is uncertainty.  There have been several mass extinctions on this planet, before “we“ arrived, which involved the elimination of up to 99% of all life.  It might be a bit arrogant of us to think, believe, or hope that we might survive the next one.  It might be slow, or it might be quick.  I don‘t need to look at charts or data to notice some very serious changes, since I am old enough to have experienced them personally.  They are disturbing, to say the least, and the threefold population explosion in just my lifetime may be unsustainable.  This summer?   Not a good one for many, in many places. Oh, the Northwest Passage if opening.   That should tell us something.

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I think the most interesting question is "What is the ideal temperature?"

The world was at least 1 degree C hotter 1000 years ago and it was one of the best times for humans.  Longer growing seasons, more food etc.  The population exploded.

When the last cool spell hit (the Maunder Minimum in the 12th century) the temp dropped 3-6 degrees C in less than a decade and lots of people starved.  Grain was imported from China with rats with fleas with the Plague and 25-50% of the population died.

Humanity has been around for a long time, through ups and downs in temps.  We must have survived because we are still here.

My guess is that humanity will survive nature.  Whether it can survive humanity is in doubt.

 

 

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23 hours ago, jrm30655 said:

I think the most interesting question is "What is the ideal temperature?"

The world was at least 1 degree C hotter 1000 years ago and it was one of the best times for humans.  Longer growing seasons, more food etc.  The population exploded.

When the last cool spell hit (the Maunder Minimum in the 12th century) the temp dropped 3-6 degrees C in less than a decade and lots of people starved.  Grain was imported from China with rats with fleas with the Plague and 25-50% of the population died.

Humanity has been around for a long time, through ups and downs in temps.  We must have survived because we are still here.

My guess is that humanity will survive nature.  Whether it can survive humanity is in doubt.

 

 

.
 Tree ring widths, coral growth, isotope variations in ice cores, ocean and lake sediments, cave deposits, fossils, ice cores, borehole temperatures, and glacier length records show minor warming 1,000 years ago,   but recent heating has made the earth 0.6 deg warmer than the  small warming 1,000 years ago.


240px-2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

A quick review of the last 2,000 years shows that   all 9 kinds   of temperature measurement data  show it was roughly 0.6 deg.  COLDER   1,000 years ago  than now.

Average global surface temperatures for the last 25 years have been higher than any comparable period since AD 1600.

Since 1978, we've lost over 80% of the ice in the Arctic Ocean.

Re Man's Contributions:
Prior to the Industrial Revolution, the earth had net cooling over the past 120,000 years (according to glacial ice core, cave & sediment temperature data).**

**400px-EPICA_temperature_plot.svg.png

Since 1780,   just 140 years of Industrial Revolution  driven global heating  has  completely wiped-out   the previous 120,000 years of cooling.

Notice the rapid blue spike up since man's Industrial Revolution.

Finally,   notice that burning just 1 car-tank of gasoline creates over 300 pounds of CO2 ...   and then multiply by 260 million vehicles in just the USA.

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It doesn't matter a: what the reason is, or b: what the ideal temperature is. The fact is, it's happening. And all the hindsight in the world is not going to change it. The real question is, what can we do about it? And how fast.

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44 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

It doesn't matter a: what the reason is, or b: what the ideal temperature is. The fact is, it's happening. And all the hindsight in the world is not going to change it. The real question is, what can we do about it? And how fast.

.
Start removing CO2 from the atmosphere at GigaTonne levels.

The earth got out of the last huge high-CO2 high temperature period 70 million years ago by trapping & depositing the CO2 at bottom of the oceans in the form of harmless blackboard chalk.

White Emiliania huxleyi repeatedly bloomed at the oceans' surfaces,   reflecting massive amounts of sunlight back out into space, plus they absorbed, trapped, & deposited the world's excess CO2 as up to 300 feet of harmless blackboard chalk.

Why not farm the oceans with natural Emiliania huxleyi algae, abbreviated as "EHUX" ... to use the same solution that Mother Earth used last time ?

It can be done in 40 years ...  for less cost than the $6 Trillion spent on the Afghan & Iraq wars,   and it would sink today's excess CO2 to the bottom of the near-desert deep depths  of the central-Pacific Ocean ... as harmless blackboard chalk.
 
It worked (naturally) last time ... creating


beachy1_1414698a.jpg


the White Cliffs of Dover

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2 hours ago, snowyco said:

.
 Tree ring widths, coral growth, isotope variations in ice cores, ocean and lake sediments, cave deposits, fossils, ice cores, borehole temperatures, and glacier length records show minor warming 1,000 years ago,   but recent heating has made the earth 0.6 deg warmer than the  small warming 1,000 years ago.


240px-2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

A quick review of the last 2,000 years shows that   all 9 kinds   of temperature measurement data  show it was roughly 0.6 deg.  COLDER   1,000 years ago  than now.

Average global surface temperatures for the last 25 years have been higher than any comparable period since AD 1600.

Since 1978, we've lost over 80% of the ice in the Arctic Ocean.

Re Man's Contributions:
Prior to the Industrial Revolution, the earth had net cooling over the past 120,000 years (according to glacial ice core, cave & sediment temperature data).**

**400px-EPICA_temperature_plot.svg.png

Since 1780,   just 140 years of Industrial Revolution  driven global heating  has  completely wiped-out   the previous 120,000 years of cooling.

Notice the rapid blue spike up since man's Industrial Revolution.

Finally,   notice that burning just 1 car-tank of gasoline creates over 300 pounds of CO2 ...   and then multiply by 260 million vehicles in just the USA.

I don't know, I wasn't there at the time.  However, I have seen pictures painted hundreds of years ago in some "period" where the painters did landscapes of pretty ladies in fields of flowers in France.  Those flowers don't grow there now because the climate is too cold.  Either it was warmer then or a bunch of painters were pulling a great fraud.

CO2 is what plants eat and in greenhouses, they pump it in to help the plants grow better.  It can't be totally bad stuff

 

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23 minutes ago, jrm30655 said:

I don't know, I wasn't there at the time.  However, I have seen pictures painted hundreds of years ago in some "period" where the painters did landscapes of pretty ladies in fields of flowers in France.  Those flowers don't grow there now because the climate is too cold.  Either it was warmer then or a bunch of painters were pulling a great fraud.

CO2 is what plants eat and in greenhouses, they pump it in to help the plants grow better.  It can't be totally bad stuff

 

.
Which painters ... what paintings ... what fields ?

As we saw above,  from the repeated   factually incorrect   claims above  about how it was supposedly warmer  "1,000 years ago",    our personal memories are too easily colored by  what we  want~wish~hope  that things could be.
;)



 

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26 minutes ago, jrm30655 said:

I don't know, I wasn't there at the time.  ... 

CO2 is what plants eat and in greenhouses, they pump it in to help the plants grow better.  It can't be totally bad stuff

 

.
""  CO2 is what plants eat and in greenhouses, they pump it in to help the plants grow better.  It can't be totally bad stuff " 


 Yes,   increased CO2 makes some things grow better ... like when we the high CO2 world with  3 ft Dragonflies  .... and   7 FOOT   ~flying~   COCKROACHES ...

Image result for cockroach

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The truth is we don't know and most of the projections come from computers, the same computers that have no idea where Irma will be in 3 days.  

How do you measure the temperature of the earth anyway?  With sensors every 10' sampled once a second?  We don't have enough information to know what is happening and may never have enough data points to know.

Someone points to some place and says "The ice is melting, the climate is warming".  Someone else points to another place and says "The ice is growing, we are going to freeze to death".  Both are right, both are wrong.  

We just don't know.

In my earlier days, I flew all over the world.  I have some idea just how big it is.  You can fly for hours over the oceans and some sections of the world and not see a human.  We are just not big enough or populous enough to influence the climate.  

 

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1 hour ago, ComputerGuy said:

This BS is best left to those who are experts in the field.

There are no "experts in the field".  The problem is so large that no one knows enough to be an "expert".  

Mankind has survived for many 1000s of years of climate change.  Humanity is much more like to nuke itself out of existence than die of climate change.

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50 minutes ago, jrm30655 said:

There are no "experts in the field".  The problem is so large that no one knows enough to be an "expert".  

Mankind has survived for many 1000s of years of climate change.  Humanity is much more like to nuke itself out of existence than die of climate change.

Believe what you like.

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The truth is that most of the rest of the world has figured out what is happening but in the U.S., the extractive industries have such a strangle hold over the legislative bodies and too much of the media that our "leaders" happily keep their heads in the sand and their pockets open.

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I come at this from a bit different "angle" than most of you, I require empirical evidence before I'm committed to a specific position. I'm an engineer by nature and my degree is EE which took me into aerospace and metrology where at one point I was an instructor at the Air Force primary standards facility. At that time the AF had 160 facilities all over the world, from polar ice caps to desert and teams constantly traveled to each carrying standards to calibrate the instrumentation whether it be electronic or physical. This assured that all the instruments around the world were calibrated to a primary common standard.

Now, compare the pseudo science of global warming or whatever you want to call it. How are the results the NYTimes headlines created? Well, they take data from instruments all over the world (or so they say) and then run it through computer algorithms and produce models of possible scenarios. From my education and experience I've never heard of any "standard" calibration entity traveling around the world checking the calibration of the instruments which provide the basis for all the data crunched. Probably every US State has teams that inspect and check gas pumps to make sure one gallon pumped is really one gallon, even in MX they check. So, who is the standardizing entity that assures that all temperature instruments are correct? Show me the data, and at the same time, show me the physical location of the instruments to make sure the surrounding environment isn't a significant factor in the readings recorded - then I'll be glad to consider your data, until then you have nothing more than a lot of random data.

I can move the ChapalaWeather sensors 20' and change the readings significantly. Show me empirical evidence and you have my attention, other than that you are providing governments worldwide with a political tool to transfer wealth, nothing more.

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