MEETING AGAINST THE NOISE IN GDL

[CHILLIN]

Popular music is about style over substance - always has been. Now, in the United States, hip-hop has become more popular than rock. Expect the same for Mexico. More Sr. Pitbull. Young people like to dance, go into a trance. There more wealthy ones can afford the 200 -300 peso door fees, 1,000 peso bottle fees, and at least 3,000 pesos of clothes that will get you in the door of the specially built dance clubs. They hire celebrity DJs from all over the world and make huge profits. They go to these clubs to be seen - style over substance. So what do the poorer kids do? Hang some cheap a$$ speakers in their hooptey, and buy the biggest amplifier they can find. Electronics, especially from China, are very inexpensive today.

Patron Saint fiestas - get a grip, might as well hang out with your grandma. Not that there is anything wrong with that,  just maybe not on a Saturday night.

As Pitbull would sing - don't stop the party. You can't win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0vFid2tKbI

[CHILLIN]

So tell me how many of these 45 dance clubs have been shut down?

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=danceclubs&find_loc=Guadalajara%2C+Jalisco

[CHILLIN]

Because it is fun. It is part of growing up, how you form friendships, relationships. These are not teenagers, what parent would let their teenagers roam the night, hang around OXXO stores, especially with tragic past events in this town. They are 18 to 30, having the time of their lives and only think of themselves on a Saturday night. A worldwide disorder, well maybe not in North Korea. The fact that the population of Chapala/Ajijic can't support a decent dance club/music venue, is just one more reason they can't wait to move away to the city. There are at least 12 dance clubs in Puerto Vallarta.

Still can't even come up with one club shut down in Guadalajara? Thought so. Herring - red - getting smelly.

[bill_d]

On 8/13/2017 at 2:39 PM, CHILLIN said:

So tell me how many of these 45 dance clubs have been shut down?

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=danceclubs&find_loc=Guadalajara%2C+Jalisco

My limited research seems to support your 'style' over substance to an extent in Centro. "House" music (electronic dance music) lasts all night, uses subwoofers that shake the ground and penetrate walls, doesn't respect occupancy max, changes locations when busted. 

[bmh]

funny I just returned from Oaxaca  where I attended a quinceañera fiesta.  I am talking about a party in a village here we were the only white faces. The day started at 7.30 with breakfast. When we arrived my husband was shown the men's table and I was shown to the women's table where  we were served corono beers and shots of mezcal.... then on to a reception where we congratulate the family and gave them gifts and  blessed al the food and alcohol that guests had brought. Then on to hot chocolate with a mountain of bread and doggy bags to take the leftover food. then on to a caldo de pollo with eggs and atole. The home to take the leftovers and then to church where a full brass band was awaiting us.. Fabulous music but very loud was played during the mass and them procession following the band back to the party home.. We were about 500 people.. then full mariachi band and oaxaca band taking turn at playing.. very loudly. Both bands were good  but very loud... Then the hors d'oeuvres were served around 3pm  delicious crickets with lemon and hot sauce and peanuts and more beer and mezcal.. then  a birria with more mezcal and beer then traditional indigenous dancing  where each guest had to dance with a bottle of alcohol in one hand  some  wild smelly plant in the other. The plant was used in pre hispanic days and is called   hierba de borracho. Maybe called this way because as the story goes it can be found near a river in a very deep cañon where the pressure is so low that you have to drink shots of mescal in order not to pass out..

the music went on very loud from these 2 bands until midnight , then the third band a rock band started and ended at day break ..It blasted the whole town.. No one complained as everyone was out to have a good time. There were no foreigners  around so you cannot blame the foreigners for the loudness of the band or the choice of music or say that all that music is not traditional. Everyone had a great time..

Too bad none of you guys complaining about loud music were around because the complaints would have had zero effect, the police was not called , actually they were at the party as well and the whole town was quiet for a long time in the morning so that the people who did not sleep at night could sleep in the morning, which I though was very civilized but then I alway thought Zapotecs were more civilized than most people.

[Mainecoons]

That sounds like a lot of fun.  However as a Mexican expert I'm sure you know that different communities have different standards.  This thread started with a discussion of what is going on in an equally Mexican community, Guadalajara.  Earlier, similar crackdowns in Zopopan have been reported by the Mexican press.  All of this being pushed and carried out by the Mexicans who live in those communities.

Somehow I doubt the party you went to would have happened there these days.

So what is the relevance to this area or this thread?  And why is it always that when people express different views that you have they are "complaining?"

BTW, I have a family of Zapotec artisans from Oaxaca right now staying with us and they are looking to relocate their business out of the state because it is so lawless and corrupt and all the "manefestacions" and "bloqueos" have basically destroyed tourism there. 

 

[bmh]

Yes I know that artisan too. He has a very nice family..You met him via the Feria... The party I mentioned happened on the 4th of August in a village so it is still going on. Oaxaca has its problems ... and yea it is lawless  and so is Michoacán and Guerrero and Chiapas  ..

If I am not mistaken Guadalajara is not  Chapala so I could argue that what is going on in a large city like Guadalajara is not relevant to Ajijic or Chapala so why are we talking about Guadalajara on a Chapala thread?

How is it relevant that a Oaxaca artisan is staying with you , nothing to do with Chapala either  or does it? Of course all bets are off if he relocates to Ajijic..

The tone of the thread is complaints about noise and since you have a problem on your street you made the noise campaign your own but  that campaign is not happening in Chapala either.

By the way it is "manifestaciones y bloqueos" and they are not happening Lakeside either except for a pale exemple at the airport.. 

[bmh]

Sorry  I am talking about traditional fiesta.. where everyone spoke Zapoteco  chan is how you salute people.. men and women were sitting in different sections.. Have ever been to a traditional Zapotec fiesta? I  have been to many in the last 17 years and there were mariachis from Mexico city a traditional Oaxaca brass band for the danzas and mass and a rock band for people to dance modern dances.. The music was all amplified as well and it is not different from any club music. loud amplified music is  loud no matter if it comes from a club or a tent.. No it is not apple and oranges and I am not aware of any club starting at 7.30 in the morning  serving mezcal and beer and ending 24 hours later  with 3 bands covering the whole 24 hours.. You cannot get more traditional than that village betty

young girls all get to go to a fiesta when they reach 15 , then you have the Danza de la Pluma fiestas that last from 12 pk till 6 am, they happen in July , August , September November and December and on and on and the wedding that last for a week..and the birthday parties and on and on.. So they do not have clubs but I bet they wish they had and those could come too

Thee is a reason why people living in a large city are starting to rebel, the culture is noisy  and the more people and the more chances for noise..

 

[bmh]

no you do not know about these festivals they happen a lot and on a very regular basis.... Right now where we are we had loud cohetes every single day since we arrived 2 months ago.. I am hoping today will be the last day since we are the 15th of August but I would not bet on it. The cohetes start at 5am and go on until midnight.. We are surrounded by churches so we get it in surround sound.. This culture is a culture where noise is part of life like it or not...Clubs are just the latest addition.. How about the loud speakers with town announcements or the tires stores advertising whatever and blasting noise all day long on the street..  those are not clubs and can be extremely long as well..

Each barrio has its saints and festival and we have more than 30 something barrio, enough to last the whole year everyday  of the year.. Thanks God some barrios are far enough that we do not hear them but believe me it is plenty noisy.

All of this racket is not better than clubs . lets not forget the serenades n the middle of the night  as well.... 

[pappysmarket]

You have provided a valuable service to any locals who ever thought about moving. Gracias

[pappysmarket]

13 minutes ago, betty7 said:

bad comparism. we do not have that many all night festivals here. we do have loud rock events. both guad & chapala do not want this & guad has noice  laws. if it is not to your liking you can contest this, as the petitions were signed by the mexicans. since you are so involved, go & talk to them. explain the culture of other towns. see how if you can get more permits for 3 day parties here. good luck. city hall will love you, but you wont be too popular w/the locals.

Sorry betty I was referring to any Lakesiders thinking of moving to where bmh is.

[bmh]

betty  we have louder than lou rockets in San Cristobal and quiet in Ajijic.. and that is the way it is .. I have a choice I do not have to be in Chiapas in July or August.. I have a choice to do not have to accept an invitation to long and loud parties. we are lucky in Ajijic and the place is quiet not everyone is that lucky.. there are pluses and minuses everywhere . 

Yes pappysmarket, locals wanting to move there are forewarned it is noisy because of the cohetes and serenades and dead quiet in between.. Noise is what it is and our neighbors are pretty respectful  otherwise.  We have zero regrets and are not planning to move for any reason.

The other place is an indigenous town in Oaxaca and it is dead quiet when it is not noisy..

[Mainecoons]

13 hours ago, bmh said:

Yes I know that artisan too. He has a very nice family..You met him via the Feria... The party I mentioned happened on the 4th of August in a village so it is still going on. Oaxaca has its problems ... and yea it is lawless  and so is Michoacán and Guerrero and Chiapas  ..

If I am not mistaken Guadalajara is not  Chapala so I could argue that what is going on in a large city like Guadalajara is not relevant to Ajijic or Chapala so why are we talking about Guadalajara on a Chapala thread?

How is it relevant that a Oaxaca artisan is staying with you , nothing to do with Chapala either  or does it? Of course all bets are off if he relocates to Ajijic..

The tone of the thread is complaints about noise and since you have a problem on your street you made the noise campaign your own but  that campaign is not happening in Chapala either.

By the way it is "manifestaciones y bloqueos" and they are not happening Lakeside either except for a pale exemple at the airport.. 

 

Given the influx of Guadalajarans these days one could argue we are a suburb of that town now.  So you may be mistaken to a degree.  Their community standards are increasingly relevant to ours.  Certainly much more so than Oaxaca, San Cristobal or other points far to the east of here.

The Oaxacan artisan was cited to illustrate my point that Oaxaca has drastically different community standards and a party there has little relevance to this discussion about local noise issues and standards.  I stand by that suggestion.

And no, the artisan family aren't planning to relocate to Ajijic, I didn't suggest that either.  

Once again, please stop reading things into my posts that aren't there.  I posted they are considering "moving out of state."  That means Oaxaca state.  I did not say anything about them moving here.

Thank you 

Oh and also thank you for the Spanish spelling correction.  I freely admit because of hearing and cognitive issues and just being too darned old when trying to learn I will never be very fluent in the language despite many hours of effort.  However you can rest easy as I am not a competitor in the "More Mexican Than You" local competition and I gladly cede the game to those who are.  

 

 

[Fred Habacht]

But you do win the award as most negative comments regarding this area of Mexico, in my opinion.

Fred Habacht

[bmh]

Maincoons you keep mentioning that I do not live in Ajijic.. I have lived there longer there  than you have and I pay taxes so get that in your head and  I enjoy it when I am there.

. I have to say that with all your negativity you are really not doing yourself or anyone  wanting to sell  a favor -.So if you want to  help the community stop being negative about it..You are not doing anyone any favor.

I am not sure why you would mention that ZF is planning to move out of Oaxaca...It is none of our business . The family is well known in Oaxaca and works on folk art from that area so  all of their roots and material come from there but other artists and artisans have done it .The State is on the anarchique side when you are trying to make a living.

 

13 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

 

Given the influx of Guadalajarans these days one could argue we are a suburb of that town now.  So you may be mistaken to a degree.  Their community standards are increasingly relevant to ours.  Certainly much more so than Oaxaca, San Cristobal or other points far to the east of here.

The Oaxacan artisan was cited to illustrate my point that Oaxaca has drastically different community standards and a party there has little relevance to this discussion about local noise issues and standards.  I stand by that suggestion.

And no, the artisan family aren't planning to relocate to Ajijic, I didn't suggest that either.  

Once again, please stop reading things into my posts that aren't there.  I posted they are considering "moving out of state."  That means Oaxaca state.  I did not say anything about them moving here.

Thank you 

Oh and also thank you for the Spanish spelling correction.  I freely admit because of hearing and cognitive issues and just being too darned old when trying to learn I will never be very fluent in the language despite many hours of effort.  However you can rest easy as I am not a competitor in the "More Mexican Than You" local competition and I gladly cede the game to those who are.  

 

 

 

[bmh]

Well just another gringo beaten by the system.. If people come here from abroad thinking they are going to change Mexico they are in for a disappointing time. Complaining does not change anything and the proof is in the pudding  there.

 

[Mainecoons]

1 hour ago, bmh said:

Maincoons you keep mentioning that I do not live in Ajijic.. I have lived there longer there  than you have and I pay taxes so get that in your head and  I enjoy it when I am there.

. I have to say that with all your negativity you are really not doing yourself or anyone  wanting to sell  a favor -.So if you want to  help the community stop being negative about it..You are not doing anyone any favor.

I am not sure why you would mention that ZF is planning to move out of Oaxaca...It is none of our business . The family is well known in Oaxaca and works on folk art from that area so  all of their roots and material come from there but other artists and artisans have done it .The State is on the anarchique side when you are trying to make a living.

 

 

This is an amazing demonstration of your continued confusing what is apparently going on in your head with what I post.  Please, please learn to respond to only what is written.

Quote

Maincoons you keep mentioning that I do not live in Ajijic.. I have lived there longer there  than you have and I pay taxes so get that in your head and  I enjoy it when I am there.

Astounding you posted this after directly quoting my post which does not mention this AT ALL.

14 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Given the influx of Guadalajarans these days one could argue we are a suburb of that town now.  So you may be mistaken to a degree.  Their community standards are increasingly relevant to ours.  Certainly much more so than Oaxaca, San Cristobal or other points far to the east of here.

The Oaxacan artisan was cited to illustrate my point that Oaxaca has drastically different community standards and a party there has little relevance to this discussion about local noise issues and standards.  I stand by that suggestion.

And no, the artisan family aren't planning to relocate to Ajijic, I didn't suggest that either.  

Once again, please stop reading things into my posts that aren't there.  I posted they are considering "moving out of state."  That means Oaxaca state.  I did not say anything about them moving here.

Thank you 

Also, I did not state the ZF family is planning to move.  Once again, you are reading something that isn't there and then responding to it.  Considering it or looking at it is not the same as PLANNING to do it.  If you are unclear as to the meaning of these words, please look them up and get clear about the difference between considering or looking at versus actually formulating a plan to do so.

BTW, it is also none of "our" business how we met the Fuentes family.  Please refrain from posting this kind of personal information about me or anyone else here.  This is not a gossip site.

The artisans and those who serve the now nearly defunct tourism in that area have been devastated by the anarchy and failed government there.  Many have had to resort to either leaving or trying to survive on government aid.  I am told it is so bad that Walmart/Sams Club and other important retailers have publicly stated they are considering leaving the area.

Since you chose to raise the question of where you are located on this thread, let me just say that I do read your posts carefully and it appears to me that all of them have been coming from out of this area for quite some time.  

So I have a simple question:  The trash mess got rolling here in Ajijic back in February.  Since that time have you spent more than a few days here or is my impression that you have been in San Cristobal or other location and not here.  I will be very happy to apologize if I have misread your posts and you have been here and hopefully out in the streets helping your neighbors pick up the near daily mess that has ensued as I have.

Otherwise, I'll politely suggest that maybe you've been a bit out of touch here.

Finally, I recommend a new Facebook site:  Chapala Noticias.  Very interesting story there about our local government and this pedophile ring recent broken up in Chapala.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/chapala-noticias/alcalde-de-chapala-protege-red-de-pederastas-once-niños-han-sido-abusados-sexual/1476649985756555/

Thanks.

[Mainecoons]

5 minutes ago, bmh said:

Well just another gringo beaten by the system.. If people come here from abroad thinking they are going to change Mexico they are in for a disappointing time. Complaining does not change anything and the proof is in the pudding  there.

 

Don't get your hopes up.

 

[bmh]

You are misinformed I left mid february but my husband did not so I was  informed and when he joined me a friend was staying at my house with my pets so Iwe were still informed. I was there in May and June and left in July again...  

I have always lives in 2 residences and travelled most of the time on my job.. I remodelled houses while I was travelling, I am always informed of what goes on at the place I am not living on..That is the ay I have always lived so it is a natural for me.. I do not read the local rags or the forums on Chapala , I have friends there and  they let me know what is interesting. . .

Thanks for the links , I have my own sources and do not need advice on where to find the nes. It is old news .

I really do not have any hopes on that subject but betty your modern Sancho Panza would be very disappointed if you left or gave up.. Keep up the great work!

[Xena]

BMH, this web board says it "is for people with interest in the Lakeside area." It does not say you have to live here full time (or at all) in order to post. It is ridiculous for another poster to bully you into justifying your right to offer your opinion here just because he disagrees with it. It is even more ridiculous for that poster to say only people who live in Ajijic can comment on Ajijic topics. It is shameful that this bullying is allowed. Please never again feel you need to justify or explain your right to comment here. 

[johanson]

I try never to get into these debates because they sadden me. I guess it is normal not to always agree 100% with what most anyone posts. And I don't. I choose not to post about what I do not like about someone but to when ever possible only comment on the good side of a person.

In fact I have always posted under my real name to ensure that I do not post some of my negative thoughts.. Many folks are attacking Mainecoons and he does respond back. Rather than trying to find the bad in him or anyone else I would like to post some of the good instead.

So I would like to highjack this topic and say, one of the reasons we have so little graffiti in Ajijic is because of Mainecoons's leadership and all of the hours he has spent painting over the graffiti on our streets over the last 10 or more years. He taught me that when the occasional street gang mark went up on my exterior wall, that I should immediately remove it. And by following his advice, the gang has stopped putting it's ownership of the street marks on my property.

Thank you Mainecoones for all of your efforts to keep our streets free of graffiti

[Fred Habacht]

Many people that live at Lakeside give of their time and knowledge to this community and to this country.....but does a few good deeds offset any and all of the negative statements dumped out upon this audience? Does throwing your weight and influence out over this group whether they want those opinions or not....get a free pass because you can be nice and thoughtful "sometimes?"

I have learned a lot from reading this forum and I used to share a lot of what I knew...... and I have been bullied a lot as well.....sometimes I do not enjoy being bullied!

Fred Habacht

[bmh]

Xena thanks.. you are right I do not have to justify anything but since he chose to put what my schedule  public by recapping where I was I just thought it was just right to respond to all his errors..  we do not  has to live in Ajijic or on his street to participate.  

The thread on this forum have a tendency to degenerate because people are getting sick of the self righteousness of a poster /moderator. His posts are negative and are giving a bad image to the area.. Many people are getting the idea that Lakeside is full of grumpy old gringos who know nothing  expand on everything and are very nasty when it could not be further from the truth... Just like the US president  , this poster thinks that if he bullies people and  lies loudly and often enough  people will believe him. When you see who comes to his rescue you can see the man´s character: a brown nosing troll that is allowed to say whatever she wants  in whatever English she chooses to make up and a redneck from Texas who gives a bad name to Texans.  It is sometimes hard to remember how generous and nice many Texans are when you read some of the Sancho, she achieves that by Sancho Panza II posts.. By the way does he live in here.? How is this guy allowed to post here? 

He is also another bully who sent me some nasty anti French  message attacking me about my not being thankful to America for what it did during World war II. He is blocked from my PM because I do not need his xenophobic self aggrandizing statements.

Yes MC /moderator II chooses to bully people to be able to proclaim himself the king of the hill... It is all really sad.

We also had to hear how we are a burb of Guadalajara so we could justify talking about the noise abatement program like if we could not post otherwise....It is good to hear what a city does about noise and comforting to know that changes are happening  and frankly if it were happening in Mexico city or Oaxaca  it would be just as valid as it shows the traits of the culture evolving maybe too late for us to see it happen in our area but it is nice to know it is happening.

Noisy cultures like Latin cultures eventually move on to  lessen the racket , .. I know France did that in the 80´s .. The We used to have loud speakers blasting  music and advertising during festivals and that was done away with , We had all night parties  and now towns have to be quiet at 10pm.. People cannot use noisy tools  on Saturday before 8am  and none on Sunday. cultures change but slowly and it is not the foreigner s that will change Mexico but the Mexicans..

There is no point getting frustrating with the culture, it is what it is  and it is our choice to live here.so adapt or become another MC and I am sure most of us do not want to do that!!

[Mainecoons]

Well Fred, like the graffiti, the negative doesn't disappear if we stick our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.  I'm happy for you and Barbara that in Jocotepec you don't seem to have these local government problems although I encourage you and your neighbors to address the graffiti blight there.  It is gang advertising and encourages criminality and intimidation.  As I did with our neighbors in Chapala, I'd be happy to spend some time training a group of volunteers if you all want to tackle this.

And I have a question for you.  What constitutes "bullying?"  Posting like this?

Quote

It is pretty funny for a man who is always bragging about his house and wealth to say that San Cristobal is pricey.. must have been scared of eating where the locals eat.  

Not  only is this false, it is libelous.  No, I am not part of the group think around here about either local or NOB politics and I don't apologize for it.  That gets me a lot of personal attack like this from a few people here who are intolerant of diversity of opinion and immediately resort to personal attack when they are called out on posting false statements and pure nonsense and can't back them up.

I don't apologize for that either.

As I finish this, I see yet another blatant personal attack from bmh.  I'll leave it to you to handle, Pete.

 

[bmh]

oops Fred here goes the image of Jocotepec, along with San Cristóbal but do not worry you can always move to another town in Jalisco , a nice place like Tapalapa or Mazamitlan or some place in Colima..but please be careful, it is awfully close to Michoacan another really bad state along with Oaxaca , Chiapas and Guerrero..

There is a think group here?? Sure could have fooled me Maincoons.  It is pretty rich for a man who is publishing my comings and goings when he has no right or business to do so to cry  foul..Pobrecito..but not to worry Sancho Panza II will be here soon and defend his reputation.