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US retirees in Mexico face being thrown out

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22 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

Did I hear FREE? 

The program is for people who have trouble doing things possibly or are disabled, only speak a dialect not Spanish well, or can´t read or write, have no income to pay the fee or to travel etc.. The actual fee to get a certificate of Mexican nationality for foreign-born children of Mexican parents born in the national territory is $260.00 pesos if the parent/s wanted to do it themselves and had their other documents needed without the help of DIF. The CURP is free to get for parent/s and child, The INE [IFE] card is free to get for the parents. A certified copy of a Mexican birth certificate last year when my wife needed 1 for her father in our state registers office was $180.00 pesos if the parent/s don´t have one. The childs INAPAM photo ID card is for free. So even if you can do it yourseldf you are only looking at $260.00 pesos for 1 child, more for the 4 children someone metioned. INM is not envolved.

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23 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

...have no income to pay the fee or to travel etc..

In the case represented... free.

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Alan Mexicali, although that all sounds very nice, when you have no birth certificate from the U.S., and have to find a way to get a copy of it sent here, and you are uneducated and don't know how to use a computer, things are not that simple.  This mother managed to get a copy of the birth certificates for her kids a couple of years ago but then we were told that they had to go to California to be apostilled, and then translated here by an official translator, and then taken to the DIF office so the kids could be registered. DIF offered her no help with getting any of that done, and the consulate in Guadalajara gave her incorrect information about a parent in the US having to get the birth certificates apostilled.  The Prepa would absolutely not accept the boy for registration without this and told him that he would have to pay as a foreign student to attend.  So there well may be all kinds of programs in place but if DIF and the parents don't know about them, it is not much use to them.  To say that none of what I said is factual is untrue, since I have sponsored about 70 students in that Prepa and the Director therefore knows me, and told me that his mother would have to get all that paperwork done before he could attend for free. Since I was there and you were not you will simply have to accept that much at face value. :)

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THat has been our experience exactly, gimpy ! Well said.

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To those who sponsor Mexican children in obtaining education... bravo... THANK YOU! Education is hugely important in making Mexico a better country.

Also, for those transferring from American schools apostille of transcripts is at times required. But for Canadians ....  

  • School Transcripts no longer are required to be legalized for grades and/or diplomas issued by Canadian institutions of primary, middle, and high school levels for revalidation purposes in Mexico, as of June 16, 2015. Note: School transcripts of grades and/or diplomas from post-secondary institutions still require legalization for revalidation.
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On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:46 PM, gimpychimp said:

Alan Mexicali, although that all sounds very nice, when you have no birth certificate from the U.S., and have to find a way to get a copy of it sent here, and you are uneducated and don't know how to use a computer, things are not that simple.  This mother managed to get a copy of the birth certificates for her kids a couple of years ago but then we were told that they had to go to California to be apostilled, and then translated here by an official translator, and then taken to the DIF office so the kids could be registered. DIF offered her no help with getting any of that done, and the consulate in Guadalajara gave her incorrect information about a parent in the US having to get the birth certificates apostilled.  The Prepa would absolutely not accept the boy for registration without this and told him that he would have to pay as a foreign student to attend.  So there well may be all kinds of programs in place but if DIF and the parents don't know about them, it is not much use to them.  To say that none of what I said is factual is untrue, since I have sponsored about 70 students in that Prepa and the Director therefore knows me, and told me that his mother would have to get all that paperwork done before he could attend for free. Since I was there and you were not you will simply have to accept that much at face value. :)

http://www.prepaabierta.sep.gob.mx/servicios/inscripcion.php

Preparatoria Abierta

Google Transation:

"Foreign students

Applicants who come from abroad, will have to present the requirements established for enrollment in Open High, as stipulated in Article 8 of the Migration Law determines: "... that migrants will have access to educational services provided by The public and private sectors, regardless of their immigration status and in accordance with applicable legal and regulatory provisions, and that in the provision of educational services, no administrative act will establish restrictions for foreiners greater than those generally established for Mexicans. .. "

http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5396631&fecha=15/06/2015

"Inscription

It is the register of all those interested in carrying out their studies in Open High School.

There are no enrollment and enrollment periods for Open High School. The process can be carried out at any time of the year, except on non-working days.

 
To register, go to the office or service center of your choice and present the following documents in original:

• Birth certificate.
• Certificate of Completion of Secondary Education Studies.
• Proof of the Single Key for Population Registration (CURP).

 

 Further:


A recent child size photograph, in black and white or in color, front with the face uncovered and the hair collected, with clear clothes, in finished MATE. (Not scanned or scanned).

 
For the process of registration to proceed, it is essential to cover all the requirements established and with the characteristics that are mentioned. It should be noted that official documents will not be received with: deletions, amendments, illegible, stained, broken, etc. Registration is done free of charge and throughout the year.

Once the student has enrolled in Open High School, is assigned a registration number and to remain in active status, you must make the application and submit at least one exam per year.

 
This information is based on the current Open Registry and Control Regulations."

Última actualización: 26/02/2016

 

Note; INM status includes legal residents with a Residente Permanente, Residente Temporal, Residente Temporal Student visa or a 180 FMM tourist card. No mention of non legal residents being able to enrol in SEP [Secretaria Educación Publica]  funded public schools in Mexico..

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AlanMexicali. I don't understand the point you are trying to make by posting all these rules and regulations which no one cares about. Whether you want to accept it or not, ( and you clearly don't ) the boy didn't have a Mexican birth certificate to present until such time as we helped his mother get all the paperwork done with his American birth certificate. Until that time he was not allowed to register in Prepa. He was allowed to attend Primaria and Secundaria , but NOT Prepa.  Let's agree on this, Alan.  Next time I have a kid I'm sponsoring in this situation, how about if YOU take over and use all your rules and regulations to fix the problem. Thank you in advance.  Now I know who to contact, and the family will greatly appreciate your expertise and assistance.

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On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, gimpychimp said:

The problem is they are not considered to be Mexican citizens.  They are citizens of the United States, and when it is time for them to go to Prepa, which is what they call high school here, they will be considered as foreign students and charged thousands of pesos each semester to attend, which of course the parents don't have.  That means they can't progress past Grade 9 unless all the paperwork is done to register them as Mexican citizens. It takes thousands of pesos and some know-how which the often sorely uneducated parents have a difficult time understanding and doing. I helped a woman register her son recently. Prior to my helping she had gone to the American Consulate in Guadalajara to try to arrange for his American birth certificate to be apostilled and they told her only a parent who was in the United States could do it, which was completely incorrect information. It is not easy for an uneducated person with no money to get her children registered as Mexican so that they can go to school and get a voter's card one day when they are of age.

This is not factual

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On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:46 PM, gimpychimp said:

Alan Mexicali, although that all sounds very nice, when you have no birth certificate from the U.S., and have to find a way to get a copy of it sent here, and you are uneducated and don't know how to use a computer, things are not that simple.  This mother managed to get a copy of the birth certificates for her kids a couple of years ago but then we were told that they had to go to California to be apostilled, and then translated here by an official translator, and then taken to the DIF office so the kids could be registered. DIF offered her no help with getting any of that done, and the consulate in Guadalajara gave her incorrect information about a parent in the US having to get the birth certificates apostilled.  The Prepa would absolutely not accept the boy for registration without this and told him that he would have to pay as a foreign student to attend.  So there well may be all kinds of programs in place but if DIF and the parents don't know about them, it is not much use to them.  To say that none of what I said is factual is untrue, since I have sponsored about 70 students in that Prepa and the Director therefore knows me, and told me that his mother would have to get all that paperwork done before he could attend for free. Since I was there and you were not you will simply have to accept that much at face value. :)

 

6 hours ago, gimpychimp said:

AlanMexicali. I don't understand the point you are trying to make by posting all these rules and regulations which no one cares about. Whether you want to accept it or not, ( and you clearly don't ) the boy didn't have a Mexican birth certificate to present until such time as we helped his mother get all the paperwork done with his American birth certificate. Until that time he was not allowed to register in Prepa. He was allowed to attend Primaria and Secundaria , but NOT Prepa.  Let's agree on this, Alan.  Next time I have a kid I'm sponsoring in this situation, how about if YOU take over and use all your rules and regulations to fix the problem. Thank you in advance.  Now I know who to contact, and the family will greatly appreciate your expertise and assistance.

 

The point is you stated foreign students [all] need to pay thousands of pesos per semester to attend a SEP funded public "prepa". There is no charge to attend a SEP funded "prepa" for foreign students in Mexico legally.

The point is you stated it cost thousands of pesos to get a Certificate of Nationality in Mexico. It actually costs $260.00 pesos

The point is you stated the Director of the "prepa" would charge a foreign student with no immigration status thousands of pesos per semester foreign student fee  to go to his SEP funded "prepa."

I am not concentrating on your individual experiences with that child or others as you are.

 

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Now you are twisting my words, Alan. Where did I say "all"? I was speaking of the boy and his sister who I recently helped. If it applied to these two American born kids I am sure it does happen to others, though.  I can only attest to what happened in my case.   I think I made it very clear that I was talking of a specific case where I helped a boy I sponsor. The Cert of Nationality may only cost that but I clearly stated that we had to get his copy of his U.S. birth certificate apostilled in the U.S. and that was not free. Then the document the U.S. provided had to be translated to Spanish down here. All this involved Fed-exing documents back and forth. Therefore in my case, it DID cost far more than 260p per child.  I did state that the Prepa wanted thousands of pesos for him to attend as a foreign student because he had no Mexican birth certificate, and they did. Like I said earlier, I was there and you weren't so you can't really argue about that conversation, can you?

Let's let it go and please keep your rule book handy for the next case.  ;)

 

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2 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

 

 

The point is you stated foreign students [all] need to pay thousands of pesos per semester to attend a SEP funded public "prepa". There is no charge to attend a SEP funded "prepa" for foreign students in Mexico legally.

The point is you stated it cost thousands of pesos to get a Certificate of Nationality in Mexico. It actully costs $260.00 pesos

The point is you stated the Director of the "prepa" would charge a foreign student with no immigration status thousands of pesos per semester foreign student fee  to go to his SEP funded "prepa."

I am not concentrating on your individual experiences with that child or others as you are.

 

Actually, Alan, in rereading what gimpy said, I cannot find anywhere that he/she said any of these things. You indeed have twisted his/her words. You should apologize, no?

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1 hour ago, HookEmHorns said:

Actually, Alan, in rereading what gimpy said, I cannot find anywhere that he/she said any of these things. You indeed have twisted his/her words. You should apologize, no?

I hi-lited his comments in red in my 2 posts above for you to re-check them more accurately.

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Since we have been through the same experiences as Gimpy, and found the costs as he/she described, I know from personal experience that he/she is correct. When, Alan, you actually do the process for his/her next student, then report back with your personal experience and we will compare apples to apples.

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Many years ago our cook had trouble enrolling one of her kids in school. She said one letter in his birth certificate was wrong. So she had to go to Gdl. to get it fixed. When it was her turn the clerk told her it could be fixed for free but would take a couple of weeks or for $150 he could fix it while she waited. Since she didn't want him to miss 2 weeks of school, she paid.

So, would you say it's free or costs extra? Both answers are technically correct. 

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16 minutes ago, AngusMactavish said:

It is mordida, no?

Yes it is "mordida". Also the "prepa" where foreign students were offered to be enrolled without legal INM [immigration] status and are asked to pay thousands of pesos per semester is also "mordida" as it is against the law to enrol any student when residing in Mexico without a legal resident status. IMO

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38 minutes ago, AngusMactavish said:

It is mordida, no?

Of course it's mordida, it falls much harder on the locals than on us.

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On ‎24‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 6:04 PM, HookEmHorns said:

Since we have been through the same experiences as Gimpy, and found the costs as he/she described, I know from personal experience that he/she is correct. When, Alan, you actually do the process for his/her next student, then report back with your personal experience and we will compare apples to apples.

The cost of your/Gimpy´s examples are not the actual cost to get a Certificate of Nationality in Mexcio from the SRE to attend public school etc.. If the parent/s had gone to a Mexican Consulate while living in the US or any other country and registered and certified their child´s US birth certificate for $13.00 USD then the child would be added to the Mexican National Registery of Mexican Citizens in Mexico City. The certified foreign birth certificate would not be questioned in Mexico by law as it is certified/verified of it´s authenticity by the SRE at a Mexican Consulate and no appostilled copy would be needed for the application to get a Certificate of Nationality for $260.00 pesos once in Mexico which gets the child into school etc.

So I would presume the vast majority of Mexicans living abroad legally and undocumented have the knowledge to walk into a Mexican Consulate with their child´s birth certificate to register their child/children and get the birth certificate certified  by the SRE good in Mexico.

In conclusión your examples are not the norm but the exception. IMO. If the truth was presented as the facts instead of the so called facts being the exception and wrongfully stating there is a large foreign student fee which doesn´t exist then why support an explanation from someone who doesn´t know the norm only a limited example that he has experienced and claims that is the way it is done when that is not the way it is done generally?

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I question the statement " one million expats live in Mexico" San Miguel  12,000,  Lake Chapala 20,000 , PV, Cabo, Meridia, Cancun, Playa,  etc. if one were to add the other common areas in Mexico where most expats live you might be hard pressed  to find more than a dozen at most, and each area having  much,  lower expat populations than Lake Chapala and San Miguel. 

I have heard it said the the Mexican Gov. has not kept accurate records of all tourists  and others, that return the US and Canada. It may be a marketing ploy on Mexico's part to say, "One million expats live in Mexico"  "Come on in the water's fine" as the Mexican Gov. freely acknowledges the benefits from expat $ to Mexico's economy.  This is of course just my opinion, but I do find it difficult to believe  "one million expats living in Mexico".

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4 hours ago, El Saltos said:

Those numbers are wildly exagerated.  There are maybe 5,000 expats in the Chapala area!

And I suspect max 8000 in SMA while the total population is 180,000 with 90,000 in the city proper.

Of the million even if true, a significant number would be Mexicans born in the US or Mexicans with US citizenship now living in Mexico. The million is like "best weather in the world". :-)

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4 hours ago, Ajijic_hiker said:

I think the title to this should have read "illegal retirees".....just a suggestion.

The chosen title was exactly what the story in the TRTWorld.com said. Your suggestion should be directed to that site.

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