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US retirees in Mexico face being thrown out

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http://www.trtworld.com/americas/us-retirees-in-mexico-face-being-thrown-out-404060

"Mexico has topped the list of destinations for US expatriate retirees – and ironically  many of them are living in the country illegally.

Thousands of Americans are heading south in search of a better quality of life and cheaper healthcare.

These people are an essential part of the heartbeat of the Mexican community, such as those who live in San Miguel de Allende, a city located in the far eastern part of the state of Guanajuato in central Mexico."

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Agree.  And just what does "many" mean?  Some guy goes to San Miguel, talks to a few people and draws conclusions about the entire country.  Does "many" include the people who roll over tourist visas every six months?  As I understand it, that is not illegal.  Overstaying the visa is illegal in both countries.

I'd sure like to see some hard numbers on this.  After all, the total numbers are only estimated at around a million, how many of those are truly illegal?

It is very easy to be legal providing you can meet the income requirements.  That's really the only rub but it is a significant one at over $20K in acceptable income per year or proof of other, seriously substantial, reserves.

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with this.  I think Mexico has the immigration law and policy the U.S. should emulate.

 

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Alan Alan, how disappointing you have been drawn into the bleeding heart community. As noted to be there without permission is illegal and if MX or the US doesn't have a Rule of Law, then anarchy rules, is that in fact what you want? - I'm sure it's not. So, these people are an "essential heartbeat" of the communities? - really, you mean if today they were taken away the communities would just wither on the vine? - or maybe they would just disperse into the hinterlands like the Incas. So, answer this, when they die, and I can assure you we're all mortal, will these communities be decimated and unable to continue as viable parts of the MXN culture? If these people are so key and critical, why are they illegal to begin with? - oh right, I see, by someone's criteria (whom I'd guarantee you does not live there) they're illegal.

I got part way into the very political video to learn that only 20% are legal???? - give me a break, that's a typical twisting of words and reality to try to make a point. I'd bet some money on only 20% of people living in MX being "legal" per these people's criteria. That would mean 800,000 are either going to the border every 6 months to reup, or living illegal and in my 7 years there I never met a single person with the unadulterated stupidity to live without a visa of some kind, that's just dumber than a box of rocks unless you have a love of MXN jails and deportation el rapido. I've often said that I'd sooner leave my compound without my pants than without my Temporal visa etc.

No Alan, you fell into the honey trap of a typical clap trap article directed primarily at bad mouthing the elected Pres of the US for some perceived thing happening 700 miles S of the Border. Please do a bit more research and critical thinking before you post nonsense such as this again.

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Ironically, I think a lot of people living under the radar, not legitimate Mexican approved retirees, are also milking illegal activities in the U.S.A. and Canada. I don't mean the obvious criminals on the run, but the many who are receiving benefits which are explicitly prohibited from receiving outside of the U.S. or Canada. Many examples - GAIN (gauranteed income supplement in Canada), unemployment insurance, U.S. Social Security Disability Supplement (not full disability) (only a max of 30 days outside the U.S.A.), Canadian Pensions where there is a maximum payin time before they are entitled to out of the country payments, maybe even Welfare cheques. One thing though - they would all be paying income tax as though they still lived in Canada or the U.S.A.

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Ah yes, but then that's the stupidity of US and Canadian governments isn't it? - and you can bet pesos, the MXN gov has less than zero interest in discovering or doing anything about it, it's pesos into MX and that's all that counts. It's like the American tax scam of claiming 14 dependent kids and getting a refund for money never paid and it goes directly to MX. I deposited my fair share there to be sure. Just as a casual observation, it's easy to give money to a MXN, but darn hard to get it back, just my observation.

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Times are changing NOB, I was in Acuna last week, the usual 20 mile ICE check point was N of Del Rio, but also a spontaneous checkpoint further N that wasn't there hours before. Also, I noticed several ICE vehicles here and there along the roads. But, that doesn't address the SOB supposed problem of 800,000 gringos this article would apparently have you believe are in imminent danger of being arrested and deported post haste. Journalism died years ago, the junk you see today is simply political comment and generally one sided. The sad thing is that critical thinking is also passe and far too many people are sucked in by this junk serving no one.

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In defense of Alan,  I have found him intelligent to the point that he is not caught up in this Fake News Story and is simply posting it as a way to start a good discussion, which several have picked up. It seems clear to me that only a very few that have any idea about living in Mexico would not realize that this "story" is nothing more than a "story", and certainly implies much that is not the way things are.

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In a decade, I've only known 2 people with expired VISAs.  One is dead now, so that leaves just 1 out of the 100s of people I've known.

I've never heard of anyone being kicked out for just a VISA expiration or VISA absence.  I have known of a couple of people that the US Government snatched on fugitive warrants.

I have a Permanente Visa but it actually belongs to the Mexican government.  They issued it and they can take it away at any time.  

 

 

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26 minutes ago, betty7 said:

bs headline. no older person is being "thrown out". what they may ask for is to pay the penalty fine.

I know one just recently, but the story says "may", not is.

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What's that old saw about "past results may not predict future results?"  It should be obvious that if INM wants to look like they are retaliating for U.S. actions, tossing a few old geezers with expired visas is pretty easy and safe.  All the more reason to make sure all your papers, licenses, whatever are in order. 

 

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I have met more young US citizens (of Mexican parents) living and working here in Mexico that are technically "illegals" since they have no papers for Mexican residency status.  More so than senior citizens that are illegally here. Perhaps that is more often the case?  It would be very expensive for the families of such children to go through the INM jungle of bureaucracy to get them naturalized or legal here.  

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I'm not sure I agree with you. Who says it would be expensive? So they have no papers such as a Mexican driver's license? I guess they must have a US passport. You may be right but it seems to me that getting legal for them would be easier than staying underground and returning to say Texas to renew a license. Now if they're running from something......

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Well I don't have the facts so I won't argue the point with you.  One of the people I can think of ( a younger woman who is married and has children here and is working and contributing to society) probably has no US passport because she was brought back into Mexico as a young child.   It is just more evidence of illegals here. My point is that there are PROBABLY far more US illegals (and persons of other origins) residing here in Mexico than just US origin retirees ( which this post is about).   I think it is a good thing that the government here in Mexico does not strictly enforce it's immigration policy.  I for one did follow the rules and enjoy the priveledge of being able to live here in good conscience with the ability to come and go as I please but perhaps not all Non-Mexican "residents" in the country have the resources or necessary documents to get themselves legal.  

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In our many years here at Lakeside, we have know 2 Americans who were here illegally(came on a tourist card and just never returned). Recently, because of my wife being a Mexican Citizen, and with vast extended family, we have encountered a family consisting of a mother and her 4 minor children (ages 6, 8, 10, 11), all girls. The children are American Citizens, born in the US when the mother went illegally with a Permanent Resident from the US. Recently, he left them and turned them over to ICE (2015) and they were deported voluntarily to Mexico. She passes them into the interior without any papers, so these 4 are here illegally, as the mother is a Mexican Citizen. I think there must be a LOT of these in Mexico, as in the previous US administration, those types of deportations happened frequently, contrary to what was reported in the media.

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40 minutes ago, Hud said:

...so these 4 are here illegally, as the mother is a Mexican Citizen.

Then the children are Mexican too. She should know that and get them registered here.

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She can also take them, and their birth certificates, to the US Consulate in Guadalajara and register them as US citizens, so that they will be able to get US Passports. They may want that option when they get older, especially if they do well in school and might benefit from being able to apply to US universities, as well as Mexican ones.

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You think she can do those things for free? They had 235 USD when they crossed the border. No money, no child care, no job, no house, no food, etc. Lives with sister, all in on room and outside toilet. Dirt poor. Any more suggestions?

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3 minutes ago, Hud said:

No money, no child care, no job, no house, no food, etc. Lives with sister, all in on room and outside toilet. Dirt poor.

Sound like much of this country.

If they were US born they need do nothing else citizenship wise. And yes, you still can get into the US with a birth certificate, just not as quickly as a passport holder.

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Actually, she does. She does not have the money to "register" them as Mexican, as there are several "hoops" they must jump through such as : birth certificates, getting her records in order (as she was not here for 13 years), etc. With 4 children, she has problems getting them into a school without proof they are Mexican. It is a mess, but my guess is that she is not the only situation like this. Remember, many illegals to the US have very limited education and exposure to life outside the home (as she is a woman).

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I had no idea a Mexican in Mexico with Mexican children would need much money to get them registered. I came here after living in Veracruz where money was what other people had.

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2 minutes ago, AngusMactavish said:

I had no idea a Mexican in Mexico with Mexican children would need much money to get them registered. I came here after living in Veracruz where money was what other people had.

The problem is they are not considered to be Mexican citizens.  They are citizens of the United States, and when it is time for them to go to Prepa, which is what they call high school here, they will be considered as foreign students and charged thousands of pesos each semester to attend, which of course the parents don't have.  That means they can't progress past Grade 9 unless all the paperwork is done to register them as Mexican citizens. It takes thousands of pesos and some know-how which the often sorely uneducated parents have a difficult time understanding and doing. I helped a woman register her son recently. Prior to my helping she had gone to the American Consulate in Guadalajara to try to arrange for his American birth certificate to be apostilled and they told her only a parent who was in the United States could do it, which was completely incorrect information. It is not easy for an uneducated person with no money to get her children registered as Mexican so that they can go to school and get a voter's card one day when they are of age.

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Just now, gimpychimp said:

The problem is they are not considered to be Mexican citizens.

Hockey pucky. Even a grand child of a Mexican can claim their heritage. What has the US consulate or embassy have to do with Mexico? Thousands of Mexican immigrants in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas take their children's papers to the Registro Civil in Mexico to do the claims of citizenship in Mexico yearly. Viva La Raza!

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1 hour ago, gimpychimp said:

The problem is they are not considered to be Mexican citizens.  They are citizens of the United States, and when it is time for them to go to Prepa, which is what they call high school here, they will be considered as foreign students and charged thousands of pesos each semester to attend, which of course the parents don't have.  That means they can't progress past Grade 9 unless all the paperwork is done to register them as Mexican citizens. It takes thousands of pesos and some know-how which the often sorely uneducated parents have a difficult time understanding and doing. I helped a woman register her son recently. Prior to my helping she had gone to the American Consulate in Guadalajara to try to arrange for his American birth certificate to be apostilled and they told her only a parent who was in the United States could do it, which was completely incorrect information. It is not easy for an uneducated person with no money to get her children registered as Mexican so that they can go to school and get a voter's card one day when they are of age.

None of this is factual. In Mexico DIF [Sistema Nacional para el Desarrollo Integral de la Familia ] National System for the Integral Development of the Family has exactly this program for maginal Mexican citizens in her situation free of charge. They take care of everything and all you need is the children´s birth certificates and even if the mother doesn´t have a Mexican birth certificate they will also get her a certified copy as part of the free program they offer simply by going into a DIF office and filling out the proper forms.

"Solicitud de certificado de Nacionalidad Mexicana por haber nacido en el extranjero y ser hijo de padres mexicanos por naturalización

A-Z

"Application for Mexican nationality certificate for being born abroad and being the son of Mexican parents by naturalization
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter to foreigners who are subject to parental authority or are adopted children of Mexicans
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter for having a residence of two years and to have rendered services or carried out outstanding works in cultural, social, scientific, artistic or business matters that benefit the nation
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter for having a residence of two years and having Mexican children by birth
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter for having a residence of two years and having Mexican children by birth
(I.e.


Application for Mexican nationality certificate for being born in national territory
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter for having a residence of two years and being descended from a Mexican in a straight line
(I.e.


Application for Certificate of Mexican Nationality for being born on board Mexican vessels or aircraft
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letter to foreigners who are subject to parental authority or are adopted children of Mexicans
(I.e.


Application for naturalization letters for having a residence of two years and having contracted marriage with Mexican male or female
(I.e.

A-Z


Application for declaration of Mexican nationality born abroad of children of Mexican parents born in the national territory
(I.e.


Application for declaration of Mexican nationality for those born on Mexican vessels or aircraft
(I.e.


Request for declaration of Mexican nationality for those born in national territory
(I.e.


Application for the certificate of Mexican nationality for foreign-born children of Mexican parents born in the national territory
(I.e.



Identity


Updating and correction of personal data
(I.e.


curp
(I.e.


Military card
(I.e.


Certification of documents
(I.e.


Electronic signature (e. signature)
(I.e.


Consular registration"
 
On top of this SRE has a program recently implemented to speed up  getting a Mexican passport for Mexican citizens repatriating back into Mexico for a 10 year for $2390.00 pesos. Deportees I presume or if they left on their own to return. It takes 3 weeks to process down from about 4 months several years ago. This includes children born by a Mexican citizen/s abroad with the correct documentation.
 
Also children under 18 don´t get an INE [IFE] card you correctly stated. They can get an INAPAM card wth picture ID for free like a credit card type as federal photo ID or they can use sudent ID cards as photo ID. INAPAM doesn´t  use these type of cards for senior cards.
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