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Loud music in San Antonio after festival?


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I am hearing it as I write.  Loud music that I cannot identify the origin.  The 9-day community festival of San Antonio ended on Tuesday evening. Then I heard music from the plaza? Wednesday night, which I think was post-festival.   But the new music seems to be coming from a different location, and it is even louder (if that can be possible!) than the music in the plaza. Is it a private party? Am I the only one hearing this?

Does anyone have more info? I don't mind the music if I can shut the windows, but in this kind of weather I have no option but to keep them wide open to get the cooler breezes.  And the music is so loud I cannot drown it out with a TV or a floor fan. I feel sorry for those people closer to the source!

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51 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

The loud music, parties and cohetes at all hours of the night is one of the reasons we decided to leave.  Don't miss the irritation at all.

Where did you go? We moved to Lakeside after visiting various parts of Mexico for the past 20 years.  Oaxaca, Puebla, Cuernavaca, San Cristobal, DF, SMA, Guanajuato, even Playa del Carmen--all of them during festivals. Of all places, this is the worst. I can understand the community festivals in a public location which benefits everyone and are free to all, but if it's a private for-profit function inconveniencing other residents who receive absolutely no benefit, well, that's another story. And no, it's not just me, I have talked to local Mexicans and they hate it--not the public celebrations, but the for-profit venues that flaunt the noise regulations. 

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Music was from a new illegal place on LaPaz. Hope the city has sense enough to completely shut them down. This was built in the house occupied by the recently deceased lady that fought the sounds of the broadcast morning mass, the trash and the wall paintings-------------by her husband!

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Tony seemed to be a reasonable person. Hope people will go over and sit down to talk with him before the web board ranting goes into fevered pitch and this becomes a bitter battle. Hopefully, Tony has not lost his reason along with his wife.

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To OP, I totally feel your pain.  You are making points that I have been making on this board for 7 years regarding the noise.  I'm shocked it's Nanette's husband who is doing this?  She told me her Mexican husband was a bar musician, but not very experienced.  Others have told me about the new "club" on La Paz in SA.

I believe if you search this board you can find many comments from me regarding this issue from my perspective as a person who has made a living for almost 20 years utilizing sound amplification equipment.  The protocol for use of this equipment has never been developed here.  However, there is a Ley Federal, a Federal Law of Sound in Mexico now that gives specific limits to decibel use, and also states the basic justification for it which is that everyone basically has the right to a healthy and peaceful ambiance in their own homes, free of "acoustic contamination."

Your best bet is to keep on talking with your Mexican neighbors who are equally irritated, and believe me, they are... I hope you speak Spanish.  You need to coordinate a strategy of complaining, first to the actual bar owner - this should be done by Mexicans so that it does not appear to be a "gringo" issue.  If that doesn't produce results you need to get a group of at least 3 Mexican neighbors together and visit Hugo Herrera who is the licensing boss in Chapala.  They will crack down if this place doesn't have a license.  They want to make their permit $$.  However, stiff fines would yield them even more when enforcing sound laws.  If every overly noisy venue had to pay large fines for their offenses, the local municipalities could progress towards balancing their budgets.

Please note that the Mexicans may hate this bar music but they are reluctant to officially complain because they have no faith in their govt. to do anything about it and/or are afraid to sign petitions for fear of retaliation.  Few MX people are aware of this Federal Law :

http://www.saudicaves.com/mx/noise/Decibeles.pdf.  Print this out and hand it around to neighbors and use google translate for yourself if necessary.

This noise issue is NOT a gringo issue.  Please dispense with that tired cliche.  There is a new organization in Guadalajara called cruzada contra ruido - crusade against noise.  Here is their FB page with almost 17,000 likes.  There is definitely a backlash among the MX people against all this rot gut bar/evento noise.  https://www.facebook.com/CruzadaContraElRuido/  A few weeks ago there were numerous bar closings without warnings in Guadalajara because of the noise, so the momentum is in that direction.

Buena suerte!

 

 

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Betty7, the music was last night, in SA. It was loud.  This morning I was told the music originated from a home that was remodeled to be a school to help teach youngsters from SA how to play a musical instrument--a laudable idea. What it has morphed into is a restaurant/bar?/grill with a huge outdoor soundstage that rivals the one in the plaza for the festival last week.

I am not sure what music you heard between 8 and 11 last week in SA, Betty, but the bands in the plaza were scheduled to play until 2 or 3 am, and they did so (unless it rained), but at a lower volume than what was heard last night. Also, I noticed that all but one of the bands in the plaza politely reduced their volume by 11 pm out of consideration for those who had to work or attend school the next day. 

Thank goodness I can read and write Spanish fairly well....speaking, hmmmm. Nevertheless I can interpret the ley/law (Noise Ordinance) enough to read that music over xx decibels needs to cease or be reduced after 10 pm.

Edited to add: 

Of course, the easiest thing for me, as a gringo, would be to install a mini-split a/c in my bedroom (thank goodness I have solar power) and shut myself away from the noise, or better yet, move to a gated community and isolate myself in a gringo bubble. But how does that help the local residents around me, or assist them in improving their quality of life?  These are hard-working people, the vast majority of whom don't have the luxury of being able to sleep late or run an a/c unit at night. 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, ezpz said:

I believe if you search this board you can find many comments from me regarding this issue from my perspective as a person who has made a living for almost 20 years utilizing sound amplification equipment.  The protocol for use of this equipment has never been developed here.

You keep repeating this. I have been around bands, theatre, television, and radio studios since I was 16. Never heard of a protocol. My last experience was a long time ago when the "robotic" sound and lighting boards were becoming common. The only this I can think of the the use (misuse) of bass subwoofers now. There is one bypass setting for a disco/techno type beat, used by DJ's, and another for live performance. Live performance with a mismanaged subwoofer is truly awful. Screetchy high end, booming bass - nothing in between, you would certainly not be able to hear or understand the vocals.

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Bears repeating for some:

Quote

This noise issue is NOT a gringo issue.  Please dispense with that tired cliche.  There is a new organization in Guadalajara called cruzada contra ruido - crusade against noise.  Here is their FB page with almost 17,000 likes.  There is definitely a backlash among the MX people against all this rot gut bar/evento noise.  https://www.facebook.com/CruzadaContraElRuido/  A few weeks ago there were numerous bar closings without warnings in Guadalajara because of the noise, so the momentum is in that direction.

 

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15 minutes ago, daisy2013 said:

I have to laugh when I read move to a gated community.  Do you really think they cannot hear the music. Sound travels it does not stop at the edge of the plaza or SA.  I accepts music as part of living here. 

Daisy is correct on all counts.

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1 hour ago, daisy2013 said:

I have to laugh when I read move to a gated community.  Do you really think they cannot hear the music. Sound travels it does not stop at the edge of the plaza or SA.  I accepts music as part of living here. 

Not true - super quiet up here in Chapalas Haciendas and Las Brisas. Mature, 40 or 50 year old trees and gardens, pushing out cool oxygen. Also lots of Brisas.

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'Musicos' did not "morph into" a bar- restaurant , it was built specifically to be exactly that. Tony , with his love of music & young people , envisions the space also as usable teaching space. the sound system is indeed enormous , to my untrained eye at least way bigger than the space seems to dictate.  Tony is a really nice  guy though in my experience so hopefully reasonable compromises will happen

(Btw  there are gringo investors also heavily involved in the project) 

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The OP here: I met Tony, and he is a nice person. His concern for the welfare of the youth in the community is great, and I am excited for the future of the project.

At the same time, the music exceeds both the decibel level (<60) and time schedule (10 pm) in the federal ley.  I don't think it is intentional--who in their right mind would want to piss off the neighbors, and future potential donors?  

I believe both Tony and the performers are not aware how loud the sound system is, nor how much the design of the acoustic shell works like a huge megaphone. Think: Sydney Opera House! I live three blocks away and it is now past 11:30 on Monday night, and I can hear the music clearly. It would not be a problem if the venue were enclosed.

Perhaps the gringo investors could speak with Tony about this?

 

 

 

 

 

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One thing you can take to the bank : the noise problem here is many times worse in the last 5 years than in the 15 years before that.

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I know and like Tony very much.  That doesn't change the fact that putting open air music venues with big sound systems in the middle of residential neighborhoods is simply wrong.  We wouldn't tolerate someone taking crap from their property and dumping it in our living rooms, why is taking noise pollution and doing the same any more acceptable?

IMO it is not.  Regardless of time of day.  This thing will most certainly be violating the daytime noise laws as well.  It is one thing to have fiestas and celebrate holidays, which is a Mexican tradition.  It is quite something else to operate for profit venues making a racket week in, week out right next to where people live.

Tony, noise vandalism is even more obnoxious than the graffiti vandalism against which you were and still are one of the stalwarts here.  Please keep that civic mindedness in mind.

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On 6/18/2017 at 11:04 AM, CHILLIN said:

You keep repeating this. I have been around bands, theatre, television, and radio studios since I was 16. Never heard of a protocol. My last experience was a long time ago when the "robotic" sound and lighting boards were becoming common. The only this I can think of the the use (misuse) of bass subwoofers now. There is one bypass setting for a disco/techno type beat, used by DJ's, and another for live performance. Live performance with a mismanaged subwoofer is truly awful. Screetchy high end, booming bass - nothing in between, you would certainly not be able to hear or understand the vocals.

Chllin, the reason that you are not aware of a "protocol" in the US is that it is completely ingrained into the culture, everyone working with sound, which is a technical Job Skill, already knows the drill!  In all my professional years working with amplified sound, there were NEVER any noise problems because everyone knew what they were doing and every indoor venue was soundproofed and outdoor venues were located far from residential areas

 

On 6/18/2017 at 7:58 PM, court0503 said:

'Musicos' did not "morph into" a bar- restaurant , it was built specifically to be exactly that. Tony , with his love of music & young people , envisions the space also as usable teaching space. the sound system is indeed enormous , to my untrained eye at least way bigger than the space seems to dictate.  Tony is a really nice  guy though in my experience so hopefully reasonable compromises will happen

(Btw  there are gringo investors also heavily involved in the project) 

.  That's why it is such a shock to come here and hear all these inexperienced people using such big oversized sound systems which they clearly do not know how to operate - in the MX architecture which acts as an echo chamber

Such trivial remedies as earplugs and fans do nothing to mitigate the very loud volume that is often produced around here.  Some of you make light of this situation because you have never heard the really loud noise, not even once, certainly not often, for years, as I have.

Moving is not the solution to the problem unless you are living out of suitcases, which leaves most people out.  We are not all tourists here!

For those of you who make light of the noise problem, May a large loudspeaker truck park outside your home blasting noise for several hours every day for an entire year.  Then, get back to us and tell us how you feel!

------

"Musicos' did not "morph into" a bar- restaurant , it was built specifically to be exactly that. Tony , with his love of music & young people , envisions the space also as usable teaching space. the sound system is indeed enormous , to my untrained eye at least way bigger than the space seems to dictate.  Tony is a really nice  guy though in my experience so hopefully reasonable compromises will happen

(Btw  there are gringo investors also heavily involved in the project) 

------------

"What it has morphed into is a restaurant/bar?/grill with a huge outdoor soundstage that rivals the one in the plaza for the festival last week."

------

Keys to your problem... overly large sound system, overly large soundstage, wasting money, no one knows how to operate it or it would not be so loud, no soundproofing, no awareness of how the sound travels and aggravates neighbors, ignorance of the Mexican Federal Law regarding Acoustic Contamination...  All this indicates complete ignorance on the part of all those in charge of this project!

OK, gringo investors, time to step up to the plate, learn something about the technical and aesthetic aspects of public sound production, and do something to stop this from becoming the next noise disaster torturing small town residents!  Sell the oversize equipment and replace it with the smallest available system.  You only get to use large equipment if you book yourselves into a large arena and can attract an audience of thousands.

If necessary, go back up to any major city up north where they have GOOD live music, attend clubs and concerts, check out the soundproofing, the sound system, volumes and effects used, etc. Go outside the venue and see how far the sound travels and how much you can hear. Talk to the sound engineers, bar owners, and musicians if possible.  If you have no experience in these matters you are contributing to the problem!  Sound amplification equipment is NOT a toy!!!!

 LOL, some time ago people advised me to move to SA where it was so quiet!  You see how things can change???  

Please revisit this cruzada contra ruido FB page again.  You will see that since I first posted this link, it has gained 1000 more Likes in the past week alone!  People all over are really getting sick and tired of so much amplified noise, and the Mexicans are finally finding their voices in this matter.    https://www.facebook.com/CruzadaContraElRuido/ 

Overall, I have noticed a reduction in the noise around my area, not much now except for a few exercise classes at the Plaza B.  The people themselves are not making much noise and enjoying the new, possibly fragile, calm.

Have a beautiful and peaceful day!

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Google translation of recent post to the CONTRA EL RUIDO FB page:

"Neighborhood noise

In our city causing excessive noise should be punished with a fine or arrest. Nothing very different from what happens in bogotá, Santiago, Buenos Aires or Seattle. But nothing happens: no police, no, no subpoenas, no minutes, no procedures, no fines, no arrests, no records. There are laws, but no authority to enforce them. We share this column of one of the founders of the crusade against the noise today at Mural Grupo Reforma.

Impunity for neighbourhood noise

Few know that the case has come out good. One of them is the reform of day-to-day justice. A few months ago, a constitutional reform was adopted that will substantially improve the delivery of civil and family justice throughout the country through the implementation of oral trials. Recently, the National Council for public security approved the 911 call service, with the aim of reducing the time for attention and monitoring the quality of the services provided by the government.

One of these services is the resolution of conflicts between neighbours. In the day-to-day justice forums organized by the in 2015, the little interest of local governments in resolving neighbourhood conflicts was warned. Indifference is historic. In His report, the noted that in 1970 another study had already warned the same problem: " it is surprising that the conflicts of daily life have aroused little interest. Less spectacular, but infinitely more frequent ".

It is significant that the daily conflict most mentioned in the report has been the neighborhood noise: " if one opens the press it is possible to find news about disputes between neighbors by the volume of music ", " if one asks the population is possible That the majority ignore the existence of an institution that may force a neighbor to lower the volume of his radio ", " in a survey recently raised in the city of San Luis Potosí shows that for 22 % of the interviewees The noise represents a nuisance that prevents them from sleeping ".

What is the consequence of this inefficiency of governments in the face of neighbourhood conflicts? Very serious according to the report: " information developed by suggests that in the entire republic the quarrel between neighbours may have greater dimensions and repercussions than, for example, drug sale or homicide." if minor things are not punished , much less the older, seems to be the signal that the government sends. That is why the cide recommended filling that vacuum of authority through the prompt and effective intervention of the police to resolve these conflicts: "proximity police".

In Our City, the police don't intervene when the neighborhood noise is reported. The 911 operators are unaware of the existence of the national catalogue of emergency incidents, which it considers to be the " Acts in which the tranquillity of the neighbours with noise, screams, musical or electronic sound ". replied " that It's not an emergency ". when the incident is reported, the police refuse to intervene or even raise a record. Your usual answer is that you can't do anything because the offenders "are in your house".

The municipal regulations are punishable by a fine or arrest the infringement of a noise beyond the legal limits. Nothing different from what other cities contemplate. In Santiago de Chile a municipal inspector comes to the report and leaves a summons to the offender to go to the police court and be fined. In Bogotá, the police are responsible for verifying the lack and imposing a fine. In Buenos Aires, it is reported 911 or online to the police station which comes to the call and initiates a procedure to fine or to condemn works of public utility. In Seattle, an officer infracciona the first time and presents criminal charges if he is.

None of that happens in our city, to frustration the victims of neighborhood noise. There are no cops, no decibels, no subpoenas, no records, no procedures, no fines, no arrests, no records. As is the case in failed states, the law of the stronger prevails in the gaze of authority. A face of impunity: there are laws, but no authority to enforce them.


alberto.garcia.ruvalcaba@


http://www.mural.com/aplicacioneslibre/editoriales/editorial.aspx?id=115117&md5=71ecba51f2ad9e0014ba7792d95585d2&ta=0dfdbac11765226904c16cb9ad1b2efe&lcmd5=ece70a1455267cd3c4cec6881f209cf9

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