FMM - losing permanente

[luvsdawgs]

I read the article in the Reporter last week and now am curious. I one comes back into Mexico and fills the form our incorrectly, how or are there any notifications from the Govt? Does Immigration send a letter to the person that they have lost their permanente and are now tourista? If not, it is entirely possible the person could land up in much trouble, no? Does anyone know the answer? Thanks for your time. 

[Intercasa]

No notification, just denial next time you renew or apply for a replacement if yours is lost or stolen. 

IMMIGRATION IS WRONG ON THIS ONE.  The Guadalajara office misapplies the law.  The very form states that this should not happen and cannot happen but apparently literacy is not at an all time high at certain government offices. 

[mudgirl]

And it's really not rocket science to fill the form out correctly.

1. Check the box marked "residente permanente".

2. Check the box marked "other" under reason for visit.

3. Write RESIDENTE PERMANENTE on the top of the form just so they can't miss it.

When going through immigration, make sure to hand them your resident card as well as your passport.

[bezerk]

Maybe it is rocket science since there seems to be such an issue.  Just saying..

[mudgirl]

Well, I have always done it correctly without anyone having to explain it to me, and I really don't think I'm some kind of genius. I just pay attention.

[Xena]

May you always pay attention, never get old and confused, never be ill and make a mistake, and always remain confident and certain. If any of those things do happen to you may you never be considered stupid or foolish by smug people who think they would never let something like that happen to them.

[luvsdawgs]

11 hours ago, Intercasa said:

No notification, just denial next time you renew or apply for a replacement if yours is lost or stolen. 

IMMIGRATION IS WRONG ON THIS ONE.  The Guadalajara office misapplies the law.  The very form states that this should not happen and cannot happen but apparently literacy is not at an all time high at certain government offices. 

Spencer, is there any way someone can check their status before this? What about if someone goes out again, will there be a problem returning? Have a friend who this would apply to and she is concerned.

 

[Sonia]

Spencer is correct. And also, if one looses a visa while out of country and does not take the appropriate steps and enters as a tourist that is what they will be. What one does in that situation is on my web site under VISAS.

Also if one tries to enter Mexico with a visa that has expired by even a day, it is retained and the person enters as a tourist.

Very recently a client applied for a visa and then against my advice flew out before visa was approved. She stated she had lost her FMM so got another when leaving. She entered as a tourist since INM had her visa. She returned and got away with finger prints. Visa was issued 2 weeks later. In another 2 weeks a notice came to meet at INM. In the meeting they took her visa and allowed her to remain as a tourist. She has to start the process over at a MX consulate. Point being, INM staff are far more computer wise than in the past. I was pleasantly surprised she was not told to leave the country.

[Alpha1]

Why doesn't INM simply post a completed SAMPLE of what they want to see to save on a lot of verbiage and confusion? A picture is worth a thousand words, or more in this case; this should solve everything IMHO! Similar to:

This is a SAMPLE ONLY, MAY NOT APPLY TO YOUR SITUATION

FMM sample filled Out Forms

[gringohombre]

I too am concerned. Recently I had to go to the VA Hospital in Phoenix for a major operation to correct a botched hip replacement here. I was in great pain and I know that I was wheeled to the immigration booth and filled out the form there as a Permanente. I was in the hospital for a month and again was in great pain and on strong meds when I returned. I remember that should have had a part of that form to present to customs but in my state could not find it. When I got to the customs guy I presented my passport with my plastic Permanente inside and crossed my fingers. He checked these and waved me through. I thought that I was in the clear and now am wondering if I am in trouble. Is it possible to go somewhere or on the internet to check my current status? Gracias.

[Sonia]

5 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

I too am concerned. Recently I had to go to the VA Hospital in Phoenix for a major operation to correct a botched hip replacement here. I was in great pain and I know that I was wheeled to the immigration booth and filled out the form there as a Permanente. I was in the hospital for a month and again was in great pain and on strong meds when I returned. I remember that should have had a part of that form to present to customs but in my state could not find it. When I got to the customs guy I presented my passport with my plastic Permanente inside and crossed my fingers. He checked these and waved me through. I thought that I was in the clear and now am wondering if I am in trouble. Is it possible to go somewhere or on the internet to check my current status? Gracias.

Take your PR visa to INM and they will check for you. I am optimistic you will be fine.

[gringohombre]

13 minutes ago, Sonia said:

Take your PR visa to INM and they will check for you. I am optimistic you will be fine.

Is there still an office on the left  side of the carretara as you approach Chapala?

[gogirl]

20 hours ago, bezerk said:

Maybe it is rocket science since there seems to be such an issue.  Just saying..

 

18 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Well, I have always done it correctly without anyone having to explain it to me, and I really don't think I'm some kind of genius. I just pay attention.

 

17 hours ago, Xena said:

May you always pay attention, never get old and confused, never be ill and make a mistake, and always remain confident and certain. If any of those things do happen to you may you never be considered stupid or foolish by smug people who think they would never let something like that happen to them.

 

Thank you bezerk and Xena!! I must be getting old because I can't recall a box for residente permanente!

[mudgirl]

22 hours ago, Xena said:

May you always pay attention, never get old and confused, never be ill and make a mistake, and always remain confident and certain. If any of those things do happen to you may you never be considered stupid or foolish by smug people who think they would never let something like that happen to them.

Oh honestly, I was not not trying to be smug. I am close to 70 myself and see many of my friends not so with it anymore, nor is my short term memory what it used to be.

It just seems that a lot of folks are very confused about the FMM forms, and in fact it IS very confusing if one INM agent says, for instance, that you need to turn in the small part of the form when leaving as a resident (or vice versa) and the agent at the airport or border crossing says the exact opposite. In that case, however, it is actually the agents who are confused about the rules, not us.

But the form itself does not have any trick questions. And if one is scared of filling it out incorrectly, just leave the parts you're not sure of blank and ask the immigration official at the airport how you are meant to fill it out. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I have never encountered an agent who is purposefully unhelpful or nasty.

From the accounts I have read, it seems that those who lost their residency and had to start over, either knowingly entered as a tourist, not realizing that it would negate their residency status, because for whatever reason, they decided that it would expedite their entry, or they failed to make their status known to the immigration officer, by not presenting their card when entering, or checking the box marked "tourist", when in fact they weren't.

I don't get the impression that the majority of people on this site are so infirm or senile that they can't keep their wits about them when entering a foreign country (always a good idea), and if they are, they should be traveling with someone who has the ability to deal with these things. We all value our independence, but when grandma can't see or react well enough to safely drive anymore, hey, the kids take her car keys away :-)

[Xena]

And, as I said, may something like that never happen to you.

[diandbeau]

Why do we check "other" rather than tourist?

Can't find a box for Residente Permanente anywhere on the form.

What are the yellow circles supposed to mean?  That they must be filled out by immigration??

[RickS]

Because you are NOT a tourist based on Mexican law. You have the immigration status of a Permanent Resident.

The box for Resident Permanente (and Residente Temporal for that matter) is down in the area where the yellow circle that you asked is.... hard to read on the form above but it/they are there. Keep in mind that this form was filled out for a person who got their Permanente at a Mexican Consulate in the US and had 30 days to report to INM somewhere in Mexico to continue the process.

 

 

[bezerk]

I totally agree with Xena and sorry mudgirl but your explanation for your smugness borders on more of it. 

Obviously it is quite confusing to many so much so that some have lost their status.  Sometimes it takes something to happen to someone themselves to get it..:(

 

[mudgirl]

8 hours ago, diandbeau said:

Why do we check "other" rather than tourist?

Can't find a box for Residente Permanente anywhere on the form.

What are the yellow circles supposed to mean?  That they must be filled out by immigration??

You check the box marked "other" because if you own or rent a home in Mexico and spend a portion of the year living here and have residency status, the purpose of your visit is not tourism. And there is no box to check that says "just living my life here".

[bdlngton]

On 4/29/2017 at 9:14 AM, Alpha1 said:

Why doesn't INM simply post a completed SAMPLE of what they want to see to save on a lot of verbiage and confusion? A picture is worth a thousand words, or more in this case; this should solve everything IMHO! Similar to:

This is a SAMPLE ONLY, MAY NOT APPLY TO YOUR SITUATION

FMM sample filled Out Forms

I don't know where you got that form, but it is different than the one I have received and used on several recent round trips to and from the US, most recent less than one month ago.  The principal difference is that your form labels the top half for entrance and the bottom for exit.  I am looking right now at the form given me on my most recent return flight to GDL (I always take the blank form offered on the flight in order to have it filled out before arriving at airport for next flight.)  On this form, and on every other one I've seen during at least four flights during the past year, both the TOP AND the BOTTOM part are labeled "REGISTRO DE ENTRADA/ENTRY REGISTRATION," which obviously makes no sense as one is for departure and one is for reentry. Neither section is labeled as departure registration.  I always find this confusing as to which section to fill out with date, airlines and flight number for departing flight.  So I'm wondering where you got the form you posted here, which makes more sense with each section clearly labeled as to which to fill out for departure and which to fill out for entry.

The article in the Guadalajara Reporter stated to fill out the bottom (smaller) portion of the form and then turn it into the airlines, which will attach it to the boarding pass and they  take when you board.  That is not quite my experience as to the procedure to officially check out of the country.  I  ALWAYS go to the INM window just to the left of the international arrivals area as soon as I arrive at the airport, to get them to check my RP card, my FMM form (which they usually write on, including RP,) and my passport (which they always stamp.) I am sure to write RESIDENTE PERMANENTE at the top of this portion of the form too. Then I precede to the airlines counter to check in, where they attach the bottom part of the FMM form to my boarding pass and return the top part to me to use when I return.  I do not know if one can just go directly to the airlines counter without going to the INM window first but I wouldn't skip that step just to be sure I've done what is required with INM officials.  Certainly the airlines would not stamp one's passport with departure date.  I'm not sure how important that is but I figure better safe than sorry.  I have had the experience in the past of the airlines sending me back to the INM window before giving me my boarding pass.

The article in the Reporter also stated that often the problem causing loss of resident status occurs in immigration when re-entering the country if the official checks "turismo" as purpose of visit on the FMM form and the traveler doesn't catch that error.  You should always check "otro," in space #9, write in Mexico as your country of residence in space #7 (even if you are a snowbird with temporal or permanente residence in Mexico because Mexico views you as a resident,)  in space #8 write in your temporal/permanente resident card number, and write RESIDENTE TEMPORAL or RESIDENTE PERMANENTE at top of form.  Then WATCH that the immigration marks the correct area in the grey USO OFICIAL correctly in the area labeled UNICAMENTE PARA  EFECTOS ESTADISTICOS.  The second box on left should be checked if you are RESIDENTE PERMANENTE.  The first box on the right should be marked if you are RESIDENTE TEMPORAL.  Thjs, according to the article in the Reporter is where the errors that robbed people of their resident status, thus forcing them to start those procedures over again to change, from tourist to resident status.  I would suppose that the manority of foreigners who enter do so as tourists and the agents get into a habit/rhythm of just marking the ESTANCIA MAXIMA HASTA 180 DIAS without that thinking.  This is why the GR story said to be vigilant at this point of reentry and not assume because you've filled out your form correctly and shown your residente card that the government official filled out the official government form correctly.  I know I've never paid attention at this point but I'm sure I will from now on. 

Even if traveling  by car or bus, you need to seek out the immigration office at your port of entry or exit to do these steps to protect your resident status.  It is not always obvious where these offices are (I remember. Having to detour from the main road to go down under the bridge in Nuevo Laredo going and coming on my one driving trip to Texas.  It would have been so easy to have just continue straight on ovef the bridge.)

Hope that helps at least one person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[El Cartero]

19 hours ago, RickS said:

Because you are NOT a tourist based on Mexican law. You have the immigration status of a Permanent Resident.

 

I have always checked tourist -- that since the inception of Permanente -- because I viewed it as 'why am I leaving Mexico'.  I even put the outbound aircraft on the small form turned in upon check-in; and, the inbound aircraft on the big portion for arrival back in Mexico.   In other words I viewed myself as a tourist in the other country.   I figured my passport would reflect departure and entry.  Departure being the arrival stamp in other country and arrival being the stamp when back in Mexico.    As far as driving in and out I never did anything, just drove out and in.  So the news of how to do it is great but I'm not going to fear recourse on how I screwed it up in the past.

[Sonia]

20 minutes ago, El Cartero said:

I have always checked tourist -- that since the inception of Permanente -- because I viewed it as 'why am I leaving Mexico'.  I even put the outbound aircraft on the small form turned in upon check-in; and, the inbound aircraft on the big portion for arrival back in Mexico.   In other words I viewed myself as a tourist in the other country.   I figured my passport would reflect departure and entry.  Departure being the arrival stamp in other country and arrival being the stamp when back in Mexico.    As far as driving in and out I never did anything, just drove out and in.  So the news of how to do it is great but I'm not going to fear recourse on how I screwed it up in the past.

I suggest you ask INM what is your status. It is quite possible you are now a tourist. I have seen it happen several times. Actually, I would be pleasantly surprised if you were not a tourist. And, for example if one owns property and sells thinking they are a TR or PR but rather a tourist the surprise may be very expensive with taxes. 

Or one thinks they are a TR and have a foreign plated car but are now a tourist due to this issue. They then discover their vehicle is no longer legal in Mexico as the TIP was not renewed as a tourist every 6 months.

 

bdlngton thanks. One can Google FMM photo and may come up with the current form used. 

 

[Suesinthewind]

Sonia:  Do you have an office in Guadalajara or Ajijic?

[AlanMexicali]

1 hour ago, El Cartero said:

I have always checked tourist -- that since the inception of Permanente -- because I viewed it as 'why am I leaving Mexico'.  I even put the outbound aircraft on the small form turned in upon check-in; and, the inbound aircraft on the big portion for arrival back in Mexico.   In other words I viewed myself as a tourist in the other country.   I figured my passport would reflect departure and entry.  Departure being the arrival stamp in other country and arrival being the stamp when back in Mexico.    As far as driving in and out I never did anything, just drove out and in.  So the news of how to do it is great but I'm not going to fear recourse on how I screwed it up in the past.

When leaving Mexico at the airport did you give INM officails your Residente Permanente card along with your passport and filled out FMM card? When returning to Mexico by air did you also give the INM officials the same documents? If you didn´t give them your Residente Permanente card it might be a problem but if you did maybe they automatically didn´t process the larger top portion as a tourist FMM card and add 180 days before stamping it and keeping it when entering Mexico at the airport. That would most likely be the portion to cause you to become a tourist, I suspect. The smaller actually FMM 180 tourist card is randomly dropped off at INM offices at border crossing and only airlines vigilantly collect them and hand them into the INM office at airports, I suspect.

Possibly the top larger portion is what INM enters in their data system [and is more important to them] as positive proof a tourist entering Mexico at this port of entery on this date and recieved 180 days etc.. The smaller bottom portion [much less important to them] might only be entered into their system if the top larger portion is already there to confirm the card was returned.

Don´t forget each FMM card on both parts has a barcode with a unique number. If Expats are using one FMM form to exit and another to enter there will be no statisitics usuable to them. They might simply want to separate tourists entering Mexico from legal foreign residents entering for statistical purposes. So many millions of tourists visited Mexico this year etc.. After all it states RP and RT visa card holder only need to fill them out and hand them in: "Only for Statistical Purposes". The INM rules have no sanctions for not doing it and the law doesn´t even mention doing it.

[El Cartero]

Alan, yes always gave RP card and passport with FMM thingy.  Yes, same on return.   Nothing presented a problem or arose as a problem when we obtained  citizenship almosr two years ago.   And they went over everything with a fine toothed comb!