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Entering/Leaving Mexico

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1 hour ago, tomgates said:

OK, I see that. I have always checked Tourism. Is that wrong now?

 

1 hour ago, johanson said:

Me too. I consider this my primary home now that I am a permanent immigrant  so when I go North to my small Condo, I mark tourism.

I have always marked "other" in the boxes on both halves. Maybe that is why they always give me the correct halves each time, after all they have my RP card in front of them, but It might confuse them if you mark "tourism" on both halves. They might give you a tourist status. Who knows?

The point is the FMM is a Mexican Immigration questionaire as to why you are going into Mexico, not a USA Immigration questionaire why are going into the USA or any other country. It is not to tour, or to do business, but to live in Mexico as a RT or RP so "other" would be the "Purpose of your trip" to Mexico.

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Marking as a tourist can be dangerous to your residence status; it can be made void if you are given a tourist permit, since it is illegal to have two INM designations at the same time.  The most recent one will apply, and there will be no correction. You would have to go through the residence visa process all over again.

I suspect that there are some expats who have lost their residence visa status and do not even know it, until they travel again and it is discovered; or not.

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RV, that is what happened to our friends. They were Perm and Tourist when they returned. Didn't know it for 8 months, obviously being here illegally at that point. 

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Happened to one of my neighbors, also. She was not happy to have to fly to a Mexican Consulate in the US to restart the process.

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15 minutes ago, Al Berca said:

Happened to one of my neighbors, also. She was not happy to have to fly to a Mexican Consulate in the US to restart the process.

I guess that is why the INM is having information sessions - to inform us ExPats of the proper procedures for exiting and entering the country.

They were pretty clear at yesterday's session.

 

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Excellent. Long overdue. Glad they finally tried to make things clearer. So much confusion. So many misinformed rumors.

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Another excellent reason to learn Spanish; at least to read it.

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26 minutes ago, RVGRINGO said:

Another excellent reason to learn Spanish; at least to read it.

I spent 4 years 2 hours per day learning to read Spanish from 2008 to 2012/13. It took that long to become very good and I can write somewhat and I was concentrating and not screwing around.

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Sorry but after yesterdays meeting we were clearly told to HAND THE INM OFFICER OUR PERMANENTE CARD FIRST..THEN THE PASSPORT.... 

MARK ON THE CARDS IN BOLD LETTERS...RESIDENTE PERMANENTE...then they take the portion they need..you keep one!

This whole issue was discussed yesterday...no changes since 2012, and the above is not clear and further muddies the issue IMO.

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Aside from the fact that many of us are "of an age" where we might miss something if not paying attention, I don't really understand what is so confusing for people about this. Obviously, to me, if you have residency status, you would mark the appropriate box on the INM form. And obviously, to me, you would show your residency card when getting the form to fly out, as well as when handing in the other half on your return.

It seems the INM agents at the PV airport are more on the ball than those in Guad. I've never heard of anyone having their visa marked "tourist" in PV when they are obviously not (according to the card you present) and having the hassle of having to start the visa process over.

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4 hours ago, poptarte_22@yahoo.com said:

Sorry but after yesterdays meeting we were clearly told to HAND THE INM OFFICER OUR PERMANENTE CARD FIRST..THEN THE PASSPORT.... 

MARK ON THE CARDS IN BOLD LETTERS...RESIDENTE PERMANENTE...then they take the portion they need..you keep one!

This whole issue was discussed yesterday...no changes since 2012, and the above is not clear and further muddies the issue IMO.

To me your Post is somewhat confusing. You use the word CARD(S) for seemingly, to me, two different things.... a Permanente visa card and an FMM document card. This is what is confusing. 

It is an FMM docment card that one writes "Residente Permanente Boldly", not your Permanente Card.

So one hands the INM officer first your Permanente card, then your foreign Passport and then lastly an FMM 2-part document on which one has written boldly (on the top and bottom 'duplicate' parts) "Residente Permanente". He will keep one part of this FMM document (for statistical purposes) and give you back the other half for your use when you re-enter Mexico.  When you re-enter Mexico you give this 'half' FMM document to the INM agent at customs in the airport. This process is also used for a Residente Temporal visa holder for the same purposes.

 

 

 

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On 4/11/2017 at 4:28 PM, tomgates said:

OK, I see that. I have always checked Tourism. Is that wrong now?

YES it is wrong. Per Spencer McMillan...mark OTHER

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Sorry but after yesterdays meeting we were clearly told to HAND THE INM OFFICER OUR PERMANENTE CARD FIRST..THEN THE PASSPORT.... 

MARK ON THE CARDS IN BOLD LETTERS...RESIDENTE PERMANENTE...then they take the portion they need..you keep one!

This whole issue was discussed yesterday...no changes since 2012, and the above is not clear and further muddies the issue IMO.

 

Yes I did use that term..cards...but also said there were 2 parts to it...but thanks for the observation...I believe I know the correct way to get thru Immigration when I leave soon.        

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Most refer to the FMM (Forma Multiple Migratoria) as a two part form, as it is not a card in the same sense as is your visa card.   It avoids confusion, I think.

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On 4/7/2017 at 11:15 AM, rvanparys said:

Just received a note from the American Legion that Mexican regulations regarding entry and exit procedures have been changed. The note said that failure to follow the new regulations would invalidate existing visas and require resubmittals... There is a meeting of various civic groups scheduled for the 11th but it would be beneficial if all were to have info on these changes... Spencer can you comment?

Nothing has changed. All your questions about the event can be found here 

 

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Since this is a 29 minute video and the main question about returning to Mexico, if you have a Temporary visa or Permanente visa, how exactly do you fill out the FMM and what to present to the INM agent.  This is exactly why they had the meeting to clear up any confusion.  They address this issue around the 23 - 25 minute mark on the video.  First the INM representative explains it, and then during question and answer time someone asks the exact question that this thread is all about, and the INM representative not only answers the question, but shows the FMM form and explains what to fill out and what to turn in.

There have been lots of posts to this thread that give answers that may have worked, and are what people believe to be true.

But, if you want to know exactly what INM says, go to about the 23 minute mark on the above video and watch and you will have your answer.

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27 minutes ago, Gilligan said:

Since this is a 29 minute video and the main question about returning to Mexico, if you have a Temporary visa or Permanente visa, how exactly do you fill out the FMM and what to present to the INM agent.  This is exactly why they had the meeting to clear up any confusion.  They address this issue around the 23 - 25 minute mark on the video.  First the INM representative explains it, and then during question and answer time someone asks the exact question that this thread is all about, and the INM representative not only answers the question, but shows the FMM form and explains what to fill out and what to turn in.

There have been lots of posts to this thread that give answers that may have worked, and are what people believe to be true.

But, if you want to know exactly what INM says, go to about the 23 minute mark on the above video and watch and you will have your answer.

That works if the INM agent you deal with has watched the video. In my case 11 days ago the agent told me to fill in the bottom half only, I did so handed it back to him, he stamped it, I think he signed it, handed it back to me, but didn't give me the top half, as this was my first time flying out (I usually drive) I didn't know any better. Is it a big deal if you don't get the top half back, can't you just get a new one on the plane when you return....?

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8 hours ago, TelsZ4 said:

That works if the INM agent you deal with has watched the video. In my case 11 days ago the agent told me to fill in the bottom half only, I did so handed it back to him, he stamped it, I think he signed it, handed it back to me, but didn't give me the top half, as this was my first time flying out (I usually drive) I didn't know any better. Is it a big deal if you don't get the top half back, can't you just get a new one on the plane when you return....?

Seems like a lot of the confusion is caused by people who don't read.  

Stop and think about it.  If you are flying out, and you are Temp or Perm, when you get to the airport you don't have the bottom portion of the FMM form.  So you go to INM, complete the form, the agent stamps it and gives you the bottom portion so you can hand it to the ticket agent and they can clip it to your boarding pass.  That's pretty straight forward.

When you return, the video describes exactly what you need to do.  The reason that they are emphasizing this so much is because when people return, and they don't do it properly they run the risk of voiding their Temp or Perm and having to start the whole process over again.  As they tell you in the video, complete the FMM, hand your Temp or Perm visa to the INM agent 1st, then give him your passport and 3rd give him the FMM with only the top portion completed.  Only people coming in on a Tourist visa get the bottom portion returned to them.  

Just watch the video.

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After watching the video it appears INM doesn´t need or care about residents ever needing or need to get the bottom smaller portion of a FMM card to give when they are leaving Mexico, only the airlines seem to want this when boarding an international flight. It appears if you are a resident the airlines should not request the bottom portion from you and you can only show them your resident card and that you are not a tourist leaving Mexico and if this is the case you do not need to stop by the INM desk at all when flying or driving/walking out of Mexico. This makes sense to me because if you are a legal resident you are allowed to leave whenever you like. The airlines automatically treat you as a tourist when IMN doesn´t see it that way, I feel.

The video only emphasized filling out the top, larger, portion when entering Mexico and I assume it would be the same entering Mexico by air or by land. They don´t want legal residents to mark "Tourism" in the "Purpose of your trip" portion but want you to mark "Other" and write Residente Permanante or Residente Temporal on the top of the top, larger portion when entering Mexico and that is it. There is also a box for RT or RP that you or the INM official should mark on the top portion under the heading "Only for statistical effects/purposes". The INM official seemed confused when the man asked the question about retaining the smaller bottom portion and have it stamped and handed into the airlines when leaving and she said eventulaly to keep it if you want, but I presume it is of no importance and not needed by INM at all.

The INM officials didn´t mention what to do when leaving Mexico by air or land. I presume you simply leave and then when returning fill out the larger top portion when INM officials screen you and you get a new top portion to fill out everytime you enter and have no need to stamp your passport in or out. The people who are considering citizenship are the only ones who need to have a record of their exits and entrances for several years as there is a 180 day limit out of the country and should ask INM officials to stamp their passport in and out, not other legal residents.

 

In the video a woman and then a man ask about filling out a FMM card when leaving on an international flight and the INM officials seem to only be talking about filling out the larger top portion ONLY when entering Mexico. They continue to say don´t fill out the bottom smaller portion that is only for tourists obviously still talking about entering Mexico not leaving Mexico. If they want you to fill out any portion of a FMM card when flying out or driving/walking out they surely did no even mention that.

The woman asking the question first didn´t state at the airport flying out, she just stated at the airport, helped to confuse the INM officials, but the man taking the microphone from her can be heard saying when flying out at the airport, which obviously the INM officials didn´t hear because they were busy translating the woman´s question. In conclusión the 2 people asking their question did not get answered directly except the man was told not to fill out the bottom smaller portion because this is only for tourists, or in other words, don´t do anything and don´t give the airlines the tourist bottom portion filled out but seem to think they still need to stop by the INM desk at the airports in Mexico and fill out the larger top portion of a FMM card when they don´t need to because they are leaving not entering Mexico. Simply show the airlines your RT or RP card.

The larger top portion is asking specifically:  "Purpose of your trip" to/into/while in Mexico nothing to do with leaving Mexico. They stamp it upon your entry and enter the data into their system that you a RT or RP with your NUT number on the form [your immigration number]  entered Mexico on this date etc. for statistical purposes. They keep it and you get nothing. The smaller bottom portion isn´t used because it in not relevant to any RT or RP because they do not need approval for so many days to be in Mexico or proof of beng in Mexico legally, they have their RT or RP card for that. The INM officials never mentioned needing to stamp passports either.

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For better or worse, FMM's are used for more than what the video describes, which means the video's instructions are structurally overly-narrow in the context of other requirements.

Factual Context:
~ INM overall, and SRE have the stated goals of  monitoring, tracking and evaluating  foreigners movements in and out of Mexico.

~ Various INM offices and various INM agents have their own agendas, that subvert or contravene the overall goal of tracking & monitoring foreigners movements into and out-of Mexico.

~  Unfortunately, many INM agents and many INM offices operate in ways that inhibit or even circumvent monitoring & tracking foreigners moving into and out-of Mexico,  as foreigners often walk or drive out of Mexico without being tracked.  

~  There are times when the Mexican government decides to calculate & evaluate the number of days an individual foreigner has been inside Mexico.  When both the foreigner's passport and their INM computer database records have gaps (missing items) in the dates when a foreigner left Mexico,  it causes the Mexican Govt. authorities to assume that the foreigner was outside the country during the un-documented periods.   Specifically, SRE requires that applicants for Naturalized Citizenship to prove that they were inside Mexico for at least the required minimum number of days prior to the application.

~  It's clear that SRE, INM, US Consulates, and Trump tensions have mounted over US-Mexico border crossings,  which puts foreigners crossing in-and-out of Mexico right in the cross-hairs of government actions affecting us  during the current & future disputes.

A few questions for each of us to consider:
Are gaps in a system,  or incomplete only-partially-described systems (like the video above),  good or valid reasons to not follow the published rules?
 
In times of much-increased concerns   and heightened scrutiny  over    who and when someone is crossing the Mexico-US border:  Does it make better sense to follow the simple published written rules ? ... or to ignore them (and follow a video that likely has no legal standing) ?


 

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On 4/17/2017 at 0:05 PM, AlanMexicali said:

After watching the video it appears INM doesn´t need or care about residents ever needing or need to get the bottom smaller portion of a FMM card to give when they are leaving Mexico, only the airlines seem to want this when boarding an international flight. It appears if you are a resident the airlines should not request the bottom portion from you and you can only show them your resident card and that you are not a tourist leaving Mexico and if this is the case you do not need to stop by the INM desk at all when flying or driving/walking out of Mexico. This makes sense to me because if you are a legal resident you are allowed to leave whenever you like. The airlines automatically treat you as a tourist when IMN doesn´t see it that way, I feel.

The video only emphasized filling out the top, larger, portion when entering Mexico and I assume it would be the same entering Mexico by air or by land. They don´t want legal residents to mark "Tourism" in the "Purpose of your trip" portion but want you to mark "Other" and write Residente Permanante or Residente Temporal on the top of the top, larger portion when entering Mexico and that is it. There is also a box for RT or RP that you or the INM official should mark on the top portion under the heading "Only for statistical effects/purposes". The INM official seemed confused when the man asked the question about retaining the smaller bottom portion and have it stamped and handed into the airlines when leaving and she said eventulaly to keep it if you want, but I presume it is of no importance and not needed by INM at all.

The INM officials didn´t mention what to do when leaving Mexico by air or land. I presume you simply leave and then when returning fill out the larger top portion when INM officials screen you and you get a new top portion to fill out everytime you enter and have no need to stamp your passport in or out. The people who are considering citizenship are the only ones who need to have a record of their exits and entrances for several years as there is a 180 day limit out of the country and should ask INM officials to stamp their passport in and out, not other legal residents.

In the video a woman and then a man ask about filling out a FMM card when leaving on an international flight and the INM officials seem to only be talking about filling out the larger top portion ONLY when entering Mexico. They continue to say don´t fill out the bottom smaller portion that is only for tourists obviously still talking about entering Mexico not leaving Mexico. If they want you to fill out any portion of a FMM card when flying out or driving/walking out they surely did no even mention that.

The woman asking the question first didn´t state at the airport flying out, she just stated at the airport, helped to confuse the INM officials, but the man taking the microphone from her can be heard saying when flying out at the airport, which obviously the INM officials didn´t hear because they were busy translating the woman´s question. In conclusión the 2 people asking their question did not get answered directly except the man was told not to fill out the bottom smaller portion because this is only for tourists, or in other words, don´t do anything and don´t give the airlines the tourist bottom portion filled out but seem to think they still need to stop by the INM desk at the airports in Mexico and fill out the larger top portion of a FMM card when they don´t need to because they are leaving not entering Mexico. Simply show the airlines your RT or RP card.

The larger top portion is asking specifically:  "Purpose of your trip" to/into/while in Mexico nothing to do with leaving Mexico. They stamp it upon your entry and enter the data into their system that you a RT or RP with your NUT number on the form [your immigration number]  entered Mexico on this date etc. for statistical purposes. They keep it and you get nothing. The smaller bottom portion isn´t used because it in not relevant to any RT or RP because they do not need approval for so many days to be in Mexico or proof of beng in Mexico legally, they have their RT or RP card for that. The INM officials never mentioned needing to stamp passports either.

We are leaving by air for the first time with RP's.  This thread contains come contradictory info about what to do when departing GDL.  Do we still go to INM desk as in past (we had FM3/2's years ago)?  What should we expect to take away from the INM kiosk and what does the airline expect us to give them?

Maybe someone who has flown out of Mexico recently on an RP can share their experience.  

I'm clear on what we need to do when returning to MX with the FMM and RP, but not sure of what our exit strategy should be.

Gracias in advance!

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When leaving on a flight that will take you out of Mexico, go to the INM booth and fill out an FMM, clearly marked Residente Permanente at the top of both parts.  Never check “Tourist“. Always check “OTHER“. Then, get your boarding pass and depart.  Keep the remaining part with your passport for your return to Mexico, showing it along with your RP Visa card upon re-entry.

Enjoy your trip.

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5 minutes ago, RVGRINGO said:

When leaving, go to the INM booth and fill out an FMM, clearly marked Residente Permanente at the top of both parts.  Then, get your boarding pass and depart.  Keep the remaining part with your passport for your return to Mexico, showing it along with your RP Visa card upon re-entry.

Enjoy your trip.

I believe there's a box on form that you check for RP, these days.  

RV, the method you are referring to, may be out of date??  That IS the way we used to come and go with FM3s, but seems it has changed this year.  I don't think you 'save' the bottom part of form to give to INM when you fly back to MX.  I think when you enter MX, you fill out a new FMM as an RP (has its own box to check).  

Anyone leave via GDL recently....since these April postings??

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If you get a new FMM form that does have a place to check for Residente Permanente, that would certainly be the proper place to check. 

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I just flew in Thursday.  my FMM that I could have gotten a while back, I have no idea, did not have a square to indicate Residente Permanente . I was at a presentation by immigration officials for the foreigners earlier this year. They did not mention anything about new FMMs. I was told to write in pencil at the top of my form "Residente Permanente" although, I have never done that before, it worked just the same as when I showed my Residente Permanente card and stated in Spanish that I was a Residente Permanente.

They also stated that when choosing an option about the "purpose of trip" that I should mark other.

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