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High Incidence of Kidney Failure Cases near Chapala


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You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that Lots of dangerous pesticides are used in the local area and they are being allowed to run off into the lake. Thus, local rivers and strea

In a recent speach Todd Stong reported that 5 of the 8 wells in Chapala were contaminated with arsenic. Mexico is so cavalier about  agrochemicals and pesticides and other pollutants.

I stand by my comment.  The governor of Jalisco needs to clean up his own state first.  The filthy air of GDL and the dirty rivers everywhere are a disgrace and they are killing people.  The corruptio

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1 hour ago, El Bizco said:

Industrial pollution in rivers and creeks in the greater Chapala and Santiago aquifers has been cited as a possible cause, as well as the agrochemicals and pesticides used on local farms.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/kidney-failure-cases-probed-in-jalisco/

There is no proof in this article nor any scientific studies over the years. I recommend that this article be taken with a grain of salt.

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That this river is badly polluted is indisputable.  What is it you would take with a "grain of salt" since it states the exact cause has not been determined?  The medical people working on the problem certainly appear qualified to do so.

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A team of specialists from the University of Guadalajara, the National Institute of Public Health, medical laboratory Grupo Pisa and other institutions responded when the Civil Hospital of Guadalajara started reporting an increase in cases of kidney failure in young patients.

 

According to nephrologist Karina Renoirte López, 40% of the inhabitants of Poncitlán presented some level of kidney failure and traces of lead and other heavy metals. The symptoms were more prevalent among young, male farm workers.

The specialists began doing field research in the area two years ago, but have yet to reach any conclusions.

Industrial pollution in rivers and creeks in the greater Chapala and Santiago aquifers has been cited as a possible cause, as well as the agrochemicals and pesticides used on local farms.

What is sad about the condition of this river is that the technology to deal with these industrial wastes has been around for decades and any international firm that manufactures in the U.S., Canada or Europe has had to apply the technology so they already know how to do it.

It is suspicious that the young male farm workers are the most affected, suggesting an agricultural component that could be additive to the other pollution toxicity.  The latter is suggested by the fact that non farm workers are also being affected.

Just remember this stuff is flowing into Lake Chapala and nothing flows out of Lake Chapala other than the water being pumped to Guadalajara.

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On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:22 AM, ned small said:

There is no proof in this article nor any scientific studies over the years. I recommend that this article be taken with a grain of salt.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that Lots of dangerous pesticides are used in the local area and they are being allowed to run off into the lake. Thus, local rivers and streams also get polluted.

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In a recent speach Todd Stong reported that 5 of the 8 wells in Chapala were contaminated with arsenic.

Mexico is so cavalier about  agrochemicals and pesticides and other pollutants.

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1 hour ago, Jim Bowie said:

It would really be decent of you if you would not try to force your opinion on people and allow them to have their own opinion. Many people who read this Board are very intelligent and capable of making their own decision without your help. Why should it have to be the same as yours? You certainly don't have the "smarts area" cornered. Geez !  Think about it.

Let's stay on topic and not each other, please.  He expressed an opinion the article should be "taken with a grain of salt."  That's a legitimate point of view which anyone is equally free to disagree with.

 

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

Just remember this stuff is flowing into Lake Chapala and nothing flows out of Lake Chapala other than the water being pumped to Guadalajara.

The Lerma River flows INTO Lake Chapala and the Santiago flows OUT of the lake as it goes north of Guadalajara on it's way to the ocean.

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Whoops.  Got my rivers mixed up.  The Lerma is just about as bad, though, isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there has been sufficient water level in Lake Chapala for some time to have actually outflow from the Santiago even though it connects with Lake Chapala south of Ocatlan.

I still wouldn't swim in that lake. :D

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Lots of kidney failure cases reported in children & adults in San Pedro Itzican, a few km away from Mezcala, and also in Mezcala .

University of Guadalajara is studying the probable cause, but it seems related to thermal water used for human consumption and not directly from lake water.

Lake Chapala water is mostly consumed in Guadalajara and if  lake water were the culprit, by this time there would be thousands of kidney failure cases reported in Guad. , although, I don't trust the lake's water quality either .

Joco has reportedly a high incidence of cancer and leukemia, Ajijic has seen some death of young people due to leukemia,  it is believed pesticides used in the berry industries can cause this.

 

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Lymph cancer is also one of the cancer connected with pesticides.. I do not know about here but people working in nursery and in the  fields.. People sprayed for year without protecting themselves and people now are paying the price..

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I'm too lazy to look this up. But recently there was a woman scientist from Harvard University who studied this exact topic as her PHd. dissertation - she found no link to fish from the Lake or the water. The study was on small communities east and south of the Lake - where concentrations should be the highest.The bass which have been introduced to the Lake have very sensitive gills, and they are thriving. Yes, Driscoll Farms had a scandal when pregnant workers weren't properly protected from pesticides and suffered birth defects.  Todd Stong has reported so many times, like a broken record, that the Lake water is fine. What is interesting to me is why people keep insist on inventing these Lake horror stories (for example the murdered Manatees). It has a nasty odour to it all, as in "They can't take care of their own resource, but luckily we can show them the way"

Poor, beautiful old dear, just can't get any respect. The only pollution is from her tears.

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1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

I'm too lazy to look this up. But recently there was a woman scientist from Harvard University who studied this exact topic as her PHd. dissertation - she found no link to fish from the Lake or the water. The study was on small communities east and south of the Lake - where concentrations should be the highest.The bass which have been introduced to the Lake have very sensitive gills, and they are thriving. Yes, Driscoll Farms had a scandal when pregnant workers weren't properly protected from pesticides and suffered birth defects.  Todd Stong has reported so many times, like a broken record, that the Lake water is fine. What is interesting to me is why people keep insist on inventing these Lake horror stories (for example the murdered Manatees). It has a nasty odour to it all, as in "They can't take care of their own resource, but luckily we can show them the way"

Poor, beautiful old dear, just can't get any respect. The only pollution is from her tears.

Holy smokes I actually agree with you Gary.

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4 hours ago, R2D2 said:

University of Guadalajara is studying the probable cause, but it seems related to thermal water used for human consumption and not directly from lake water.

 

If this is related to thermal water--it seems plausible since there are lots of things that are soluble or more soluble as the temperature rises. The problem is disturbing but this possibility makes it much less disquieting. Most of us can avoid drinking thermal water and even those who are currently using thermal water can be warned and avail themselves of alternatives.

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"people keep insist on inventing these Lake horror stories (for example the murdered Manatees)" I don't understand what you are trying to say. The Manatees that were introduced to the lake were caught and killed. It is documented.

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The University of Guadalajara has an ongoing study. At a recent meeting a representative reported that they have studied a small lakeside village, Agua Caliente. With a pop. of 950, they could test the entire village. 67% of the residents had kidney damage. As might be expected multiple causes were noted: Malnutrition, low protein diet (mainly chaiote squash (sp) and fish, pesticides used improperly by agricultural wokers, heavy metals especially lead in the urin samples, lack of access to medical care (no transport to municipal clinic)

Todd Stong has repeatedly said that the arsenic in the well waters is natural leeching from volcanic rock.

 

The Guadalajara Reporter article could provide more detail

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14 hours ago, cedros said:

"people keep insist on inventing these Lake horror stories (for example the murdered Manatees)" I don't understand what you are trying to say. The Manatees that were introduced to the lake were caught and killed. It is documented.

Nope - completely debunked. Was discussed by one council member, found that there is no possible way that the Manatees could survive in Lake Chapala more than a few days, and they do not like to eat lirio. The story is usually told with a cruel smirk, or a rolling of eyes, that it was a solution, but the fishermen killed them for meat. Get where I am going on this one?

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1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

Nope - completely debunked. Was discussed by one council member, found that there is no possible way that the Manatees could survive in Lake Chapala more than a few days, and they do not like to eat lirio. The story is usually told with a cruel smirk, or a rolling of eyes, that it was a solution, but the fishermen killed them for meat. Get where I am going on this one?

How about citing a reference here?  Every source I can find does not agree with your story on this

 

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1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

Nope - completely debunked. Was discussed by one council member, found that there is no possible way that the Manatees could survive in Lake Chapala more than a few days, and they do not like to eat lirio. The story is usually told with a cruel smirk, or a rolling of eyes, that it was a solution, but the fishermen killed them for meat. Get where I am going on this one?

Well I've seen detailed photos of the captured manatees, fishermen, etc. Check your facts before you post.

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This has been discussed at great length, with even Tony Burton weighing in. There was a marine biologist from Mexico City who said it may be possible. This was a long time ago. Either the picture was staged in the Caribbean area, or the Manatees were introduced to the Lake and died in a very short time. Of course if this actually happened, which I doubt, it was a massive embarrassment to the scientist and then a massive coverup to follow. This was the norm back then, also massive public money making cons. There is no way Manatees can live in the Lake. This is an absolute fact. Any scientist, especially a marine biologist, should have known better. For a start Manatees like a mix of salt and fresh water, for another thing, they have a very specific diet, of which the Lake has not a single species. Tony found an old photo, as you describe, but there was no back story, no documentation - which is very strange for a large financial undertaking of this size to take place. It was only mentioned once in Chapala Council minutes, as a talking point, and never raised again.

A species of Hippo, may able to settle in the Lake, and eat Lirio, but these are now causing massive problems after being introduced to Colombia by Pablo Escobar.

There's your facts - take it from there.

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Manatees are primarily herbivores. They feed on a wide variety of submerged, emergent, floating, and shoreline vegetation. Manatees in Florida feed on more than 60 species of plants including turtle grass, manatee grass, shoal grass, mangrove leaves, various algae, water hyacinth, acorns, and hydrilla.

https://seaworld.org/en/animal-info/animal-infobooks/manatee/diet-and-eating-habits

All the references also indicate that Manatees can live in either salt, brackish or fresh water and in fact require the latter for hydration.

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The introduction of manatees or sea-cows to control the hyacinth was successful in Guyana but elsewhere, the manatees found the hyacinth less tasty than other available plants. In Chapala, the manatee was quickly fished to extinction.

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/1263-did-you-know-lake-chapala-under-attack-from-water-hyacinth

A Tony Burton reference.

Still waiting for you to cite some reference for your statements.  Everything I find on this topic seem to contradict your assertions.

 

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Tony Burton wrote in 2009 that there was no proof one way or the other

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=127170

My argument is that if it did happen, there would have to be some sort of paper trail - there is not even a scrap. If it did happen, it was misinformed scientists which killed them, not superstitious fishermen.

I tried to find the Marine Biologist at UNM. He does not exist - how about that?

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Chillin, not sure why you'd think there would be a paper trail in Mexico but that link is certainly interesting reading, thanks for putting it up.

Something else that fascinated me when reading up on these critters is that they are related to the elephant family.

Based on my reading, I would think such a critter would have a hard time in this lake, even if protected, because of the level fluctuation alone.  It does appear they'd find the local lake vegetation to their liking.  

And of course there's the poacher problem.

Perhaps the Presidente could be interested in conjuring up some sort of Lake Chapala Manatee version of the Loch Ness Monster.  What is critical here is not that we would actually have Manatees but that we'd have numerous people CLAIMING we have Manatees and putting up suitably blurry photos as verification.  Photoshop is our friend here.

Eventually we could get a big tour boat and sell boat rides to TRY and see the "elusive" Manatees.

It's all in the marketing, folks! :D

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It could have also been an attempted fraud, although I have no proof of that whatsover. It wouldn't be the first. A bunch of taxpayer money wasted on a "solution" for something which will never work, was never even mean't to work, ending up with a fake biologist living out an easy life somewhere in the Caribbean.

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From Tony Burton 2015 October 6th on Chapala.com;

I have absolutely no doubt that manatees were introduced into Lake Chapala.

The primary document about their introduction to the lake is a paper published in 1964 by Daniel Llueh Belda, Laurence Irving and Michael Pilson, "Algunas observaciones sobre mamiferos acuaticos" pulished by the Secretaria de Industria y Comercio. In Section C of that document it describes the protocols used, concluding that "The five transported specimens were released, all healthy, in Lake Chapala. Except for one large animal which had to be propelled into deeper water because it had been released in shallow water... the others all swam rapidly away from the release point,"

The article also has a couple of tragic photos showing manatees subsequently fished from the lake.

The manatees had been captured originally in a lagoon near Palenque, Chiapas, and transferred to Lake Chapala on board a C-47 of the Mexican by Air Force.

You may well be correct that manatees prefer warmer water than Lake Chapala, but the annual seasonal range of temperature (Limon et al, 1989) (for the water in the lake) is from 21 to 23 degrees C, which should be more than warm enough for manatees to survive, even if possibly not enjoy their preferred level of warmth.

Re Manatees eating water hyacinth. The only studies i know of found (in a controlled experiment) that water hyacinth was one of the last choices a manatee would opt for, if other plants were present.

Re Water hyacinth and its potential use for garden compost. The big issue with the water hyacinth on Lake Chapala is its levels of heavy metals. Using it as compost would transfer these heavy metals into the soil, and potentially into garden plants. While this is outside my area of expertise, this probably does not matter much for flowers, but could be a potential health issue as regards fruit and vegetables.

I do indeed have a copy of the document I mentioned earlier in this thread - Daniel Llueh Belda, Laurence Irving and Michael Pilson, 1964. "Algunas observaciones sobre mamiferos acuaticos" pulished by the Secretaria de Industria y Comercio. [Section C of that document describes the protocols used, concluding that "The five transported specimens were released, all healthy, in Lake Chapala. Except for one large animal which had to be propelled into deeper water because it had been released in shallow water... the others all swam rapidly away from the release point,"]

 

The photographer of the three photos captioned as relating to Lake Chpala in that article is  "G. Guijarro" - if anyone knows any more about this photographer, or can suggest potential leads, then please let me know.

 

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Oh well - another flip flop. I will follow up on some of these leads. At least he (Todd or Tony?) could scan the picture and share with others. My main point of interest has always been who killed the Manatees - misguided scientists or superstitious fishermen?

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