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Unfair Policies Against Foreigners

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Two recent things have me up in arms, the first is the very dumb policy by immigration and not the municipal government of Chapala to delay the giving out of peoples immigration cards unless they go to a photo opp ceremony with the mayor.  This ceremony is tomorrow and many people cannot go to Ajijic.  This is criminal as the Jalisco State Penal Code lists this type of activity under Abuse of Authority, they dont get that foreigners legally here cannot function without their immigration cards, they cannot

1) Buy or sell real estate

2) Buy or sell vehicles

3) Cannot fly out of the country

4) Cannot grant a will

5) Cannot open a bank account or in many cases withdraw money.

6) Cannot get or renew a driver license and their cars are subject to impound

7) Cannot apply for or renew Seguro Popular or IMSS health insurance.

Foreigners are effectively held hostage for the mayors photo opp program and it isnt fair the mayor wants to show off at a cost of breaking the law and negatively affecting the lives of foreigners. 

Immigration was doing this and we called the Secretary of Public Function and they said it was wrong and if they insisted they would lose their jobs but now the mayor has the same bright idea that was poorly thought out. 

La administración del presidente Javier Degollado está incurriendo en el delito de ABUSO DE AUTORIDAD, Articulo 146, fracciones IV, V y VI del Código Penal de Estado de Jalisco con su requisito que los extranjeros NO pueden recoger sus tarjetas de migración (aparte de violar sus derechos humanos), tienen que esperar y desde la semana pasada están obligados ir a una ceremonia este viernes en Ajijic tipo "photo opp" para la publicidad del presidente, no obstante que el extranjero sin su documento migratorio no puede funcionar ni hacer cualquier acto jurídico incluyendo, en forma enunciativa y no limitativa como:
1) No puede comprar ni vender bienes inmuebles
2) No puede comprar ni vender vehículos
3) No puede viajar afuera del país
4) No puede otorgar testamento
5) No puede abrir cuentas bancarias ni retirar fondos

6) No puede solicitar ni renovar licencia de conducir

7) No pueden adquirir ni renovar sus pólizas de seguro médico con IMSS ni Seguro Popular.

La administración del presidente Javier Degollado está incurriendo en el delito de ABUSO DE AUTORIDAD, Articulo 146, fracciones IV, V y VI del Código Penal de Estado de Jalisco con su requisito que los extranjeros NO pueden recoger sus tarjetas de migración, están obligados ir a una ceremonia en Ajijic tipo "photo opp" para la publicidad del presidente, no obstante que el extranjero sin su documento migratorio no puede funcionar ni hacer cualquier acto jurídico.
 

Los extranjeros tienen sus vidas detenidas para que el presidente pueda presumir fotos con la comunidad sin tomar en cuenta que sus vidas están detenidas y afectadas por la falta del documento que es obligatorio en muchos tramites para acreditar su legal estancia en el país.

Migración dice por ordenes del presidente municipal no pueden recoger sus tarjetas antes del evento este viernes y si no pueden ir pueden ir a sus oficinas el próximo viernes dejando muchos en pánico y semanas sin documentos.

Artículo 146. Comete el delito de abuso de autoridad todo servidor público, sea cual fuere su categoría que incurra
en alguno de los casos siguientes:

VI. Cuando, indebidamente, retarde o niegue a los particulares la protección o servicio que tenga obligación de
prestarles, o impida la presentación o el curso de una solicitud;
IV. Cuando ejecute, autorice o permita cualquier acto atentatorio a los derechos garantizados por la Constitución
Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, y por la del Estado;
V. Cuando el encargado de una fuerza pública, requerido legalmente por una autoridad para que le preste auxilio,
se niegue indebidamente a dárselo;

 

Codigo Penal Federal
Abuso de autoridad
Artículo 215.- Cometen el delito de abuso de autoridad los servidores públicos que incurran en alguna de las conductas siguientes:
III.- Cuando indebidamente retarde o niegue a los particulares la protección o servicio que tenga obligación de otorgarles o impida la presentación o el curso de una solicitud;

 
Ley de Migracion
CAPÍTULO II
DE LAS CAUSAS PARA SANCIONAR A LOS SERVIDORES PÚBLICOS DEL INSTITUTO
Artículo 140. Los servidores públicos del Instituto serán sancionados por las siguientes conductas:
I. Sin estar autorizados, den a conocer cualquier información de carácter confidencial o reservado;
II. Dolosamente o por negligencia retrasen el trámite normal de los asuntos migratorios;
 
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Perhaps, this is to show how well foreigners are treated versus Trump's policies.  

A nice photo-op, but maybe misguided.

" If you put the government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
 

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I think comparing the treatment of illegals in the U.S., to a photo opp for foreigners obtaining legal status in MX, is quite a stretch of the situation.  DIF insisted on the same photo opp ceremony at LSC before handing out cards. Two years ago, immigration had a ceremony, held at LSC, before handing out hundreds of permanente cards.

Not everything happening in the world should be blamed on the U.S. president.  These ceremonies, albeit inconvenient, perhaps illegal as Spencer noted, are cultural, not retalitory as suggested in the above post. They didn't just start with the election of a new U.S. president.

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This sounds like one of those police stings in the states, where they send out notifications to all outstanding warrant subjects saying they won a prize or something.  Then one-by-one the scofflaws come into the room where they are shackled and led off to jail.

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This is not new. It has been going on for years and more than one administration. It seems to happen whenever the Mayor of Chapala, regardless of who it is or their political affiliation, needs a photo op with expats for whatever reason. Not sure I understand why it is suddenly a big deal.

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Not to be political, but I will note the policies NOB are simply to enforce laws that have been on the books for decades, much as Mexico enforces it's laws - as we all know. Now, photo ops seems more than a bit self serving, I never was required to do that and frankly I never considered getting my card as having anything to do with the mayor, had I known that I'd have been at his door demanding to get my card in 2 weeks instead of 2 months (which BTW cost me my $300 TIP deposit).

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UPDATE 11:00AM.  The number 2 guy at immigration called me and said they want to reach out to the foreign community and as they would have federal, state and municipal authorities there it would be better to have a good turn out as the government officials were going to the event.  I explained the position of many people that couldn't get cards last week and this week if they cant make it to the event that they would have to wait until next week, and was told that those who cant go tomorrow can go Monday or Tuesday to pick up their cards and don't need to wait or of they have an urgent matter they can go today.

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I am not sure if this is the same thing but you have to go through a citizenship ceremony in any country before you get the citizenship card. In Canada you do. Maybe not a photo opp ceremony but nevertheless. a ceremony . It is symbolic.

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You do not have to do that in Mexico. You may be invited at a ceremony with the President but that does not hold back your citizenship, anyways this is not a citizenship issue but a visa issue where you can be in limbo if you do not get it in time.

The Presidente probably does not know the ramification of delays and just wanted to make sure to have a good turn out for his photo op..I am sure he did not intend to cause problems.

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I guess left hand and right hand dont speak, I told client about my call and she said...

Very interesting as lies go!! I went today and waited over an hour to be told they couldn't give it to me, even though they knew I wanted to leave in the morning, because they only give them out on Friday!! So she said come back tomorrow at 9.

If you know Sr. Numero Dos, could you let him know that this is no way to run any government department and ask him to call the local office to make sure they give me the visa tomorrow? The government's need for a photo opportunity is no reason to make someone who is sick spend half a week in their office.

Sorry to involve you but what a mess. All of this to simply replace a visa that was already in the system!

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I must say,you are not getting much support on facebook especially from the Mexican community.Is it really important enough of an issue to peez off a whole bunch of Mexicans.citizens as well as gov't officials who you must deal with on behalf of clients? An English speaker even quoted a certain Shakespeare play/line and suggested a similarity to Don Quixote. Before everybody jumps all over me,Spencer and I are friends as well as he being my lawyer and no you won't find me under this name on facebook nor the person who is unmentionable[unless you are a friend of his] but he is also a friend of Spencer.

K  Mc

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7 hours ago, jh5127 said:

Perhaps, this is to show how well foreigners are treated versus Trump's policies.  

A nice photo-op, but maybe misguided.

" If you put the government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
 

Hey, give us a break on your "Trump prejudice" ! He plans to treat foreigners EXACTLY how Mexico treats them (They Must follow the law of the land they are in). So, get your facts straight, bud ! Otherwise, you are just pissin' into the wind !

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What's the big deal.... Many countries make you attend a ceremony when you receive your resident card.. It hand to you by a government official who shakes your hand and welcomes you to your new country.. And poses for a photo with you... Has anyone actually asked if they would an exception for someone who had a good reason... I bet not...

Just about all of us are retired and have time on our hands.... 

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Believe me, the letter of the law is well known NOB - and that's why some folks are worried. I saw a half dozen stories today about how they're preparing in case they get caught. Also, the number jumping to Canada is way up, so it's no mystery. 

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1 hour ago, TelsZ4 said:

What's the big deal.... Many countries make you attend a ceremony when you receive your resident card.. It hand to you by a government official who shakes your hand and welcomes you to your new country.. And poses for a photo with you... Has anyone actually asked if they would an exception for someone who had a good reason... I bet not...

Just about all of us are retired and have time on our hands.... 

The problems are that some people have physical limitations, they live farther away, they don't drive so transportation is difficult and it is a pain to get to there and wait around to have political pictures taken.

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This has happened to us back in 2000. The visas were ready in December, but we did not get them until April 2001.

When we asked in December if the visas were ready they told us "no".  When we got the visas , in my FM2 book, it clearly said

that the visas  were issued in December 2000. Yes, we had a very nice ceremony at City Hall.

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2 hours ago, Joco said:

The problems are that some people have physical limitations, they live farther away, they don't drive so transportation is difficult and it is a pain to get to there and wait around to have political pictures taken.

Don't quite see your point there..  To pick up your card you have to go to INM. When I picked up mine last December I waited 2 hours for my name to be called, There were people using canes..  Even one guy using a walker..  so if you can get to  INM and wait in line to be given your card why can't you wait in line to have your photo taken.... It wait time might even be shorter... Plus they might even serve refreshments. 

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Remember the Chapala Presidente can now run for a second term under the new relaxed term limit law.  So he's doing a little politicking looks like too me.  Nothing much to worry about IMO unlike some of the other stuff Spencer listed.

Frankly, in this environment I would advise newcomers to definitely not buy any real estate in this country until things settle down.  There's a real atmosphere of reprisal building out of this sense of entitlement Mexico seems to have about the U.S. border.

For example:

"Quoted by the WSJ, Mexico’s Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray said at a ceremony on Wednesday 

"We also have control of our borders and we will exercise it fully," he said, adding that Mexico was prepared to go the United Nations to defend the freedoms and rights of Mexicans under international law."

Now I absolutely agree Mexico has the right to decide who comes and what the rules are.  What amazes me is this gentleman doesn't notice that the U.S. has the same right to control their borders and set their rules too.

As far as the purchase of real estate, I believe the U.S. allows any foreign national to buy homes or property there..

Please correct me If it is wrong but I don't know of any international law that allows people to illegally immigrate to another country and stay there if that country decides otherwise.  This isn't like common law marriage where if you hang together long enough you become legal.  

I don't know of any statute of limitations on illegal immigration but again, please correct me if I'm wrong and also include a citation of the national or international laws applicable.

I would like our Chapala Presidente to remind some of these folks that we are a law abiding community when it comes to the Mexican border and also that a lot of local folks depend on the expat community for economic support and investment.

 

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The US has no right to return non Mexicans to Mexico. People move around countries and enter countries illegally but that it is outside of the control of the various government. Dumping illegal in Mexico is a government act and that is a different story. Mexico has the right not to accept non Mexicans to be dumped in their countries because these people transited through Mexico illegally..

 

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The “also“ in the underlined statement indicates that the gentleman actually does “ notice that the U.S. has the same right to control their borders and set their rules too.“

 

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My job isnt to be popular but to fight for the little guy, so many people have mobility issues and to require people to do more than is normally required is not fair and therefore the complaint. 

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22 hours ago, TelsZ4 said:

Don't quite see your point there..  To pick up your card you have to go to INM. When I picked up mine last December I waited 2 hours for my name to be called, There were people using canes..  Even one guy using a walker..  so if you can get to  INM and wait in line to be given your card why can't you wait in line to have your photo taken.... It wait time might even be shorter... Plus they might even serve refreshments. 

If someone is riding the bus, he can get out right at the Chapala INM.  For LCS he must walk a few blocks. The INM office has seating. It depends on where one must wait at LCS for seating. Taking a cab and catching one when leaving the Chapala INM is easy, at LCS one must walk a block or two. Some people don't want their pictures taken with politicians. They think that is an invasion of their privacy.

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