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tortillas de harina


Stymie

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Are they really? I just got some the other day at the surtidor in Riberas, and I would have sworn they were flour. Flour is much more often used these days because of the price.

EDIT: Read on to learn what a mistake I made with this assumption.

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There's a little shop across from El Negro's tattoo place in Chapala, on the corner opposite the new Farm Guad heading back into town... she makes lunches of various kinds, and at Christmas I needed some tortillas for home-made tacos. She sold us a stack of true, thick, medium-sized corn tortillas that had so much more flavour than the typical flour ones.

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Corn tortillas are most often made with white corn hominy, and it is grown in Mexico. The yellow, more tasty corn is called "dent" corn, and is mostly imported from the U.S.A. (where it is highly subsidized and most often GMO these days). The "dent" corn is also sweeter, so it is useful for fattening up livestock. There is wheat grown in Mexico, even "hard" wheat in Northern Mexico - but it does not have the taste or high gluten of Canadian or northern U.S.A. wheat. A thin wheat tortilla would require high gluten. Luckily, wheat gluten is available as an additive.

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14 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

Are they really? I just got some the other day at the surtidor in Riberas, and I would have sworn they were flour. Flour is much more often used these days because of the price.

 

That's definitely not true. lol Everyone is still using corn tortillas.

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Hmmm, I may have to apologize for getting it wrong. I thought I knew my tortillas; I guess I don't. You're saying that the tortillerias in Ajijic, in town and on the highway, and in San Antonio and various other places, use corn flour instead of white flour?

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Easy mistake to make - some are very white, I think those are the ones made from the dried masa flour. The tostados are typically very yellow, as are the handmade corn tortillas, made from the "dent" corn. Then the blue corn tortillas. My doctor, always admiring my emerging physique, says to be careful with tostados, some of them have wheat flour to help hold them together, and this means more carbs/calories. Made some homemade Armenian flat breads today. Anybody want to hear that story (on a different thread). Here is a teaser https://www.yahoo.com/style/50-most-delish-flatbreads-155128486.html

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Hmm, I'd like to get this straight... ALL tortillas are made from flour, so we need to differentiate between corn flour and wheat flour. Masa is a Spanish word meaning dough, but in Mexico it is generally used to mean corn flour, right? (And of course we have all seen tortillas made with whole wheat and even nopales flour.)

My mistake comes from assuming (thanks for the note, Chillin) that tortillas made from corn are going to be yellow, and when made from wheat, white. So my final question is: the large thin tortillas from places like the one across from Rustica are generally white corn flour?

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I have made many tortillas and flat breads, long before moving here. Indian Nan breads, Chappatis, Roti, etc. I have made from dent corn which has been soaked with chemical lime, then stone ground in our wet grinder. The lime is what you smell in corn tortillas, sort of a flowery scent. The real corn tortillas don't have a lot of gluten, they have to carefully formed in a press, thin, by hand, is very difficult. Machine made is more easily possible. The wheat ones can be worked to translucent thin. To make wheat tortillas, you put a golf ball size in your electric Roti press (also sold as a tortilla press, but it doesn't work well with corn. The best tortillas I made were a hybrid of wheat sourdough and fresh ground Masa, also soured with corn "sour mash" bacteria. This is the next Lavash recipe I will try, substituting avocado oil for olive oil. I am posting so you can see how a properly aged wheat flour can be worked. This is impossible with corn dough. Superlake sells high gluten bread flour by "King Arthur". It is expensive, but a treat once or two a week. There are Mexican "pizza" flours which probably do the same job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_dpYm63jUg

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 2/3/2017 at 1:56 PM, ComputerGuy said:

Tom, thanks, confirming my understanding that most tortillerias do not use corn flour...


I'm sitting here with my jaw on the floor.  Such confusion, over something so ancient and basic to the Mexican diet.  Mexico has been eating pure corn tortillas for thousands of years--since approximately 2000 BC.  Wheat, which the Spanish brought to what is now Mexico in mid-16th century, is a comparative newcomer to the tortilla world and to Mexico's diet in general. 

Approximately 11,000 years ago or earlier, ancient peoples in what is now Mexico domesticated corn from a wild plant called teocintle.  The domestication of corn was the initiation of settlement and agriculture here, as opposed to the earlier nomadic practices of hunting and gathering.  Read more about that here:
http://mexicocooks.typepad.com/mexico_cooks/2016/10/corn-an-ancient-gift-from-mexico-to-feed-the-world.html

Once pottery came into being in Mexico (with the Olmecs, approximately 3000 years ago), another process began.  Those early peoples invented the process of preparing nixtamal: simmering (and subsequently soaking overnight) dried corn in a mixture of calcium hydroxide and water until the husk of each individual kernel is softened.  Once the cooking/soaking liquid is washed off, the corn is ready to be ground into masa--in this instance, corn dough--which is used to prepare tortillas, tamales, sopes, and the full range of foods from the corn kitchen.   The process of nixtamaliz-ing corn and grinding it for masa takes many hours and much hard labor on the part of a cook, usually a housewife. 

Masa is the generic word for dough and can mean anything from corn dough to the batter for a wheat flour based cake.  In the case of corn masa, the masa contains ONLY nixtamal-ized corn and enough water to allow for making a malleable dough.

From time immemorial, the tortilla, from home-grown, dried corn to the finished product, has been made at home.  The corn tortilla machine used in most tortillerías today was invented and put into practical use in the first quarter of the 20th century.  In urban areas of modern-day Mexico, most people buy corn tortillas from tortillerías.  MOST tortillas in MOST of Mexico--including Jalisco and of course Ajijic--continue to be made of corn.  Look around Ajijic: you'll see tortillerías in operation, all making corn tortillas.  

The unfortunate truth is that most modern tortillerías in Mexico, including in Ajijic, are no longer making nixtamal for their tortillas.  They're using Maseca (a processed corn flour produced by Grupo Gruma), which makes an inferior masa leading to a tortilla inferior to those made from nixtamalized corn.  Maseca offers incentives to tortillerías to use their corn flour, including painting a Maseca logo on the facade of the tortillería.  Maseca corn flour, used for preparing corn masa at home, is also available at supermarkets.  Maseca is a convenience product.

ComputerGuy, your statement that most tortillerías do not use corn flour is 100% incorrect.  I don't understand where you got that idea, and I don't mean to offend, but...

Wheat flour tortillas originated in northern Mexico, where wheat is grown, and are used very little in central and southern Mexico.  Yes, they are widely available in Ajijic, and yes, it's possible to find them packaged in other parts of central and southern Mexico, but they aren't normally used in the cuisines of these areas.  

The photos below (from the bottom to the top) include: a metate (grinding stone) with corn masa freshly made of blue corn and white corn; bi-color tortillas made of that corn masa, toasting on a clay comal (griddle); white corn tortillas toasting on a clay comal--inflated as they should be.  As they continue to toast, they flatten.  Last, a woman in Tlaxcala making corn masa from nixtamalized corn.  I took this photo yesterday, February 11, 2017.
 

Tortillería Bugs Tlaxcala 1.jpg

Encuentro Tortillas Infladitas.jpg

Encuentro Tortillas Dos Colores.jpg

Encuentro Masa de Dos Colores 1.jpg

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For those (few, I hope!) who may not know, More Liana is the author of perhaps the single greatest online resource for anyone who loves and wants to learn about Mexican cuisine, the world-famous "Mexico Cooks!" blog:

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

We're very fortunate that she participates on this board. 

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4 hours ago, Xena said:

Wow. CG, you got a course in the history of tortillas and tortilla making complete with photos! Whenever a post begins: "approximately 11,000 years ago" I know I am in for some schooling. I was not disappointed.

 

2 hours ago, Kevin K said:

For those (few, I hope!) who may not know, More Liana is the author of perhaps the single greatest online resource for anyone who loves and wants to learn about Mexican cuisine, the world-famous "Mexico Cooks!" blog:

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

We're very fortunate that she participates on this board. 

Aww you guys...thanks for the props!  Much appreciated.  :wub:

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On February 1, 2017 at 0:00 PM, Stymie said:

the burrito place near the airport uses freshly made, very thin flour tortillas.   is there any place closer to ajijic where you can find something similar, burritos or just the tortillas?   gracias

Nice tangent, to be sure. But poor Stymie. His question got lost in a storm of bad info. I'm interested in answers to his original question too since I also like flour tortillas. :P 

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The answer may have gotten lost in the confusion, but there are tortillerias all over the place that sell the thin, large tortillas. The original question is also misleading, because all tortillas are made of a flour base, be it corn, yellow or white, or wheat.

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15 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

The answer may have gotten lost in the confusion, but there are tortillerias all over the place that sell the thin, large tortillas. The original question is also misleading, because all tortillas are made of a flour base, be it corn, yellow or white, or wheat.

ComputerGuy, that's not the case.  Corn tortillas have always been made from freshly nixtamalized corn ground into masa, not made from corn flour.   There is still at least one tortillería in Ajijic which continues to prepare nixtamal and grind it fresh.  Here's the link:
https://guiamexico.mx/elaboracion-de-tortillas-de-maiz-y-molienda-de-nixtamal/1746411/tortilleria-lety

Masa harina (corn flour such as Maseca) is a new and inferior product that is used at many but not all tortillerías to produce corn masa.

When people talk about flour tortillas, what they mean is wheat flour tortillas.  My expertise is primarily about corn tortillas. 

Here's a photo of a huge wheat flour tortilla from Sonora--it's called a sobaquera.  Its claim to fame is it's thinness: one is supposed to be able to read a newspaper through it.  I ate a good bit of the one in the photo.
 

Sobaquera Flour Tortilla.jpg

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