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Backlash


Earl
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The difference between now and the great immigration's of the late 1800's etc. is that those people came to assimilate into the existing culture, not to change it. They knew that a rising tide floats all boats and if they did well, their children would do better in a prospering, unified society. They came to work, not to milk the freebees of the society. It worked. And few people know that The Immigration Act of 1917 largely curtailed immigration into the US until well into mid century for the specific purpose of allowing assimilation of the masses. Today many of the immigrants have no intention of assimilating and you can see the result in Europe which has made what may be a fatal mistake. The US is more fortunate in that many of the immigrants will assimilate and come from cultures with more commonality. I live between two American born Mexicans who are proud of their heritage, but equally proud Americans.

Enforcing existing laws is completely within the rights of the US and MX and all other countries. Who among us lives is a house without walls and doors with locks? Why would we expect our countries to be any different. The primary purpose of a government is to protect its citizens, not to feed the world. I was reminded of that the other night when I watched Titanic. One of the lifeboats was partially filled and some passengers wanted to go back and rescue some still in the water but the crewman in charge of the boat said "no, they'll swamp us and we'll all die". A hard reality, but probably a correct assessment of the situation. Yes, selectively immigration is a good thing, but not like it's been allowed in the past years both in the US, CA and the EU, they will swamp the existing cultures with beliefs and traditions that are totally alien, ultimately destroying the very destination that originally drew them.

 

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12 hours ago, suegarn said:

The reason that the rest of the world doesn't seem to care about how many are killed in Mexico, as opposed to the amount in the U.S., is because it is infinitestimal compared to the amount of killings in the U.S!  

"Mexico's homicide rate is infinitestimal compared to the amount of killings in the U.S! "  NOT

The murder rate in Mexico in 2016 was 17 per 100K population total homicides 21,216. While the murder rate in the USA was 5 per 100K population <16,000.

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12 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Not sure how we got on the murder rate but I wonder what it would look like if (1) accurately reported; and (2) the strictly narco on narco killings were subtracted out.

 

Admittedly the numbers would be different but so would the USA which would be only 3.1 per 100K if african american perps were omitted. It would also be quite different if you didn't count these historically democrat cites Chicago, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore and Detriot.

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10 hours ago, MtnMama said:

While I agree the woman who refused to allow English was being harsh, I think of all the times I have interacted with Mexican bureaucrats using my fractured Spanish and a bit of Spanglish and a little English, and gotten my task done. I think of how an elderly Mexican with limited English would generally be treated in a similar situation NOB and my heart breaks.

I agree with Ezpz, Mexicans all along the parade route were waving and cheering.

I pan to continue wearing my "I'm With Her" and "Nasty Woman" t-shirts and expect to get along just fine.

" I think of how an elderly Mexican with limited English would generally be treated in a similar situation NOB and my heart breaks." I don't know where in the States this woman would have a horrible outcome do you. I think all government forms are in Spanish, English and 3 or 4 other languages. Heck in the USA even the Target and Walmart's department signs are in Spanish and English.

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From the OP: "I do not want or intend to get a discussion of politics going but simply want to comment on what happened to me and a friend today at a government office in Chapala and to find out if others have experienced anything similar from officials or locals." For a board that prides itself on rules to keep people on topic and strictly no politics this thread has been quite a hoot.

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Yesterday I went to Profeco to file a complaint against the drycleaner that had a fire. Two Mexican friends went with me. When we got there we were told to come back tomorrow at 8 30 as they see 50 people a day. When my friend told them I do much for the community, we were seen within a half hour. Couldn't be friendlier!

 

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14 minutes ago, HookEmHorns said:

Don't you find it very interesting that Pena Nieto declares strongly that Mexico and Mexicans DO NOT BELIEVE in Walls? Pretty strong words. Just wonder if that is the real truth, or that is just to impress, as most of his words seem to be. If he is telling the truth, why do Mexicans have WALLS around their property? I think NOB plans to move ahead with or without Mexico, and I think that was a mandate from the voters who elected the new guy. I don't think NOB is too worried about Backlash. If they find any problems, we will be advised by the Security Reports, as usual.

 

I find it suprising that President Pena Neito doesn't demand a wall. A wall could have prevented atty gen Eric Holder from wholesale shipping of guns to cartels in Mexico. Not sure why Mexico hasn't indicted Holder and demanded extradition?

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Four incidents of backlash I have witnessed.  Three incidents were incited by Americans who were running at the mouth with their political opinions in the presence of Mexicans and myself in Mexican businesses.  The fourth time I was alone walking and some Mexicans were watching the inauguration on TV at a liquor store. As I passed by one came out and yelled at me some  strong words.  Only because I was a gringo I assume.  I turned around to approach him but before I got there,  the other Mexicans in the store who all know me well, jumped the guy.  They had my back.  He was stunned, he apologized, and quickly left.  The trend I see now with my Mexican friends who are storekeepers is if clients are disrespectful with them, they fully intend to call the police and file a report with immigration.  I heard this from three store managers in Ajijic today.  Many Americans tend to have an attitude that they are doing Mexicans a big favor by spending money with them.  That means nothing to them if you are disrespectful.  I always point out to my Mexican friends to not take it personal, in fact, the Americans tend to treat each other with disrespect.   

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Yes, most Mexicans in this area are pretty easy going, it is not in their nature to display hostility, or hold it deep inside. They don't do grudges - well except for that stinking, low down Lopez family, who stole my great, great, grandfather's burro.

Anyways - we love it here. The first meeting with Immigration in Puerto Vallarta, I told them that I want to immigrate to Mexico, how can WE make that happen. I would hate to have to return to Canada, and there is nowhere in the U.S.A. I would want to live - even if I was welcomed. I don't follow politics much any more, but I do know in gardening it takes peace, love and warmth for a successful garden. If some neighbourhood bully comes along and stomps all over your garden. You just start over - with the same successful formula.

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What I think happened in this thread was that all the bottled up opinions about who was elected and what various folks on here think about the policies being promoted were finally allowed to explode into posts.  All things considered, it was fairly civilized, IMO.  The problem that always arises in political discussions is that the inflexible opinions people hang onto are, as in religion, "faith based".  As the results of the current political policies are put into place, it will be very evident whether good was done for the few or for the many.   I'll bet on the rich getting richer.  Don't they always? 

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22 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

I've always felt a fair compromise would be for the U.S. to adopt Mexico's immigration laws.  Mexico looks out for its citizens first and that is one of the things I appreciate about it.  IMHO it is government's duty to put it's own people first and a country's right to determine who is allowed to enter.

We are not entitled to come here uninvited without resources, take jobs from Mexicans or become dependent on the few social services here.  That is how it should be and no one should be surprised if the U.S. with it surplus of labor might decide that enough is enough.  When you get right down to it, there's a backlash going on in a lot of places over uninvited guests these days.

I also appreciate that Mexico has an official language.  Language is an important unifying factor for a culture and a nation.  The lesson of the Tower of Babel seems to have been forgotten NOB.  If they want to insist on that language in official actions, that is their right.

It will be interesting to see what language they want to speak when we show up to pay our taxes and water bills. :)

We need to keep our cool, keep our noses clean, be polite and let this thing work its way out.  Remember this country is taxing imports 16 percent and this board has had many thread about how routine stuff is held up, rejected or stolen at the border.  The media has been full of pictures of people streaming into the U.S. uninvited.  I can't imagine why anyone would be surprised that a backlash hasn't finally shown up there.

And how we vote is our private business.

 

Very well said, Mainecoons!

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17 hours ago, Lexy said:

I kind of feared and expected this. I'm hoping this woman civil servant isn't typical.She is out of line. But I think it requires us to respond emphatically and politely to a person like her that not every American living here voted for Trump. I think many Mexicans realize most expats here loath this president.

Lexy

And this is a problem that many others have...that YOUR opinion is the "right" one. I couldn't believe the number of times people would start a conversation - perfect strangers! - and  just assume that you agree with their particular political viewpoint. We all have one and we should keep them to ourselves rather than assuming that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

The civil servant was out of line. All you can do is be polite and leave, if necessary. FWIW, I've found most Mexicans to go overboard in trying to help us. Like anywhere you live, there are always going to be people angry about something. Life is too short to get worked up over it.

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in Mexico is easy to hire a translator....for the tramits that are needed.

 

 

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5 hours ago, geeser said:

People have  a right to go where there are enough resources to support them?  There is no such "RIGHT" stated anwhere. They have no more right to go to resources than they have a right to your house and posessions.

It never has had to be stated-it is so obvious. A basic human right-like the right to breathe. Borders are artifical lines that only divide people so governments can control them better.

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5 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

Hey, whatever happened to Earl, the OP, who began all this by saying he didn't want to start a political discussion... ?

He has removed himself to an undisclosed location. He could deal with hostile Mexicans but this is a whole other story.

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