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Earl
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The U.S. is not "lax" in its border policies; it is generous and welcoming and has been since the beginning. And why should the U.S. have "reciprocal" laws every time they don't like something? What is this, some sandbox game? This is how wars get started.

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I have a novel idea, and to elaborate on something Sonia pointed out. If we really don't want undocumented immigrants in the US, how about we pass and enforce laws against hiring illegals in the USA!  I mean if we are serious, how about starting with a $10,000 fine and 5 years in prison for any employer that hires anyone undocumented, per "illegal" head.  We could instantly put an end to this charade of "protecting our borders" without having to lift one brick or spend one cent (or centavo as the case may be) in doing so.  Overnight you'd have millions migrating back down south to avoid starving in the US for lack of a job.  But oh no, the blame is put on the poor bum that is only looking to feed himself and his family instead of these construction and agriculture industry moguls who for the most part, happen to be the constituents of those presently in power.  The solution couldn't be simpler.  And if truly serious, we'd just have to accept the demise of the economies of a few of our States like Washington and California who's economies largely depend on agriculture and the impact that would have on the availability of fresh food in the US and wider world.  Classic case of having one cake and wanting to eat it too.  The hypocrisy is shameless and boundless…….!

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While I agree the woman who refused to allow English was being harsh, I think of all the times I have interacted with Mexican bureaucrats using my fractured Spanish and a bit of Spanglish and a little English, and gotten my task done. I think of how an elderly Mexican with limited English would generally be treated in a similar situation NOB and my heart breaks.

I agree with Ezpz, Mexicans all along the parade route were waving and cheering.

I pan to continue wearing my "I'm With Her" and "Nasty Woman" t-shirts and expect to get along just fine.

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7 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

That sounds correct, but I was referring to the picture showing people lined up on both sides of the fence, not the street march. Meantime, thanks for taking the time to do that search.

Oh god--I'm sorry, I never saw the other picture.  I hate when I do that.  

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Trump made a change by Executive Order yesterday that will make a lot of difference.  Before if you came from south of Mexico and got caught, they deported you to your home country.  Not anymore.  If you cross from Mexico and get caught, you will be "Mexican" and dumped back in Mexico.  They will be "Mexicos problem".

They're serious about this because they fired most of the top layer at the State Department and the head of border security, all Obama appointees.

My guess is that within a few months, Mexico will have a lot of people from south of Mexico, camped out in the border areas with no place to go.

Trump also wants to hire 5000 more border guards.  The US can never stop 100% but they can do much better

 

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7 hours ago, geeser said:

Sorry thiat is just not possible in Mexico, they have laws against forigners protesting, getting involved in politics and flying anther country's flag. Do not pass go, go to jail and await deportation. Shouldn't we have recipicol laws? Boy, would the USA be ahead if we deported foreign agitators and trouble makers.

Not true and another myth. The reference to foreigners pertains to politics, running for political office, being involved in elections. Many expats legally and rightfully protest in this country. Here is San Miguel for example there is a very active expat community working for the betterment of all.

 

 

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mudgirl you have some interesting observations that I agree with. I think most people are missing the larger picture of human immigration. I posted about it but it was deleted. I will try posting it again and see what happens.

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The world is overpopulated with humans-we are a plague. People need to move to places where they will have a better life. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years. In the last few hundred years governments have tightened their borders to try and stop this economic migration but in the long run it is doomed to fail. Bureaucrats cannot stop it-it is a human need and right.

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Cedros, history both agrees with and disagrees with your statement.  For example, the Swiss have defended their borders successfully for centuries.

For certain, history tells us that those who procreate the most generally do move in on those who do not and nations which do not defend their borders vigorously will be taken over by outsiders.  Mexico lost a big chunk of territory this way.  At some point they may be able to take it back if the U.S. falters.

I think we are entering a period of extreme unrest and war driven by overpopulation and competition for resources and jobs.  As always, some cultures will win and some will lose.  Human history is a long series of rises and falls.   Most of us have lived through the population boom caused by technology which enabled many more people to be fed and housed.  We may be at the beginning of a population bust brought on by the collapse of the order that made the boom possible.

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14 hours ago, cedros said:

I didn't have to jump through any hoops to get my Permanente. Just fill out paperwork and pay.

That's not exactaly true, You did have to show that you had enough money to live here and not be a burden on Mexican society. You understood that you would not receive the freebys that are standard in the USA. I believe that any country has the duty to control it's borders to be a country. I also believe any country has the right to decide who can live there and may decide what benefits will be included with the permission to be there. 

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3 hours ago, Sonia said:

Not true and another myth. The reference to foreigners pertains to politics, running for political office, being involved in elections. Many expats legally and rightfully protest in this country. Here is San Miguel for example there is a very active expat community working for the betterment of all.

 

 

Sonia, your post is correct but missing the key.  The reference to foreigners pertains to MEXICAN politics, running for office in MEXICO, and being involved in the MEXICAN electoral process.  Further, foreigners are prohibited from participating in demonstrations either for or against the MEXICAN government.  

I stress the 'Mexican' part due to confusion about foreigners' participation last Saturday in the Womens March on Washington.  Here in Mexico City, many foreigners--foreigners from many countries--were nervous about their right to join together in what amounted to a stand-in in front of the United States Embassy here.  Once people were assured that the gathering was not related to MEXICAN politics and that Mexican law does not prohibit protesting actions by another government, we ended up with quite a crowd.

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Mexico has had a "free ride" for many years and now that is coming to an end, or at least being curtailed significantly. That hurts, no matter how you slice it. However I do think Nieto was forced into a no win situation a bit too early in the chess match. But, as a good lesson in what we can expect in the future this paragraph and article probably well describe what we're seeing.

http://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2017/01/26/draft-n2276792
His style is not Washingtonian, but is born out of the dog-eat-dog world of Manhattan real estate. Trump's
blustering way of doing business is as brutal as it is nontraditional: Do not initiate attacks, but hit back
twice as hard -- and low -- once targeted. Go off topic and embrace obstreperousness to unsettle an
opponent. And initially demand triple of what is eventually acceptable to settle a deal.


As an example, the 20% tariff was just a number thrown out for reaction and of course it definitely got reaction. But you have to realize the new guy at the top is the "Gunslinger" and he does things in a different way. Maybe he's not as diplomatic or polished as some would like him to be, but "results count" when the final bell rings. I'd be willing to bet that in 6 months or a year we'll all have learned how the new chess match is played and all will be well.

NOTE: (For some of you not familiar with my term "Gunslinger", it's one I coined nearly 18 months ago during the Primaries). Remember the old western movies, when the town was totally corrupt and even the sheriff was useless, the town Fathers got together and hired a gunslinger to come in and clean up the place. He wasn't the most polished character, you probably wouldn't find him at a Sunday ice cream social and you really don't want your daughter dating him, but he's there for a single purpose and that's to clean up the town. Once the job is done, he was paid and bid "thank you and goodbye". Well, the "Gunslinger" has been hired and now the job begins, it's going to be a rough ride at times and like making sausage, you probably don't want to see it close up, but the "results count".

 

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Well, I can't see how anyone here can complain if the U.S. chooses to match the 16 percent tax Mexico slaps on U.S. imports, not to mention holding stuff up or just stealing it at the border.  Some of you may recall the thread on this board about the poor dying lady who wanted to be buried in her wedding dress but no carrier would bring it in because Mexico prohibits "used" clothing imports.  What kind of silly protectionism is that?

Or how about the car business?  To protect the car seller cartel, Mexico prohibits the importation of used cars and hassles the heck out of a few expats driving U.S. cars.  Mexican consumers would certainly benefit from better car prices and U.S. cars have superior emission and crash protection.

You know there's something wrong when most companies in the U.S. won't ship to Mexico but almost all ship to Canada.  Something is out of whack.

I recently tried to order a simple microwave platter from the U.S. to replace a broken one on a microwave we bought here from Costco.  Quotes from suppliers there delivered here ranged as high as $138.  I had my brother bring it down for $24 after it was delivered at his house.

When the two leaders met before the election I was optimistic that maybe some deal making could happen that would curb these disparities while preserving and strengthening the overall relationship.  I've not given up on that yet.  

First and foremost I believe border security needs to be established for the good of both countries.  Basically the border cities of Mexico have become cartel crime camps for transporting people and drugs into the U.S; and transporting guns and corrupting money into Mexico.  If these activities can really be curtailed with serious border security, those people might be able to reclaim their communities.  For certain, with the current situation, that isn't going to happen.

The U.S. has been taking more immigrants than all the rest of the world combined.  Aside from the ruling elite, I think the people up there have simply had enough of this and the pressure built up to the breaking point.  Unfortunately, as with all reactions of this type, there will be excess in the opposite direction.

 

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15 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

CG, you are engaging in speculation.  What is going on at the U.S. border is physical reality.  There's nothing imaginary about it.  The crossing rate has gone as high as a 1000 per day or more.  

Here's the data:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016

Of course as a Canadian it is hard for you to relate to this as nothing like it exists on the U.S. and Canadian border.

Canada has something like 200,000 illegal immigrants in total.

It's funny, all those posturing claimants who were going to leave the U.S. over the election are still there.  LOL

 

But of the thousand or so celebreties who said that if DJT was elected they would leave the USA and move to Canada. Why didn't they see Mexico as a desirable destination, or they don't like Mexicans?

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14 hours ago, cedros said:

Another viewpoint. As people are a plague on the earth-there are just a way too many of us and the numbers are growing rapidly. People must move to somewhere where they can have a better life. Us humans have been doing it for thousands of years. Governments try to put up artificial barriers which are doomed to fail in the end. People have  a right to go where there are enough resources to support them. No bureaucrats will be able to stop this process in the end. 

People have  a right to go where there are enough resources to support them?  There is no such "RIGHT" stated anwhere. They have no more right to go to resources than they have a right to your house and posessions.

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4 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

Trump a gunslinger? The gunslingers in the Westerns I saw were not misogynist, racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, xenophobic, sexist liars favouring nepotism.

No, they were usually the type of men who eventually settled down with the schoolteacher and behaved themselves thereafter; at least in the movies.

I agree that a "gunslinger" was elected on the promise of cleaning up the mess.  However, my worry is that some of those ideas, particularly protective tariffs, are going to hurt the U.S. economy.  Take a trip down memory lane to 1930, where the end result was deepening the Great Depression.

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Beautifully and accurately stated, Sonia.  ¡Buen hecho!

The level of ignorance, on the part of most expats, regarding the country they live in, is absolutely amazing.  In fact, most seem to know very little of their own home country‘s history; like the fact that Californians of Mexican heritage are mostly native Californians; native Americans in a place that was Mexico. They are not immigrants! They never moved!  We invaded, didn‘t we?  No wonder they proudly march and celebrate their heritage & culture, as they are entitled to do; including language.  Now, in NYC and other places, you may see Italian Americans march on Columbus Day with Italian flags, but they did immigrate, as did many other nationalities.  My own ancestors did, too, with the exception of the Mohawks.  Where is their flag? Well, it straddles the US-Canadian border, just as other nations straddle the US-Mexican border. They do not want walls built across their nation‘s lands, which lie in both countries.  Would you?  Let us not become divided, as we will quickly fall apart; not just with our neighbors, but with our own. Yet, we must be very careful to avoid marching to an irrational drummer, which could lead to the sound of other boots approaching: drumpf, drumpf, drumpf, drumpf.  History warns of of such things, and many of us should review the history of the world as written by several authors, of several nationalities, and with somewhat varied points of view.  It can be enlightening.

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6 minutes ago, geeser said:

People have  a right to go where there are enough resources to support them?  There is no such "RIGHT" stated anwhere. They have no more right to go to resources than they have a right to your house and posessions.

I think that the meaning was that people have always migrated to places that promised better opportunities for survival.  This does not mean stealing your house or your possessions.  Immigrants have classically worked hard to acquire their own possessions.

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12 hours ago, Lexy said:

I kind of feared and expected this. I'm hoping this woman civil servant isn't typical.She is out of line. But I think it requires us to respond emphatically and politely to a person like her that not every American living here voted for Trump. I think many Mexicans realize most expats here loath this president.

Lexy

Lexy, You are wrong. Most expats living here don't loath this president, only the loud ones. There's a lot more deplorables here than you know.

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1 minute ago, geeser said:

Lexy, You are wrong. Most expats living here don't loath this president, only the loud ones. There's a lot more deplorables here than you know.

Not to get into an argument where no one can prove which is right, but this area voted to elect Obama the last two times around.  Somehow, I doubt they switched loyalties this time around.  The "loud mouths" aren't limited to one side or the other.  I was listening to a whole table of them at dinner recently.;)

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The fact that immigrants, worldwide, seem to follow that path is admirable. It is invaders that one must fear, as they tend to burn, pillage and occupy both the lands and posessions, often committing genocide in the process. It is a trait that many of us have inherited from our ancestors, and one which we must resist.  Immigrants, on the other hand, tend to work for what they need, and are particularly proud that they can succeed by doing so. As Geezer has experienced, there can be exceptions to how they may, or may not be welcomed, but it is wise to ignore exceptions and give a wide smile to the majority; expat or national. ¡Somos unos!

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1 minute ago, RVGRINGO said:

The fact that immigrants, worldwide, seem to follow that path is admirable. It is invaders that one must fear, as they tend to burn, pillage and occupy both the lands and posessions, often committing genocide in the process. It is a trait that many of us have inherited from our ancestors, and one which we must resist.  Immigrants, on the other hand, tend to work for what they need, and are particularly proud that they can succeed by doing so. As Geezer has experienced, there can be exceptions to how they may, or may not be welcomed, but it is wise to ignore exceptions and give a wide smile to the majority; expat or national. ¡Somos unos!

It may be that the writing on the Statue of Liberty should be obliterated and replaced with one more in keeping with the times.B)

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Long before Trump even looked like he might win Newt penned an article that explained his appeal. You went on vacation for a couple of weeks last summer. When you got home you realized a bunch of racoons had moved into your basement. You checked out who was best for this kind of job. There was one person everyone said could get the job done. The problem was that this person was a drunk, was on his third wife, cursed terribly and looked like hell.

None of that mattered, you hired him because he was the one who could clean out the racoons.

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