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10 minutes ago, More Liana said:

That photograph was taken at a march in San Jose, California in 2006.  San Jose is nowhere near the border, and 2006 is pretty far from 2017.  Don't believe me?  I looked it up on Google Images, took one second.  Google is your friend.

That sounds correct, but I was referring to the picture showing people lined up on both sides of the fence, not the street march. Meantime, thanks for taking the time to do that search.

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1 hour ago, HookEmHorns said:

Well said, MC. I would have no problem if the US had the same rules that Mexico has as far as a Language requirement and for immigration purposes. Maybe the US is just plain tired of the $60B annual gain that Mexico gets in NAFTA, and all the US dollars earned there that are sent to be spent in Mexico. Bottom line for me: Every country has the right to set their own requirements for Immigration and Language requirements, and it is none of my business if it pleases me or not.

 


US Chamber of Commerce figures ... and Wilson Center research findings say that the USA has between 6 million more jobs  (Wilson Center data) and 14 million more jobs  (US Chamber of Commerce data)   due solely to Mexican trade with the USA.

Another curious reality:
U.S.-Mexico trade is unique in the world, because our "production sharing" program between Mexico and the USA means that ...

"...A full 40 [percent] of the content of U.S. imports from Mexico is actually produced in the United States. ... This means that forty cents of every dollar spent on imports from Mexico comes back to the United States, ..."


"... (This is) a quantity ten times greater that the four cents returning for each dollar paid on Chinese imports. "

More key facts:
The trade imbalance is actually NOT the hyped $80 billion for Mexico.

When we consider that 40% of the $$ content of Mexican exports to the USA ,,, are parts~components ~Made In the USA~ ... then almost every US-sold car that was assembled in Mexico .. contains 40% US content..

Using the realities of REAL trade of goods & services between the USA & Mexico, the OFFICIAL trade figures show:

In 2014, Mexico sold $290 billion of goods & services to the U.S. The US content, 40%, of that $290 Billion was: ~ $116 billion ~ of jobs & benefits & profits for USA-citizens...

When we add this $290 billion of Mexican exports to the USA ... to the other $240 billion in goods and services we (the USA) sold to Mexico:
The Grand Total of goods & services weighs in at $356 billion, ... which is a POSITIVE trade balance of $182 billion of gains for USA.

So... when people make false claims that Mexico is beating the USA in trade by a supposed $80 billion,

... INSTEAD the USA is BEATING MEXICO with ~ $182 Billion of gains ~ every year ... per official US Govt reports
:)

Does it make sense to put 6 million to 14 million US jobs at risk ... to make some political points ?


Because of the 40% US content in Mexican goods, does it make sense to dig in to the USA's best ~ most profitable - trading partner ?

The Chinese & Germans only buy a drop in bucket of US goods, while Mexico & Mexicans have been wonderful consumers of US goods ...
;)

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No, it illustrates my point over and over again: the U.S. is still a country where people can speak their minds. That right is engrained in the now continually-shat-upon Constitution.

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snowy.... I don't believe that one gets more 'points' if they spread their Posts out over 2 feet of Forum space.... and pretty much incoherent. But maybe that's just me.

 

Edit:  looks like snowy has doctored his original Post to make it 'not' 2 feet. Now wants to know what all the fuss was about.

Edit 2: "I guess that means that it's   now   OK   to complain about    and OK to zing    other people's ways of accommodating   with their disabilities..."

Now looks like I'm just picking on a man with disabilities.... disabilities that have never been discussed before. <sigh> indeed!

 

Edited by RickS
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4 minutes ago, RickS said:

snowy.... I don't believe that one gets more 'points' if they spread their Posts out over 2 feet of Forum space.... and pretty much incoherent. But maybe that's just me.

What are you talking about??

I just read my post ... and it looks fine... 

Maybe your computer display had some problem ??
 

Please check my post ... and to see what's happening.
THANKS!

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Well if my display has gone goofy, so must have HookEmHorns and another....

 

BUT, I do apologize for taking this thread 'off course'....

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4 minutes ago, HookEmHorns said:

FYI. His computer display is just fine. That is not the problem.

 

What is the problem?

When you read my post that explains the   real   trade imbalance between Mexico & the USA   is   a  gain~benefit  of   $182 billion ... in the USA's favor...

I don't see anything spread over '2 pages' ...    Please explain what are you talking about ???


Are you just writing personal zingers ... because you don't like the   official US-Mexico  trade   data results  ?
???

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Just now, pappysmarket said:

WTH kind of post is that?


It's a post of the official facts  of   the actual $$ amounts of    goods & services   traded   between the  world's two best trading partners.

No other pair of countries in the world share the 40% content of USA manufactured content that is in the goods that Mexico exports to the USA.  This "Production Sharing"  arrangement is  unique   in the whole world.

What's controversial   about the USA benefiting by the US Chamber of Commerce's reports of   14 million US jobs   due solely to trade with Mexico ??

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33 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

No, it illustrates my point over and over again: the U.S. is still a country where people can speak their minds. That right is engrained in the now continually-shat-upon Constitution.

I don't have any problem with legal immigrants and citizens demonstrating in the U.S.  I do have a problem with people who are there illegally doing so.  BTW, you might want to notice that legal immigrants when polled are against illegal immigration.  I think the explanation is simple--they are on the front lines of economic competition for scarce jobs.

Here's an interesting take on that trade deficit:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/26/the-smart-way-to-think-about-that-trade-deficit-with-mexico/?utm_term=.c73dc87cf664

This supports Snowy's contention that the trade has produced a net benefit to both countries.  It makes sense to me.

I continue to feel that the primary problem here is not trade by itself, it is what is going on at the border for which Mexico refuses to take any responsibility.  The issue has become charged by that situation and politicians are posturing rather than admitting there are issues that need to be dealt with and making deals to do so.  That border has become a major PR liability to Mexico and they can't seem to grasp the significance of that in the overall situation.

I remain convinced that a serious throttling of illegal crossing at that border is good for both countries.  The narcos feed off of that border and that is where they move most of their money and arms across.

If this was just about the trade deficit, the obvious first target is China.  And frankly, both the U.S. and Mexico should focus on that one.  The Chinese are using trade to wage economic war on the west IMO.

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34 minutes ago, RickS said:

snowy.... I don't believe that one gets more 'points' if they spread their Posts out over 2 feet of Forum space.... and pretty much incoherent. But maybe that's just me.



Now I understand.

Just like Rolly Brook   and others     ... I have trouble seeing things. ... So it helps me   if I  spread  them  out.

I guess that means that it's   now   OK   to complain about    and OK to zing    other people's ways of accommodating   with their disabilities...

*sigh*

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Okay, here I sit in Texas.  I hit the grocery store a few times a week.  Most of the fresh produce I buy says it is a product of Mexico.  What if Mexico found a new market for their produce or if prices went up due to an imposed tariff.  While I and others would personally suffer, it is something I applaud El Presidente for hold his ground on.  Mexico is not the smallest kid in the classroom and should not be picked on.  STAND UP AND PROUD!

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3 hours ago, rvanparys said:

Interesting..... One has to jump through hoops to live here legally but it seems ok for others to enter the US illegally...

I didn't have to jump through any hoops to get my Permanente. Just fill out paperwork and pay.

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Another viewpoint. As people are a plague on the earth-there are just a way too many of us and the numbers are growing rapidly. People must move to somewhere where they can have a better life. Us humans have been doing it for thousands of years. Governments try to put up artificial barriers which are doomed to fail in the end. People have  a right to go where there are enough resources to support them. No bureaucrats will be able to stop this process in the end. 

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15 minutes ago, cedros said:

I didn't have to jump through any hoops to get my Permanente. Just fill out paperwork and pay.

Me neither.  Just follow the law, come here legally with the resources to support myself and spouse and it was no problem at all.  

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OK, what do you want broken? :D

1 minute ago, RickS said:

OH, give me a break!

I really think this country has a great approach to immigration.  Good for Mexicans, good for us, fair and friendly.  America could really learn from it.  Maybe one day even if they get control of that border it would be possible to make it easier for Mexicans to visit the U.S.  As it stands now, it is damned hard for a Mexican to get a visa to go touring in the U.S.

I hope Mexico keep it up and it doesn't get caught up in the emotions of the moment.

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I continue to feel that the primary problem here is not trade by itself, it is what is going on at the border for which Mexico refuses to take any responsibility.

So let's say a million Americans wanted to get out of the U.S. this year thanks to the results of the presidential elections... do you think border guards, or any Federal interest, is going to stop them from trying to get into Canada or Mexico, or high-tail it to Australia or somewhere? Not bloody likely, so saying Mexico refuses to take any responsibility for (the imaginary legions of) their people crossing over into the U.S. has no meaning.

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3 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

Spicer just announced that DJT will seek, as part of a larger tax plan, to place a 20% tax on all imports from Mexico to pay for the wall.

Only one of several options as said.

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CG, you are engaging in speculation.  What is going on at the U.S. border is physical reality.  There's nothing imaginary about it.  The crossing rate has gone as high as a 1000 per day or more.  

Here's the data:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016

Of course as a Canadian it is hard for you to relate to this as nothing like it exists on the U.S. and Canadian border.

Canada has something like 200,000 illegal immigrants in total.

It's funny, all those posturing claimants who were going to leave the U.S. over the election are still there.  LOL

 

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11 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

CG, you are engaging in speculation.  What is going on at the U.S. border is physical reality.  There's nothing imaginary about it.  The crossing rate has gone as high as a 1000 per day or more.  

Here's the data:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016

Of course as a Canadian it is hard for you to relate to this as nothing like it exists on the U.S. and Canadian border.

Canada has something like 200,000 illegal immigrants in total.

It's funny, all those posturing claimants who were going to leave the U.S. over the election are still there.  LOL

 

LOL yourself MC and I will stay in my country as long as I wish whether you like it or not.  Feeling pretty special aren't you Helen.

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32 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

CG, you are engaging in speculation.  What is going on at the U.S. border is physical reality.  There's nothing imaginary about it.  The crossing rate has gone as high as a 1000 per day or more.  

Here's the data:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016

Of course as a Canadian it is hard for you to relate to this as nothing like it exists on the U.S. and Canadian border.

Canada has something like 200,000 illegal immigrants in total.

You completely miss the point, and are creating a false equivalency: that is, making a rebuttal to a non-existent argument. You said " it is what is going on at the border for which Mexico refuses to take any responsibility." This suggests that there is something to take responsibility for, when there is not. I back up my statement by asking what would any government do?

Oh, and suggesting that I don't understand or relate because I am a Canadian? Seriously?

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I know and speak with many Mexicans, many of whom have lived and worked in the US, some illegally, some legally. Very few of those who have lived in the US are at all anxious to go back, saying they have a better life in Mexico- their families are here, fruit hangs off the trees for the picking, people are more laid back, etc.

Regardless of the statistics ( which as everyone knows can be arrived at in many ways to prove whatever point one wants to make), I think the average American has a misconception that everyone in the world would jump at the chance to live in the US. Sort of like the misconception that everyone on welfare is a lazy bum who simply doesn't want to work.

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