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I do not want or intend to get a discussion of politics going but simply want to comment on what happened to me and a friend today at a government office in Chapala and to find out if others have experienced anything similar from officials or locals.  The person at the desk filled out the necessary paperwork for my friend but said in Spanish that there would be no English spoken.  My friend does not speak Spanish, so the official told me that when she called back with the needed information that it would not be in English, so I offered my  phone number for her to call, which she wrote down;  then she went into a rant (voice raised, rapid speech, hands gesturing) that Mexicans go to the US and work so hard, and YOUR President doesn't want us (friend had to produce passport, so she knew our nationality), so there would be no English spoken for us.  She emphatically added, "And Pena Nieto will NOT be going to the US to meet with Trump."  S

I tend to be positive thinking, but I feel that this is only the beginning and that backlash against US citizens here could come from officials and locals in subtle and not-so-subtle ways.  I was hoping this would not happen, but after experiencing this today, I'm now having different thoughts.  Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

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I have been asked point blank who I voted for in a couple of small businesses, including La Playa Liquors. I smile and tell the truth.....I didn't vote.

From an economic standpoint it would be a crazy thing to do but we all know many decisions are made with the heart not the head. Stay tuned, stay flexible and let's see how it plays out.

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Have another look at the photos from the Chapala/Ajijic women's march. Watch the Mexican faces - they are smiling, and happy. Knowing that a great many faces, all over the world, were definitely on their side.

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Interesting..... One has to jump through hoops to live here legally but it seems ok for others to enter the US illegally...

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11 minutes ago, rvanparys said:

Interesting..... One has to jump through hoops to live here legally but it seems ok for others to enter the US illegally...

That is a completely innacurate portrayal of the situation. I mean, completely. It's also unwarranted and the very reason politics is not generally allowed on this board.

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I've always felt a fair compromise would be for the U.S. to adopt Mexico's immigration laws.  Mexico looks out for its citizens first and that is one of the things I appreciate about it.  IMHO it is government's duty to put it's own people first and a country's right to determine who is allowed to enter.

We are not entitled to come here uninvited without resources, take jobs from Mexicans or become dependent on the few social services here.  That is how it should be and no one should be surprised if the U.S. with it surplus of labor might decide that enough is enough.  When you get right down to it, there's a backlash going on in a lot of places over uninvited guests these days.

I also appreciate that Mexico has an official language.  Language is an important unifying factor for a culture and a nation.  The lesson of the Tower of Babel seems to have been forgotten NOB.  If they want to insist on that language in official actions, that is their right.

It will be interesting to see what language they want to speak when we show up to pay our taxes and water bills. :)

We need to keep our cool, keep our noses clean, be polite and let this thing work its way out.  Remember this country is taxing imports 16 percent and this board has had many thread about how routine stuff is held up, rejected or stolen at the border.  The media has been full of pictures of people streaming into the U.S. uninvited.  I can't imagine why anyone would be surprised that a backlash hasn't finally shown up there.

And how we vote is our private business.

 

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2 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

That is a completely innacurate portrayal of the situation. I mean, completely. It's also unwarranted and the very reason politics is not generally allowed on this board.

What is inaccurate about it?  I always wonder why someone from Canada a country that controls immigration pretty carefully would think that this situation should be tolerated in the U.S.

Image result for picture of U.S. border invasion

 

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24 minutes ago, rvanparys said:

Interesting..... One has to jump through hoops to live here legally but it seems ok for others to enter the US illegally...

Mainecoons: You do know I was responding to rvanparys, not you?

First, there are no "hoops" to living here legally. There is paperwork, yes, and Mexican bureaucracy, but you just try to get a green card for the U.S., or even reapply for an existing one. Better yet, go on up to Canada as a Mexican and try to get permanent residency there. The system here is so much more forgiving. And don't forget, according to all reports, Chapala/Guad INS is perhaps the worst in all of Mexico.

Second, "it is ok for others to enter the US illegally..."??? Since when?

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Spicer just announced that DJT will seek, as part of a larger tax plan, to place a 20% tax on all imports from Mexico to pay for the wall.

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Come on, surely you haven't missed the sense of entitlement many people here feel about the U.S. border.  Look at the picture again.  What has Mexico done to stop it?  Nothing.

What would happen if we did this in this country?

Image result for Mexicans demonstrating in U.S. pictures

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Are political discussions allowed on this web forum?  Because that is what this has morphed into.  

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15 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Spicer just announced that DJT will seek, as part of a larger tax plan, to place a 20% tax on all imports from Mexico to pay for the wall.

So the American consumer is going to pay for the wall. 

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3 minutes ago, Kiko said:

Are political discussions allowed on this web forum?  Because that is what this has morphed into.  

Reread the OP. Where else did you expect it to go?

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I escorted someone, TODAY, to get a police letter in Chapala. We were greeted warmly by the lady at the desk...she asked, in very good english, how she might help. She then provided the needed paperwork and wished us a good day........I guess some of us are luckier than others.

 

Fred Habacht

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14 minutes ago, HookEmHorns said:

Well said, MC. I would have no problem if the US had the same rules that Mexico has as far as a Language requirement and for immigration purposes. Maybe the US is just plain tired of the $60B annual gain that Mexico gets in NAFTA, and all the US dollars earned there that are sent to be spent in Mexico. Bottom line for me: Every country has the right to set their own requirements for Immigration and Language requirements, and it is none of my business if it pleases me or not.

 

;Exactly my point.  We don't have the right to feel entitled to anything here and vice versa.  At the same time, we make a very substantial financial contribution to this country and any consideration given for that is welcome.

And my other point is that the backlash NOB didn't occur in a vacuum.  This has been coming for a long time and it drove the last election, like it or not.

There's a reason for the backlash there, like it or not.  I can only hope cooler heads will prevail at some point.  It seems to me China, which runs a very big trade surplus with this country and a huge one with the U.S. should be of much greater concern.  

Why is Mexico importing manufactured goods from China that could and should be made here?  The trade deficit of Mexico with China is nearly $50 billion per year.  

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There's also a megatrend here of large parts of the world getting quite fed up with immigration in general.  This is particularly true of Europe, for example.  Mexico has quite a problem on its southern border which it is attempted to address by keeping people out or pushing them back across the border.  This is going to get worse as it becomes more and more difficult to cross the U.S. border illegally.

Like it or not, in the future there will be a lot less receptivity to immigration, particularly economic immigration and people at some point are going to have to figure out how to solve their problems at home rather than move somewhere else.

 

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23 minutes ago, barbara habacht said:

I escorted someone, TODAY, to get a police letter in Chapala. We were greeted warmly by the lady at the desk...she asked, in very good english, how she might help. She then provided the needed paperwork and wished us a good day........I guess some of us are luckier than others.

 

Fred Habacht

Thanks for the positive report Fred.  So now we have one bad and one good report.

 

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52 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Come on, surely you haven't missed the sense of entitlement many people here feel about the U.S. border.  Look at the picture again.  What has Mexico done to stop it?  Nothing.

 

First of all that pic of the wall wasn't there when you originally posted. Second, I don't see what that has to do with anything. It still is not "okay for others to enter the US illegally..." on either side of the fence. The fact that some Mexicans may want to is not an approval. Secondly, I have no idea what that photo represents. Your implication is that it is a typical shot of Mexicans trying to get into the US. My first response is that illegal border crossings for immigration have been recorded for the last several years as almost zero. Second, why are there so many people on both sides of that fence in this photo?

And you ask "what would happen if we did this in this country?" which implies that it is wrong for people to parade... again, what tells me this next photo has anything to do with civil unrest or demands for... what exactly? Or that these people in the photo are what, illegals? It doesn't matter to you that the answer is until recently, the U.S. has always been very, very tolerant of immigrants: it made the country, remember?

You guys are chomping at the wrong bit. Not only that, but completely ignoring the baloney about "hoops" to get into this country.

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25 minutes ago, Xena said:

So the American consumer is going to pay for the wall. 

Yes as most consumers everywhere pay import duties and their governments decide how to spend them. If the exporters are able to convince the consumers to pay that extra 20% then they truly will be paying for it. Common sense tells us that to sell the same volume the exporters will have to reduce their prices by some amount and whatever that amount is, that will be the share Mexico pays.

i would not be surprised if this is just the opening move in a chess game. If it weren't so personal it might be fascinating to watch the moves being made.

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Soon Mainecoons will shut this down but usually after he makes the "last" comment. :-)

On Mexican social networks extensive anti-American sentiment and rising. Today an American friend faced it a bank. I hear it daily in various offices. It will get much worse.

As a Mexican who works with expats daily it is so easy for expats to live here legally and not a lot more effort than it takes for a Mexican to change planes in the US. Not even a background check is done by consulates 99% of the time which is so wrong. Expats get free healthcare, INAPAM; tourists in many places get a driver's license and can buy and register a vehicle. How much easier do you want it? Meanwhile, a significant number earn income illegally with no payment of tax and no INM approval including landlords. I even know of one posting here who has provided mortgages at lakeside and I am willing to bet he never paid tax on the interest received nor had the appropriate visa. I also meet expats who fudged their bank accounts to show income that was not theirs, some here with no legal right to do so. And while everyone thinks all expats contribute greatly to the Mexican economy I ask how is that so when I have met many making less than $1000 per month and a slow as 600?

Now I see a silly comment below that states ... oh well not the same number of expats doing things illegal in Mexico as Mexicans in the US. Some will use anything to justify. 

If the US did not hire Mexicans few would be going there to work to provide for their families back in Mexico. But greed for cheap labor that can be easily taken advantage of prevails. 

And many of the Hispanics in the US are from Central America. Some may want to read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theta-pavis/decades-of-us-interventio_b_5610684.html

Meanwhile, there are many INM staff including from SMA at Mexico's southern border turning back those from Central and South American trying to reach the US.

Overall expats are a benefit but many are not just as many Mexicans are a benefit to the US but not all. 

Americans rejoiced when the Berlin wall come down. Oh how things change. 

Viva Mexico

 

 

 

 

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I have it on good authority that the fence picture is actually showing families on the Mexican side trying to touch the hands of their families on the American side. Nothing at all to do with gratuitous attempts to cross the border that would showcase this sense of "entitlement" that Mexicans supposedly feel.

Sonia, right on.

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" illegal border crossings for immigration have been recorded for the last several years as almost zero "

I could be wrong but I 'think' that the situation is that 'the NET population 'exchange', between illegal border crossings into the US and 'illegals' returning home 'permanently' to Mexico, is zero.... not that there are near-zero illegal crossing these days. 

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14 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

I have it on good authority that the fence picture is actually showing families on the Mexican side trying to touch the hands of their families on the American side. Nothing at all to do with gratuitous attempts to cross the border that would showcase this sense of "entitlement" that Mexicans supposedly feel.

Sonia, right on.

That is also my understand of that picture.....

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19 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

I have it on good authority that the fence picture is actually showing families on the Mexican side trying to touch the hands of their families on the American side. Nothing at all to do with gratuitous attempts to cross the border that would showcase this sense of "entitlement" that Mexicans supposedly feel.

Sonia, right on.

That photograph was taken at a march in San Jose, California in 2006.  San Jose is nowhere near the border, and 2006 is pretty far from 2017.  Don't believe me?  I looked it up on Google Images, took one second.  Google is your friend.

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8 minutes ago, RickS said:

" illegal border crossings for immigration have been recorded for the last several years as almost zero "

I could be wrong but I 'think' that the situation is that 'the NET population 'exchange', between illegal border crossings into the US and 'illegals' returning home 'permanently' to Mexico, is zero.... not that there are near-zero illegal crossing these days. 

That is a much closer description, thank you.

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