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Hospital Jardines Guadalupe

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I recently was taken here after a cardiac emergency. Although the medical care was fine, the checkout process was very stressful especially since I was there as a heart patient. First, although the doctor was ready to discharge me around 10:00am, I was held up until after 4:00pm waiting for insurance clearance that never came. To add to the aggravation, I was billed for an extra day's stay because I was in the room past the discharge time. 
Reading many other comments on Facebook, I see that over billing is a common practice here. Beware!

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It is common to be held in hospital until all financial arrangements are completed. I have had the same experience and was held over a weekend in another hospital, until the insurance office opened on Monday and confirmed that payment would be made. Fortunately, I was able to avoid the extra charges for the weekend by negotiating with hospital management.  No, it was not a pleasant experience.

Many years ago, I also had heart catheterization and stents placed in Jardines de Guadalupe and recall it as a pleasant experience with fine care and pretty good food.

Your experience was not unusual and not really a case of “over billing“, but more a case of poor response by your insurance carrier.  Was it a weekend or holiday?

I hope your recovery is going well.

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Some of you may want to consider Sagrado de Corazon hospital in Guad - it is run by nuns - I have had two surgeries there and the treatment was excellent. One surgery was a six hour ordeal due to unforeseen complications. My care was wonderful - the price of the room was approximately 1200mx per day - the day I was to be released I had to wait a bit longer for my husband and there was no extra charge. The food was really good also. I have been in many of the expensive hospitals and will never use them again. Just a thought for some here. It was very quiet also, unlike some of the others.

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1 hour ago, Bontekoe said:

The solution

Get IMSS!!!

Have you been a patient in an IMSS hospital?  If you have, please share your experience.   If you haven't, posters may tell you the reason that some  people prefer private insurance and private hospitals. 

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

Have you been a patient in an IMSS hospital?  If you have, please share your experience.   If you haven't, posters may tell you the reason that some  people prefer private insurance and private hospitals. 

Since 2011 have been a patient twice (different hospitals) and stayed with a patient once (third hospital) -- all IMSS. Yes, they are "no frills". (What do you expect for the price of an annual premium?)

But doctors and nurses alike were very caring and compassionate. Admittedly, speaking Spanish is a must (I do), and  most of the time things went according to schedule -- but certainly there were some "blips" in the routines. Not enough, tho', for me to say "drop IMSS" and pay private premiums.

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8 hours ago, howardF said:

I recently was taken here after a cardiac emergency. Although the medical care was fine, the checkout process was very stressful especially since I was there as a heart patient. First, although the doctor was ready to discharge me around 10:00am, I was held up until after 4:00pm waiting for insurance clearance that never came. To add to the aggravation, I was billed for an extra day's stay because I was in the room past the discharge time. 
Reading many other comments on Facebook, I see that over billing is a common practice here. Beware!

Were they waiting for your insurance to agree to pay?  Were you able to leave without paying the entire bill out of pocket and then getting reimbursed by your insurance?

I thought Spencer had posted in the past that it is illegal for a hospital to hold you until the bill is paid.

Several years ago when I was a patient at Del Carmen I was not even allowed off the floor to go pay the bill.  Catch-22: I couldn't leave the floor until the bill was paid.  I couldn't leave the floor to go to the cashier to pay the bill.  My friend finally returned from paying the surgeon and took my credit card down to the cashier who then brought the charge receipt ul for me to sign and tell the floor guard to set me free.

I know San Javier will no longer direct bill the Blue Cross/Blue Shield Blue Card Worldwide so the patient has to pay and file for reimbursement with Blue Card.  Does anyone know of any hospital in Guadalajara that still bills the Blue Card directly?

 

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2 hours ago, Natasha said:

Since 2011 have been a patient twice (different hospitals) and stayed with a patient once (third hospital) -- all IMSS. Yes, they are "no frills". (What do you expect for the price of an annual premium?)

But doctors and nurses alike were very caring and compassionate. Admittedly, speaking Spanish is a must (I do), and  most of the time things went according to schedule -- but certainly there were some "blips" in the routines. Not enough, tho', for me to say "drop IMSS" and pay private premiums.

 

2 hours ago, bdlngton said:

Were they waiting for your insurance to agree to pay?  Were you able to leave without paying the entire bill out of pocket and then getting reimbursed by your insurance?

I thought Spencer had posted in the past that it is illegal for a hospital to hold you until the bill is paid.

Several years ago when I was a patient at Del Carmen I was not even allowed off the floor to go pay the bill.  Catch-22: I couldn't leave the floor until the bill was paid.  I couldn't leave the floor to go to the cashier to pay the bill.  My friend finally returned from paying the surgeon and took my credit card down to the cashier who then brought the charge receipt ul for me to sign and tell the floor guard to set me free.

I know San Javier will no longer direct bill the Blue Cross/Blue Shield Blue Card Worldwide so the patient has to pay and file for reimbursement with Blue Card.  Does anyone know of any hospital in Guadalajara that still bills the Blue Card directly?

 

I had few weeks ago a very delicate micro eye surgery, The whole experience has been A1 very caring excellent doctors. IMSS!!

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34 minutes ago, Bontekoe said:

 

I had few weeks ago a very delicate micro eye surgery, The whole experience has been A1 very caring excellent doctors. IMSS!!

Not sure how that answers my question ?.

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6 hours ago, Bontekoe said:

The solution

Get IMSS!!!

IMSS is fine for people who can't afford first class care.. Have spoken to several people who have used IMSS that have told me the care was OK.. just OK  you get what you pay for....They gave IMSS two stars...  Some people prefer a five star place., that's why there is medical insurance...

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It is my understanding that no one other than a officer of the law can detain a person against his/her will. That constitutes an illegal arrest and incarceration. That is an offense in Mexico.

Intercasa has discussed this several times on this forum. Hopefully he will give us his comments.

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3 hours ago, dave0415 said:

It is my understanding that no one other than a officer of the law can detain a person against his/her will. That constitutes an illegal arrest and incarceration. That is an offense in Mexico.

Intercasa has discussed this several times on this forum. Hopefully he will give us his comments.

That was my understanding too.  Of course one has to be pretty forceful (and I don't me necessarily physically) to get up out of the wherlchair and walk out of the hospital, or at least off the floor.  I know that in my situation at Del Carmen the orderly pushing the wheelchair was not going to disobey the floor guard blocking the exit to wheel me out so I would have had to get up and walk out on my own--and hope the guard didn't accost me.  I was not trying to avoid the bill--I was trying to go pay it.  I had spoken with the cashier's office and told them I was on my way down to pay the bill.  They never told me that I couldn't do that eithout having already paid, and they knew I was alone.  Bad system that made me the patient feel like they thought I was trying to skip out without paying.

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Let's get back to Hospital Jardines: It's an awful place to end up in due to the high-handed treatment of the billing office.

No matter what Spencer/Intercasa says is the law: Jardines did keep my husband from leaving the hospital (with an ambulance waiting to take him to a nursing home in Ajijic), because the cash to them for the final payment of his bill was delayed. We were charged with another night plus all the required IVs and medications.

While he was a patient there and I was visiting, the PR person said I was wanted at the billing office. They said I'd have to pay the current part of the bill immediately or they would have my husband, who had just been transferred to a private room, sent back to the intensive care unit (more expensive). I said I'd bring whatever was due the next day but that wouldn't do, and they could not accept my American Express card. They had the PR person drive me to a branch of Actinver where I withdrew the money due. I didn't even know Actinver had a branch in Guadalajara.

Their bills are padded. Dr. Briseno's father, also a cardiologist who attended my husband, shook his head as he looked over the first bill I'd been given and pointed out overcharges that we so much higher than other hospitals in Dr. Briseno's experience. The director of his nursing home had the same reaction.

My husband was taken to Jardines in an emergency by a cardiologist I hardly knew. I got rid of him within days. My husband got good care at Jardines because of Dr. Briseno and the team he put together to care for my husband.

Avoid Hospital Jardines.

Lexy

 

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I want to bump this up. Ending up in a hospital can be a matter of life and death obviously--and if a hospital administrator can override a doctor's orders so that payments of the bill come first there's risk to the welfare of the patient.

OP Howard F. brought up Jardines Hospital de Especialidades and his problem with them. And I added ours. I want to alert and to remind people that a hospital can cause a patient big problems no matter what the law is if they choose to. This is one hospital that chooses to.

Lexy

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19 minutes ago, Lexy said:

I want to bump this up. Ending up in a hospital can be a matter of life and death obviously--and if a hospital administrator can override a doctor's orders so that payments of the bill come first there's risk to the welfare of the patient.

OP Howard F. brought up Jardines Hospital de Especialidades and his problem with them. And I added ours. I want to alert and to remind people that a hospital can cause a patient big problems no matter what the law is if they choose to. This is one hospital that chooses to.

Lexy

You have a good point..

It is easy to spout on here about your rights, about what hospital administrators can do and can't do.. Big difference when your there in person and a very large security guard is blocking your exit...

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So true, TelsZ4. Spencer/Intercasa might want to add on to his citing the law and tell us what to do when you're held hostage at a hospital.

Lexy

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It is a human right and it is a big game of chicken, many things you cant do by yourselves as many see when trying to apply the law.  When held hostage call my office or do it yourself.  I have sprung people but they do not make it easy. 

The hospital the subject of this thread has been the subject of many complaints and seems that people get send there as they may get paid to send people there not due to any special level of service. 

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Spencer, are you saying that the doctor gets a kickback for referring you to a certain hospital? I was under the impression, from previous hospital visits over my 10+ years here, that doctors have admitting privileges at certain hospitals and not at others, as in the U.S. The last time this issue came up for me, the surgeon provided a choice of 3 hospitals and I chose the one I liked, which was the middle option, price-wise.

With previous experience with hospital stays, I now know to keep asking the attending doctor when the patient might be discharged. Weekends are not a great time, but there seems to be a strong tendency to discharge patients on Saturday morning. The last time I went thru this with someone, the surgeon showed up to help us with the discharge! Some doctors are more helpful than others. NOT that this is part of their duties, and God knows we expats can be a PIA, but, to me, part of being a great doctor is CARING about your patients and not just about what a wonderful job you did on the surgery.

And BTW, when you go to the hospital, it you are going to be a bit "out of it" for awhile, consider getting a private duty night nurse, so whoever (spouse, friend, etc.) is taking care of you can go home and feed the dogs and get some sleep overnight. 

This applies to private hospitals. It's my understanding that if you go to an IMSS or Seguro Popular hospital, you need someone to stay with you, and there are NO sleeping accommodations for your helper--they need to bring a sleeping bag.

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Also remember that when someone dies during surgery, and that death was caused by negligence, it is far more likely to be the fault of the anesthesiologist than the surgeon. Choose your surgeon carefully and your anesthesiologist even more carefully.

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I had a case where we pressed and were told in a round about way that ambulance drivers  received benefits for taking people to certain hospitals and this was an event stemming from the Red Cross.  Doctors take patients to where they will be treated best but not necessarily ambulance drivers or people in a clinic who arent doctors nor will be part of any followup procedures. 

There have even been US Consulate warnings about hospitals and their billing practices.  There is a certain way to do things and preserve your rights and those who are scamming will block you at every step.  Some people dont want to pay for an attorney so they pay more in the end.  Alot is knowing what to do at the proper time and not only to know the law but how to force them to obey it.

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Just now, pappysmarket said:

Also remember that when someone dies during surgery, and that death was caused by negligence, it is far more likely to be the fault of the anesthesiologist than the surgeon. Choose your surgeon carefully and your anesthesiologist even more carefully.

I had a person come in to see me who had a medical malpractice case and it has been in the courts 8 years.  I looked up the doctor and parties and they have multiple lawsuits against them.  I pay for a service where I can check names in the civil and criminal courts in Guadalajara and it is amazing how many people have a history but nobody knows or checks.  Not to hijack but pay for a consult with an attorney who can check a name before doing business with anybody you entrust your life to or any large sum of money.  There are many people offering services lakeside who are not licensed to practice, have lawsuits and past criminal complaints but speak some English and wow the locals.

Here is a link to the US Consulate in Los Cabos but shady practices are widespread all over Mexico

https://mx.usembassy.gov/security-message-u-s-citizens-hospitals-los-cabos-area/

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Private hospitals in QRO and SMA will put a large hold on your credit cards including for those who say they have insurance. It can be very difficult for some hospitals to collect on insurance. Or the person may be saying their insurance is in effect when it is not. So, I understand why they want to know if insurance will pay and when.  

Similar to buying a car from a dealer and expecting to take it home without your credit card or check having cleared. 

Sone doctors who work for IMSS also have their own practice and this allows them to get pensions. Every hospital has positives and negatives. IMSS has been great for my parents including two knee replacements, cataract surgery etc. 

FYI third leading cause of death in the US is medical errors. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Intercasa said:

I had a case where we pressed and were told in a round about way that ambulance drivers  received benefits for taking people to certain hospitals and this was an event stemming from the Red Cross.  Doctors take patients to where they will be treated best but not necessarily ambulance drivers or people in a clinic who arent doctors nor will be part of any followup procedures. 

There have even been US Consulate warnings about hospitals and their billing practices.  There is a certain way to do things and preserve your rights and those who are scamming will block you at every step.  Some people dont want to pay for an attorney so they pay more in the end.  Alot is knowing what to do at the proper time and not only to know the law but how to force them to obey it.

I would never live here without a Mexican attorney as Intercasa suggests. I use him whenever possible for even small things to show I am a good client and in return I know he will always take my call. One of the best investments I ever made in Mexico. It's not Intercasa but if I ever needed a new one he is the one I would check out first.

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Hmmm whatever happened to the friendly, kind, happy clappy Mexico we hear about. It is being to sound more like that place NOB where everyone  needs a lawyer when you spill a cup coffee in McDonalds

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2 hours ago, Intercasa said:

It is a human right and it is a big game of chicken, many things you cant do by yourselves as many see when trying to apply the law.  When held hostage call my office or do it yourself.  I have sprung people but they do not make it easy. 

The hospital the subject of this thread has been the subject of many complaints and seems that people get send there as they may get paid to send people there not due to any special level of service. 

I'm not sure what Intercasa means by "It is a human right," and the rest of that sentence.

But, wow. Was there collusion between the doctor who took us to Jardines and the hospital? I wouldn't doubt it. This doctor was a cardiologist from Jocotepec that I met up with when I first took my sick husband to Ajijic Clinic by ambulance.  His subsequent weird  behavior at Jardines caused me to call in Dr. Briseno, a name I only remembered from seeing praise for him on Chapala.com. One year ago. Whew.

Lexy

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