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I don't think becoming a citizen should be based on a "what's in it fo me" philosophy.   I think it's an act of patriotism and dedication to your new country.  I have met many people from across the proverbial pond who boasted with pride when they garnered citizenship in America or Canada yet continued to be proud of their Italian, Irish or whatever heritage.   

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13 hours ago, El Cartero said:

I don't think becoming a citizen should be based on a "what's in it fo me" philosophy.   I think it's an act of patriotism and dedication to your new country.  I have met many people from across the proverbial pond who boasted with pride when they garnered citizenship in America or Canada yet continued to be proud of their Italian, Irish or whatever heritage.   

Since we do not select our parents or the place where our mother happens to reside when we are born, we might question whether any form of patriotism makes sense.  Furthermore, it has served as an excuse for many bloody wars throughout history.  The only things we should logically be proud of are our own accomplishments measured against the gifts we were born with.

One of the reasons I chose to move to Mexico was my admiration for their policy of not sending its military forces to kill other countries' citizens.  I also admire their policy of trying to provide affordable health care for all.

 

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Thank you Gringal, we certainly agree about this business of foreign military misadventurism on the part of you know where.  However, like you I have a big hearing disability and even though I actually can speak quite a lot of Spanish, hearing it is quite another matter and the idea of being tested by someone with less than clear Spanish speaking is pretty discouraging.  Perhaps it is possible to go somewhere else for this?

 

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6 hours ago, gringal said:

 

One of the reasons I chose to move to Mexico was my admiration for their policy of not sending its military forces to kill other countries' citizens. 

 

Mexico is too busy killing it's own citizens and those of countries South, crossing Mexico headed North, to provide support against terrorists worldwide, so some other country picks up the slack left by Mexico.  More have been killed inside Mexico in the last 10 years than any place in the World. THAT is a sad FACT, and it continues to grow daily, just not being reported by the EPN government. Violence is worse in Mexico now than any time under Calderon. Wonder why?

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40 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Thank you Gringal, we certainly agree about this business of foreign military misadventurism on the part of you know where.  However, like you I have a big hearing disability and even though I actually can speak quite a lot of Spanish, hearing it is quite another matter and the idea of being tested by someone with less than clear Spanish speaking is pretty discouraging.  Perhaps it is possible to go somewhere else for this?

 

It was discouraging to the max.  How difficult would it have been to have a written test for people like us?  Many seniors are hearing impaired and it is in the nature of the problem that distinguishing words is more difficult with hearing aids. To have a person with a heavy accent AND a speech impediment administering the test was over the top.   Our faciltator told us that Mexico City waives the conversational Spanish test for seniors, but that's just too much of a daunting project to us to tackle at this point in our lives.

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18 minutes ago, Hud said:

Mexico is too busy killing it's own citizens and those of countries South, crossing Mexico headed North, to provide support against terrorists worldwide, so some other country picks up the slack left by Mexico.  More have been killed inside Mexico in the last 10 years than any place in the World. THAT is a sad FACT, and it continues to grow daily, just not being reported by the EPN government. Violence is worse in Mexico now than any time under Calderon. Wonder why?

The Mexico violence is not perpetrated by the government, but by others.  That is the difference.  The U.S. has killed many civilians in the process of "fighting terrorists". Obviously,  you and I disagree about the value of the U.S. military involvement abroad and whether the lives lost on both sides justify the "war on terror" or will even solve the problem in the long run. I do not wish to argue about this and will return to my cave now, while continuing to approve of the Mexican government's policy of non-support of the U.S. military actions in the Middle East.  I would also like to stick to the subject:  Mexican citizenship.

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There is more than one person in the SRE office in Guadalajara. While waiting I was talking to a young girl about her choice of music. She was listening to 50's and 60's oldies in English on the radio. I guess that was the test for me.

My wife got the young man mentioned several times in this thread. She too had trouble understanding him so just went into a soliloquy answering the question she thought he asked saying why she liked Mexico and the reasons for living here. That may or may not have been the question but the guy accepted the answer. My guess is that the man with the lisp is self-conscious about it and will cut you some slack. Or maybe it was our attorney that used to work in that office and is friends with those people. No way to know.

To a previous post, there is a huge difference between a permanent visa and citizenship. The visa allows you to be here here as an alien resident subject to the whims of the government. Citizens have far more rights and have equal footing with those born in Mexico.

Now the benefits afforded a citizen may not be that important to you. Buying property outright on the beach. A Mexican passport where you can travel to countries with hefty reciprical visa fees for those with a US passport. Argentina and Brazil are two countries that sock it to US residents. Mexicans travel without a fee. 

Voting is a real experience and seems to prove that photo IDs are not restrictive. It's also nice to be able to participate in an election that can affect the quality of life Lakeside and in 2018 being able to vote for a new president.

Those US residents with bank accounts here must supply a SSN so that the banks can report back to the IRS. Not so if you're a Mexican citizen. Information about your assets are shielded when you're a citizen. 

Can't see a downside.

 

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24 minutes ago, gringal said:

The Mexico violence is not perpetrated by the government, but by others.  That is the difference. 

You REALLY believe that? I think the loved ones of the "43" students and many others would disagree 100% with you. Hey, but what do they know that you don't, right? (Maybe this being their Country and seeing and living the fear of police and government all their lives has something to do with it.) Try asking some REAL Mexicans their feelings, if you honestly  want to know the truth.

I would also like to stick to the subject:  Mexican citizenship. But when someone states something that I know not to be true, I owe an attempt to help them learn the truth, no? :D

 

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1 hour ago, Hud said:

You REALLY believe that? I think the loved ones of the "43" students and many others would disagree 100% with you. Hey, but what do they know that you don't, right? (Maybe this being their Country and seeing and living the fear of police and government all their lives has something to do with it.) Try asking some REAL Mexicans their feelings, if you honestly  want to know the truth.

I would also like to stick to the subject:  Mexican citizenship. But when someone states something that I know not to be true, I owe an attempt to help them learn the truth, no? :D

 

I "know" that you are very, very conservative.  That is enough to know, and no, you certainly do not "owe an attempt to teach me" your "truth". I've heard plenty of it in your posts.  Enough.  Now, back to the original topic, all right?B)

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2 hours ago, John Shrall said:

There is more than one person in the SRE office in Guadalajara. While waiting I was talking to a young girl about her choice of music. She was listening to 50's and 60's oldies in English on the radio. I guess that was the test for me.

My wife got the young man mentioned several times in this thread. She too had trouble understanding him so just went into a soliloquy answering the question she thought he asked saying why she liked Mexico and the reasons for living here. That may or may not have been the question but the guy accepted the answer. My guess is that the man with the lisp is self-conscious about it and will cut you some slack. Or maybe it was our attorney that used to work in that office and is friends with those people. No way to know.

To a previous post, there is a huge difference between a permanent visa and citizenship. The visa allows you to be here here as an alien resident subject to the whims of the government. Citizens have far more rights and have equal footing with those born in Mexico.

Now the benefits afforded a citizen may not be that important to you. Buying property outright on the beach. A Mexican passport where you can travel to countries with hefty reciprical visa fees for those with a US passport. Argentina and Brazil are two countries that sock it to US residents. Mexicans travel without a fee. 

Voting is a real experience and seems to prove that photo IDs are not restrictive. It's also nice to be able to participate in an election that can affect the quality of life Lakeside and in 2018 being able to vote for a new president.

Those US residents with bank accounts here must supply a SSN so that the banks can report back to the IRS. Not so if you're a Mexican citizen. Information about your assets are shielded when you're a citizen. 

Can't see a downside.

 

"Now the benefits afforded a citizen may not be that important to you"  Where did you get that idea?  Did you read my other post re why I didn't obtain the citizenship I applied for?

Is your wife seriously hearing impaired?  I am. To repeat myself from a prior post, I was unable to have a choice of bureaucrats to test me and wasn't able to pass the test. Not only could I have passed an written test, but a history test as well, had it been required.   Your comments about the advantages of citizenship were the reason we went through the considerable cost of applying and reaching that final stage, fer hevvin's sakes!.   :rolleyes:

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28 minutes ago, gringal said:

I "know" that you are very, very conservative.  That is enough to know,

You know nothing about me, if you did, you would know my post has nothing to do with politics, but the truth about Mexico. Sad that when some people believe that they are always correct, but can't back it up with facts when challenged, they resort to terms such as "racist", "bigot", "conservative". That is an attitude that creates division among people, and some would even say it creates "hatred".

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1 minute ago, Hud said:

You know nothing about me, if you did, you would know my post has nothing to do with politics, but the truth about Mexico. Sad that when some people believe that they are always correct, but can't back it up with facts when challenged, they resort to terms such as "racist", "bigot", "conservative". That is an attitude that creates division among people, and some would even say it creates "hatred".

All I know about you is what I've read in your posts.  Your political POV shows.  Mine probably does as well.  Nobody is always correct; not you and not me.  We are all biased in some way.  I was not ignoring the problem of violence in Mexico, simply reflecting my view on the official policies of its government as opposed to that of the U.S.  If you think the U.S. should be involved in the Middle East as they are.........you're entitled to your opinion.  We disagree.  Strongly.

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10 minutes ago, gringal said:

If you think the U.S. should be involved in the Middle East as they are.........you're entitled to your opinion.  We disagree.  Strongly.

Actually.my beliefs are none of your business. However, for your personal benefit I will make an exception and tell you that I agree 100% with the newly elected President of the US;  I believe the US needs to take care of the US and let the rest of the World fend for itself. So, looks like we agree on that political point you brought out of nowhere. So, don't judge an apple by how you think it looks, because inside it may be the sweetest you will ever have in your life. :D

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....and this is where I got the notion Hud favors Middle Eastern wars:

" Mexico is too busy killing it's own citizens and those of countries South, crossing Mexico headed North, to provide support against terrorists worldwide, so some other country picks up the slack left by Mexico. 

....BUT it's always possible I misinterpreted his/her point.

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Perhaps Sue, the OP, has enough information now to either pursue citizenship or not. Best of luck on whatever your decision may be. PM me or any of the others that presented useful information should you have further questions.

What the Middle East and terrorists have to do with Mexican citizenship is beyond me.

Maybe it's time to close this topic?

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7 hours ago, John Shrall said:

Perhaps Sue, the OP, has enough information now to either pursue citizenship or not. Best of luck on whatever your decision may be. PM me or any of the others that presented useful information should you have further questions.

What the Middle East and terrorists have to do with Mexican citizenship is beyond me.

Maybe it's time to close this topic?

 

Agree.  Closed.

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