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8 minutes ago, Joyfull said:

This is obviously a very serious subject and especially of interest to those who drive. I emailed our insurance agent Jesús Tejeda whom many of you also have insurance with. I questioned him to make sure we have a fiscal bond on our car. This is his email response..

There is legal defense on both of your auto Insurance that includes bond to secure your release until the investigations is completed. This is what happened in this accident.

The Ministerio Publico was waiting for the official results and no insurance company can issue a bond until the MP have the results.

Obviously when there is an accident and everybody involved has insurance it’s easier for the Lawyer or Adjuster to fix the problem at the accident site instead of Ministerio Publico (“jail”).

 

Who are the "officials" everyone has to wait on??  Is it the MP themselves??  Or is it the insurance companies' lawyer/adjuster??  

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Please everyone, learn from this. Do not stop or try to avoid animals on the highway. A human life is worth so much more.

That is exactly why I never try to avoid animals on the Highway, as I have seen it go bad too many times. So sorry it was you. I feel really bad for those injured.  I assume you are ok, and the dog, t

Wow.You're a real defender of human rights. Anyone can wind up in jail as bmh has demonstrated. this last week the cops did sweeps of neighborhoods in Chapala where many of the nice people who work in

Wonder if it would have been any different regarding jail time if a rich/influential Mexican was caught in a similar accident...

I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I am just curious to know how things work here since it seems the rules sometimes are "guidelines" 

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crazydog I do not know what you mean by" rich Mexican".. but one person involved knew influential people and so did my friend and we still were detained. We received special treatment because of the people who intervened , we did not stay the full 48 hours some of the process was sped up but we still had to go through the procedure. All of this wondering about rich Mexicans is irrelevant as most people here are not rich mexicans and if we get into an accident where someone is injured this is what at best will happen 

Jesus Tejeda is my agent so he knows exactly what went on. We are AXA customer and my husband told me that our lawyer worked very hard  to move things along and so did the other lawyer. I was mad at the lawyer for not keeping me informed but I guess he thought my husband would and since I could not be reach it had to be that way.

The MP had to wait for all the reports from the experts to be turned in. What also took a lot of time was that the blood tests were done in Chapala but the results come out of the foresic office which is in Guadalajara. They first said they would send the results via WHatsapp and then said that the results had to be offical and therefore the police had to send a patrol car to Guadalajara to pick up the papers. My lawyer was supposed to pick up the papers but I guess that did not fly so we were waiting for the police to send a car they did not have or may be the lawyers picked them up , I do not know...After the MP received all the reports and papers they had to make a decision and could not because   no clear responsable party was found so they send all the papers back for further details and investigation. We are supposed to hear today and then ask to go to the MP next week.

In order to get out of a second night in jail the 3 drivers had to sign a paper that said they would pay if they were found responsable.

Nothing goes fast and nothing is simple..and everyone has to be patient.

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I posted what happened to warn people the law was what it is and if you have to go to the MP that is what happen. I will post at a different time what the rules are at the detention unit are because it would have been useful to me to know what to expect once I was in...I could have asked my husband or friend to bring me everything I needed but I did not think  that there would be nothing but a blanket in the cell and that there would be no food offered or shower or pillow or mattress. did not know I was going to be with another person , that there was no flush toilet or sink or anything in that cell.. Not a huge deal if you know about it but when you are a little dazed and come from a different culture it is difficult to know what to expect.

As Jesus said every accident is different and if everyone had  had insurrance  we could have worked it out without going through the MP but it is what happened in this case.

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1 hour ago, Crazydog said:

Wonder if it would have been any different regarding jail time if a rich/influential Mexican was caught in a similar accident...

I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I am just curious to know how things work here since it seems the rules sometimes are "guidelines" 

I think that the rich/influential Mexicans I have met, especially the males, are willing to risk some more chutzpah. For example, and I believe this to be a true story, and a rather famous one in Guadalajara - one of the racers pronged his front end at the track. He found a dead dog on the side of road, placed it in front of his car, and then staged a photo for insurance. Apparently this was a VERY dead dog. Now that is chutzpah! It is also illegal of course, but it is still a good story. Also the rich often have a wad of cash about, which very quickly lubricates roadside settlements, before police or insurance adjusters are called.

Look up "bull bars" for SUV's, that protect the vehicle in an animal encounter, they are everywhere, especially in Australia, for kangaroos.

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My wife and I are new to the Ajijic area but not to Mexico. We have had a car for 7 years and driven to many places in Mexico over the years. However I am a little chagrined to say after reading this thread, have not been too prepared for the outcomes of an accident. That will end now. The OP and others make reference to having a lawyer's contact and Spanish speaking person at the ready. Is there an advocacy service one can retain locally here or for a newbie in the area with somewhat limited local language skills, can you direct us with some suggestions of where to start to build a " driving - just in case package" ?  Many thanks in advance.

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in the 4 yrs i have been on this forum this is probably the most factual, informative post i have seen . no sniping, just good relative questions.

the op has considerablely mas cojones than me and patience. i would be fuming at the whole situation and the ridiculous law. have to live with it.

i have spencers number and jesus tejidas on my cel. thats if i remember to take it with me !!

interesting to note that my mexican partner and daughter didnt know this either !

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There is no point fuming or getting mad , no one was difficult, most people were nice, the laws are obviously poorly written  and that is the way it is. 

This is what you need to be prepared for

filthy toilets no toilet paper or way to wash your hand or yourself although if you insist there is a bathroom in the patio with a shower so if you are really nice they may let you use it..do not know..The bathrooms outside have water heaters but I would not count on warm water and there are no towels or toilet paper.When I ask to use the bathroom outside I was told to use the one inside.

The cell is painted cement and you can ask for blankets. There are 2 bunks one above the other. The upper bunk has no ladder  so you can climb on the edge of one bunk, the window sill and with luck you get to the second floor. Cement is cold and hard to sleep on. No pillow. 

No glass on the window or door only bars and the cops use lots of water to wash their moto and ATV so the place at night is full of mosquitoes

One toilet without much privacy . there is no water so it does not flush and there is no sink or toilet paper

No food is offered at any time. I imagine that if you ask for water the guard will get you some. When you go in your belt and all posessions are taken away and put in a plastic bag with inventory so you have no money. There is a public phone in the patio but I had no card and no money and I do not know if I could have used it. When a friend offered his cell phone the guard said it was not allowed.

Your friends or family can leave food and supplies with the police as long as you do not have metal or knives and I am not sure whatelse.

You can have visitors but for each visit the visitors need to get a 15mn permit at the MP and you need to do that for each visit.

Have your medecine brought in with water if you take medecine.. I do not know about books but that would have been nice since there is nothing to do,

I was in a cell with another woman and we both slept together on the lower bunk to keep warm.She was in for assault but was very nice to me and we share the food and helped each other. 

All people I dealt with from the cops to the MP and guards were nice, I cannot complain about any of them so I was not happy with the filth of the toilet and the physical situation but otherwise I have nothing to complain about .

The best you can do when you find yourself in that situation is to sit back, learn about it  and enjoy the people, fuming and being upset only makes the situation worst, that is the main thing anyone should get out of my experience.

The next episode will be getting the car out...

 

ONE IMPORTANT POINT AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IF I HAD HAD ANY ALCOHOL ; MARIJUANA OR OTHER DRUG I WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GUILTY PARTY.

Marijuana stays in your system a long time be forwarned.

 

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1 hour ago, Manzman said:

Is there an advocacy service one can retain locally here or for a newbie in the area with somewhat limited local language skills, can you direct us with some suggestions of where to start to build a " driving - just in case package" ?  Many thanks in advance.

Yes there is a new (to me) facilitator, who advertises on their brochure to call them, before calling insurance, police and lawyers. Mind you, this is for what they call "fender benders", not sure if there are injuries or death involved. They advertise this as a service on their brochure. We are engaging them on another completely different matter and will provide contacts - if they do what they say, when they say.

Be aware that "staged" accidents and outright car jacking is a big problem all over the world, and especially in Guadalajara, where a lot of illegals deported from the U.S.A. end up, where there only souvenir of life del norte, is a serious meth or heroin habit.

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Phil

they were waiting for the reports from the transitos, reports from witnesses and the most important the results of the toxicology which come from the Forensic office in Guadalajara and have to be picked up in an official manner.. whatever that means but one option is to be picked up by the police which has other priorities  and when I say other priorities I am not being sarcastic the patrol cars are on the move a lot and they have other things to do than going to Guadalajara to pick up some paper.. Again if you live in a country where resources are limited you have to take your turn .

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Yes I can see facilitators going into the game. CALL your insurrance first and if you have legal aid you will have a lawyer, you need someone who can translate for you nothing else  and have someone learn how to get a permit and your friends can bring food or whatever you need, no need to make a huge deal out of that. Your cleaning lady or anyone can do that.

Do not fall victims of all these "facilitators" Get legal aid from your insurrance. The sky is not fallin,g learn Spanish and relax this is an odd case but be aware of the thinking on having ANY alcohol or trace of drugs in the system.

 

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yes ,

first thing after the van rolled or was put on its side and people were trapped many workers from accross the road called..I do not know whom.

Cruz Roja the police the transitos and the fire department arrived because the van was smoking.

The transitos told everyone to call the insurrance and started checking the car papers and insurrance papers

One hour or so later the adjusters from the insurrance arrived they came from Guadaljara. The insurrance asked me if I needed a lawer and I said yes.

The injurred were taken to cruz roja then the police took   the  two remaining drivers , one was injured..to see how badly the people were. The police told the drivers to see if they could agree and ask the injurred to sign off and work it between ourself. The man did not sign and then signed but we were taken to the MP where they wrote our version.

Then we were all taken to a doctor , not sure for what as the doctor refused to sign whatever he was supposed to sign because of the timing..not sure what that was about..something about us not having eaten anything. 

then we were taken to a clinic for a blood test around 2 or 3. The accident happened at 11 am.

then to the police station where we filled out more papers and then we had to leave all of our posessions in a plastic bag,,belt and shoe laces were taken out as well they wanted my glasses and I told them no and they let me have them and then to the cell.

The fire department, the transitos, the police and the experts all had to write their reports and they did speak to witnesses..

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10 hours ago, bmh said:

Then we were all taken to a doctor , not sure for what as the doctor refused to sign whatever he was supposed to sign because of the timing..not sure what that was about..something about us not having eaten anything. 

then we were taken to a clinic for a blood test around 2 or 3. The accident happened at 11 am.

Was blood extracted by needle and, if yes, was their alcohol or an antiseptic wiped on the injection site prior to injection?   Too time compromises validity.  Interesting is do police here need reasonable and probable grounds to insist on the test or did you volunteer when asked?

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yes they extracted blood with a needle and it was done properly with alcohol, . All the tests whatever they were came back negative for me , I was not worried about it but my lawyer was because  when they asked me if I drank , I told them doyou eat tortillas? It is cultural..

I do not drive and drink , I know better and do not do drugs or smoke marijuana so the results were the least of my worries.  The people who ask for the blood tests were the MP, I guess I could have refused but it would have counted against me and screwed up the investigation and that is the last thing I wanted to do,  It was a routine blood test, I do not know what the rules are if they stop you on the road. I did not volunteer the police took us to the clinic and I gave my ok.

Dinero y Amor are ok but Tequila is not  cartero.

 

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Bmh - wasn't even thinking of a DUI more concerned with the application of alcohol at injection point.   I have heard successful legal arguments that the alcohol from the swab can show a level of impairment even if you hadn't a dollop.  I was also curious about the comparison of legal rights.    Thanks for your excellent response.    

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one answer..

The law about being at the disposition of the MP was always there  but as of June 1 this year you cannot post bond until the investigation is over which is between 48h and 72 h

I asked when I could get the car and I was told it would depend on the judgement.

I was told that as of yesterday a conclusion had been reached by "Guadalajara" but we do not know what it is . My lawyer will call me on Tuesday to let me know of the decision and also of my next appointment with the MP which should be Thursday or Friday.

So I guess if you find yourself in a similar situation , this is what you can expect.

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i am sure there is a limit of alcohol permissible. maybe equivalent of a couple of small beers.

anyway the whole thing is bad. in a country where many dont have insurance, take a driving exam, have cars/bikes with no lights, brake lights,annual inspection of all vehicles,  deliberately ignore any road laws, etc etc.

to get caught up in this situation is crazy,particularly when you werent at fault.

appreciate all the information.hope it all works out for you ok and quickly !

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I would not be so sure about the alcohol limit. Alcohol is a red flag  here..and they seem to have a zero tolerance for it at the MP..No matter what the limit is it is a black mark if you had anything to drink and since alcohol is an easy scapegoat I would not dtink and drive. Marijuana can stay up to 30h in the system so be careful about that one too.

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3 hours ago, barcelonaman said:

i am sure there is a limit of alcohol permissible. maybe equivalent of a couple of small beers.

anyway the whole thing is bad. in a country where many dont have insurance, take a driving exam, have cars/bikes with no lights, brake lights,annual inspection of all vehicles,  deliberately ignore any road laws, etc etc.

to get caught up in this situation is crazy,particularly when you werent at fault.

appreciate all the information.hope it all works out for you ok and quickly !

Yup this! I also have a feeling not many Mexicans know about this law violating basic human rights so there's not much hope anyone would petition it. 

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BMH--Thank you for your very thorough, unbiased report on this situation.  I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope the decision about who was at fault is made soon.  As I've thought about this over the last several days I've wondered if the basic rule of following too close and not being able to stop to avoid an accident implies culpability here as it generally does in the U.S.  From what I understand from your description the vehicle behind you was following too close to brake safely when you braked for the dog so he swerved into the left lane instead even though that lane was occupied, thus causing the accident.   If he had been leaving adequate space between his vehicle and yours and paying attention to the traffuc, he should have been able to stop when you braked and there would have been no accident.  I will be very interested to hear where blame is placed by the authorities when it is all reviewed and considered.  

I, for one, am glad you did not have to hit and injure or even kill the dog.  He is an innocent in all of this, of course.  If he has owners, shame on them for letting him run loose to endanger both you and him, but perhaps he got loose and the owners are not to blame.  While many people complain on this webboard about people not following leash laws, there seem to be just as many who scold those who post they have found a dog because many Mexicans tend to let their dogs run loose and accuse the poster of "stealing" the dog and to let it run loose again. It is my opinion that people who intentionally let their dogs run loose do not deserve to have a dog.  A dog that got loose by accident is a different case.   In your case the dog has no fault whatever the reason he was on the highway.  If you were able to find his owners, I'm wondering if you would have any legal recourse against them.

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