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A doberman was on the chapala guadalajara highway on Monday at 11am between the two entrances of Chapala Hacienda.. caused me to put on the breaks, the van behind me with 2 adults and 2 children swirved not to hit me and was hit by a car passing it. There were injuries and this caused the 3 drivers to go to jail for 2 days and one night.

Does nyone know the name  of the owners or their address? I have insurrance and so did the other driver but the driver of the van does not. He is a poor mecanico from el Chante and has now lost his car, has a fracture in the back, he is in bad health in general and I do not want to have those dogs playing on the highway cause another accident . There was a grey dog playing with the doberman a few hours later..

Thank you for any information.

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Please everyone, learn from this. Do not stop or try to avoid animals on the highway. A human life is worth so much more.

That is exactly why I never try to avoid animals on the Highway, as I have seen it go bad too many times. So sorry it was you. I feel really bad for those injured.  I assume you are ok, and the dog, t

Wow.You're a real defender of human rights. Anyone can wind up in jail as bmh has demonstrated. this last week the cops did sweeps of neighborhoods in Chapala where many of the nice people who work in

That is exactly why I never try to avoid animals on the Highway, as I have seen it go bad too many times. So sorry it was you. I feel really bad for those injured.  I assume you are ok, and the dog, too. :(

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Thank you, the dog was ok as they took us to jail...I slowed down the man behind me was too close..and it was a set of bad luck.. The people in the van will be ok. The grand father has a fractured back and he is not in good health so  that was bad. The grand mother was bruised but ok. The little boy has a very bruised and has a sprain. The little girl was bruised but will be ok. The man in the car  is bruised but ok. I am sore but ok..

The worst part is that the grand father with the fracture back went to jail and I can say it was very uncomfortable sleeping on a slab of cement. I heard the man cry out in pain several times that night.. It had to be extremely uncomfortable. Jail is an ugly place to be and really awful is you are not well and this man was in poor health.

 

By the way having legal aid in your policy does not save you from jail if they are injured people for a minimum of 48 hours unless the case can be handled in less time...

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37 minutes ago, bmh said:

Thank you, the dog was ok as they took us to jail...I slowed down the man behind me was too close..and it was a set of bad luck.. The people in the van will be ok. The grand father has a fractured back and he is not in good health so  that was bad. The grand mother was bruised but ok. The little boy has a very bruised and has a sprain. The little girl was bruised but will be ok. The man in the car  is bruised but ok. I am sore but ok..

The worst part is that the grand father with the fracture back went to jail and I can say it was very uncomfortable sleeping on a slab of cement. I heard the man cry out in pain several times that night.. It had to be extremely uncomfortable. Jail is an ugly place to be and really awful is you are not well and this man was in poor health.

 

By the way having legal aid in your policy does not save you from jail if they are injured people for a minimum of 48 hours unless the case can be handled in less time...

Why did the grandfather go to jail?  Was he driving?

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There were 3 cars involved and the 3 drivers went to jail. The law has changed about bail and if there are injured people you will go to jail no matter if you have legal aid for 48 hours or less if the MP  gets to your case before the 48h.. I heard they have 72 hours to get to up and 48h was the minimum ...

We fell sorry for the grand father without the insurrance. He has no money and has diabetes, problems with his lungs and  heart and now back. He is a poor man not a bad man, The 3 of us agreed not to make any claim and work it out so there are no charges and we still ended up in jail the 2 drivers with drunks and who knows what else and I with some one chage with assault..and we shared the cement slab as I could not get to the top level. It was cold, lots of mosquitoes, no toilet paper and no water or flushing toilet and no privacy..

Families sent food and whatever was needed through the guards and had to get a permit every time they wanted to visit..

adjusters were there along with a lawyer and a public defender and the transitos , the municipal police, the bomberos and the cruz roja and lots of witnesses who are the ones who started helping the people in the van to get out.

 

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Please everyone, learn from this. Do not stop or try to avoid animals on the highway. A human life is worth so much more.

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This is such a shit law! This makes me scared to drive here because even if it may not be your fault you still get treated like a criminal. I wonder if there are any possible ways to avoid going to jail in these situations? 

Note: you would think with laws like that, Mexicans would be the most careful drivers in the world, but my experience with the local drivers shows quite the opposite. 

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6 hours ago, Jim Bowie said:

That is exactly why I never try to avoid animals on the Highway, as I have seen it go bad too many times. So sorry it was you. I feel really bad for those injured.  I assume you are ok, and the dog, too. :(

 

4 hours ago, Hud said:

Please everyone, learn from this. Do not stop or try to avoid animals on the highway. A human life is worth so much more.

I've had friends killed trying to avoid deer here in Western Washington.  My policy as well though the car gets pretty smashed up after a deer.  They can even come through the windshield so dangerous either way.

So glad you are OK bmh!

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Yes the law and the process sucks but that is the way it is. I am a Mexican citizen so could not claim help from the consulate , no that they would have helped anyways.

Sleeping on a slab of cement  in a cell with no privacy is not my idea of fun but it is not the end of the world. Everyone was nice to me,,they had to follow their silly rules but everyone was helpful from the police to the MP  so I cannot complain about anyone but the system and it is the system. Some of the inmates were on the scary side but yu do bond with people who are in the same jam.it is extremely helpful to speak Spanish in this situation.

.By the way I signed a paper giving me my rights that told me that I was innocent until proven guilty..I hate to see what the place for the guilty is like,

In this incident no one was driving in a crazy way no one was intoxicated ..the only  person I blame is the dog owner and I would like to find who the owner of that doberman going free in Chapala Hacienda is.  

IF ANYONE HAS INFORMATION OF THE DOBERMAN PLEASE PM

IF the dog had been killed and had caused the accident then we could go after the owners but I want to explore that situation with my lawyer.

Learn from my experience and be ready if you are in such accident. You need for someone to bring you toilet paper, the wet towels to clean your hands, mosquitoe repellent and food and water as they are not provided and a warm blanket and comfortable clothes..the rest is a question of time ...

Have  a contact who speak Spanish and will get a permit every day to come and see you and bring you supplies. You are not allowed to have a phone and you are told you can make phone calls but it is not that simple once behind the bars. The visiting permit is a 15minutes permit.

 

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10 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

Let's hear more about this. Having insurance does not protect you from jail? No sympathy for the guy with no insurance but the OP got the shaft. Did your adjuster show up?


Most Mexican auto insurance policies do not automatically cover the special fiscal $$ bonds required by police to keep us out of jail.  
We've had 2 gringo friends and one Mexicana friend put in jail for nights, for just being non-guilty parties that were peripheral parts of car accidents.

The last 2 insurance companies we had,  required that we ask the insurance agents (salespeople who often do not know Mexican law) to add a special rider to the policies to cover up to an additional $5 million pesos worth of fiscal bond protection, to keep us from sitting in Mexican jail for days, without food & water.**|

Our current insurance company's auto policy  includes sufficient fiscal bond protection.

Across Mexico, the amount of fiscal bond coverage necessary (to stay out of jail) varies from state to state.  Each Mexican state has different $peso$ amounts that must be paid in CASH for every accidental deaths.   The $peso$ cash amounts range from about $1.5 million pesos, up to $5 million pesos owed for each accidental death.

If we cannot prove, at the accident site, that  we have cash assets to cover all anticipated liabilities for medical treatments, deaths,  repairing vehicles, replacing vehicles, & repairing any collateral damage to property (like some roadside fruit stand),  then we can go to jail, indefinitely, without food or water,  until the police decide how much $$ are owed,  or until our insurance company steps up.

Having a good reliable broad high $peso$ fiscal bond coverage from a good reliable insurance company ... keeps us out of jail.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
**No food & water while in Mexican 'detention':   This is why it's important to have a working cell phone with us when driving in the car.  It's important & necessary to call our insurance company to send out an adjustor, to hopefully resolve all problems on-site.   and   If we are sent to jail,  you can call friends or family to bring you food & water for the overnight 'stays' in jail.

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10 hours ago, Crazydog said:

This is such a shit law! This makes me scared to drive here because even if it may not be your fault you still get treated like a criminal. I wonder if there are any possible ways to avoid going to jail in these situations? 

Note: you would think with laws like that, Mexicans would be the most careful drivers in the world, but my experience with the local drivers shows quite the opposite. 


See the detailed post (above) on cheap$ and practical precautions we can take to stay out of jail:   Fiscal bond insurance protection.

Cheap AND easy.
;)
.
.
A little knowledge ... goes a long way.
 

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10 hours ago, bmh said:

There were 3 cars involved and the 3 drivers went to jail. The law has changed about bail and if there are injured people you will go to jail no matter if you have legal aid for 48 hours or less if the MP  gets to your case before the 48h.. I heard they have 72 hours to get to up and 48h was the minimum .

 

11 minutes ago, snowyco said:


Most Mexican auto insurance policies do not automatically cover the special fiscal $$ bonds required by police to keep us out of jail.  

Having a good reliable broad high $peso$ fiscal bond coverage from a good reliable insurance company ... keeps us out of jail.
 

I consider both of these posters to be reliable sources.  Can bmh confirm she did not have this special fiscal bond coverage, and that is why she spent a few days in jail?

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Snowyco READ MY POST THE LAW HAS CHANGED and if there are injured people you cannot post bond , you have to be at the disposition of the MP for 48 hours and they can have you stay up to 72 hours. Just went through that yesterday so I have the fresh scoop on that one.

The MP and investigators could not determined who was responsable so they asked us all to agree that if found responsible we had to cover the damages. We had a public defender involved and 2 lawyers and influential people pushing the MP and police. We were released after 8pm and escaped a second night in jail because of the lawyers and other people who stayed with us. We had a municiapl regidor at the MP to make sure we would be out that night..not many people have that luxury and we still ended up in jail from 2p, on Monday till 8pm on Tuesday night. We had insurrance with legal hep.. The 3 cars are inpounded and who knows when we can get them out since the MP still does not have a decision from the experts on ho was at fault.

 

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BISBEE  2 drivers out of 3 had the special insurrance, I did have mine.  SNOWCO doe not know the latest.law obviously,

SNOWCO post is hearsay he did not go through it. I speak Spanish, have connections, had insurrance and lawyers, was with a Mexcican citizen who had the same and we almost spent 2 nights there, we got out at the lat minute as a municipal official was there watching out for us to make sure we would get out. The other driver told me the MP told him we were lucky to get out without spending 2 nights there as the new law requires that we remain at the disposition of the MP for 48 hours and they want you right there not in your house. As it is we all have to go back to the MP because there was not decision made as to the responsable party.

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Yes I would have been better off. I believe I was hit not by the van but by the car that was passing the van but it was very light and I could have gotten away with leaving the area. There were lots of witnesses but too far to see my plates. I could have claimed I was not involved and the MP told me the transito should have let me go but it did not go that way.

What I need to find out is do I have the right bot to make a statement to the transito about what happened..They take you out as you are still inshock and make you write a statement. The other man got confused about his right and his left, it was an obvious error which they allowed to be corrected but the investigators still went by the first report. The rules are very stilted so nothing is simple and logic does not prevail.

I do not know what happen if you are in accident where there are hurt people and you run away.. I could not live with myself running away from a van on its side with 4 people in it so the question to me is irrelevant.  I leave it to a lawyer to answer that one.

The not driving far is a silly idea. I just got back last week from driving the 1400 km from Chiapas fto Jalisco and I got into this mess in front of Chapala Haciandas a few km from my home.

 

This going to jail only applies if people are hurt.

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Another thing that did not help is that the car I was driving is a beaten up car fill of marks and scrapes and they found a blue mark they believed to be the mark of the van.. I am sure that mark was made by my husband a year ago but what I said was irrelevant as the mark was there ...

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1 hour ago, bmh said:

BISBEE  2 drivers out of 3 had the special insurrance, I did have mine.  SNOWCO doe not know the latest.law obviously,

SNOWCO post is hearsay he did not go through it. I speak Spanish, have connections, had insurrance and lawyers, was with a Mexcican citizen who had the same and we almost spent 2 nights there, we got out at the lat minute as a municipal official was there watching out for us to make sure we would get out. The other driver told me the MP told him we were lucky to get out without spending 2 nights there as the new law requires that we remain at the disposition of the MP for 48 hours and they want you right there not in your house. As it is we all have to go back to the MP because there was not decision made as to the responsable party.


Good points, as long as it was not just a local effect.

Does anyone reading this have a reference or citation to Jalisco law or national law they can post,  to confirm these new claims by local police?

New policies started by only local police departments in Mexico are often not based in law, and get overturned when higher authorities review complaints agains the local cops.

The current Mexican laws require that authorities must generally file formal charges within 72 hours of the offense, except in special cases.

Elba Ester Gordillo is just one notable  example of a case where the investigation+formal charges were not required within 72 hours.

Spencer ?

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You break as a reaction not after logically thinking about the animal or not..Things happen very quickly. In theory you guys are right and go for the animal but it is not always what happens.

This is a Chapala forum and this happened in Chapala. If you want to post about Yucatan go to the Mexico section..I am not going to spend anytime checking the laws, there are lawyers for that and if someone wants to spend time or money checking the laws in Jalisco be my guest.

I have zero interest in researching the law..There were 3 lawyers involved and the Ministerio Publico, the fire department, the transitos, the municipal police and Cruz Rojas plus a doctor , forensics and a clinic..if they tell me that it is the way it is be it , ..it is ok with me and go on to the next thing. 

 

 

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Snowyco listen to what I say this is a new law coming from the Judicial reform so check what the reforma is all about. The police was bitching about it saying that it was easier for the criminals to go but I did not get into it because life is just too short to read law reforms and books at this time in my life.

Mwanwhile I woiuld like information on the owners of these dogs who are left running the highway as someone else could have the same reation as I had.

As we all said pinche perro...

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