Noise ordinance?

[Charli2011]

I once heard that we have a noise ordinance at Lakeside.

What is the limit?

Who do we contact if a restaurant or party seems to have exceeded the limit?

[RVGRINGO]

Mexico is noisy. You must be new to the area.

[HarryB]

Mexico does have laws and this is one of them - the reguladores enforce them. Department head is Hugo Herrera (3310433772, but, he doesn't speak english. Inspectors under him do speak english.

This is a federal law and since there is no state or municipal law that is the one they must enforce.

 

[Cincy]

I lived out in the corn fields of Ohio for almost 30 years with nothing but crickets and coyotes to listen to.  I now enjoy listening to Mexican life in the village; cohetes, bandas, parties, etc.  This is what I came to Mexico for...!!!

[HarryB]

However, when it comes to the point you can't stand it, you'll be grateful that a law exists.

 

Search the archives for many related posts.

[TelsZ4]

Does anyone have any info on when and where these so called noise laws were enforced...?

[el bartman]

I'm with Cincy - if I didn't mind the noise I wouldn't have moved to the town center.

[Cincy]

I've talk to the local Mexicans about the noise and a typical response might be, "What noise?".  I think they are far too polite to say, "If you don't like the noise, go home Gringo!".  As for laws, I've learned that Mexican Laws are just a set guidelines or suggestions. Example: Look at the driving habits around here... 

[TelsZ4]

Maybe two or three years ago certain gringos around here formed the noise police, 

They downloaded noise apps to their iPhones and would seek out people enjoying themselves and monitor the noise level, if according to their iPhones the db level exceeded federal guidelines they had a number to call in The Chapala administration who would then send in the police to breakup the fun...

[ned small]

1 hour ago, TelsZ4 said:

Maybe two or three years ago certain gringos around here formed the noise police, 

They downloaded noise apps to their iPhones and would seek out people enjoying themselves and monitor the noise level, if according to their iPhones the db level exceeded federal guidelines they had a number to call in The Chapala administration who would then send in the police to breakup the fun...

They obviously never paid attention to the long departed Ann Landers who used to write "MYOB" for such busybody endeavours.

[virgogirl]

Look, I LOVE, MEXICO. Lived in noisy GDL, intense traffic, you name it. Here, I don't mind fireworks, people enjoying their music, having a party or whatever. But when it shakes your walls and vibrates your windows, it is just plain rude.It goes beyhond "the culture" or whatever explanation you want to put on it. It seems like if people express that on this board, they're up for some abuse. There is a reasonable level for everything... even here in Mexico.  Some home owners just can't decide to up and move. As for me, that is what I have decided to do. 

[Sonia]

http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle_popup.php?codigo=5324105

This is the Federal Law applicable to all of Mexico. In September when my husband presented this law to the San Miguel mayor's assistant there was an immediate result with the fair's sound system lowered for the remaining 3 weeks. The city is now re-writing all their noise laws to comply. 

[virgogirl]

Sounds reasonable to me. In any country.

[ezpz]

After dealing with noise issues continuously for around 5 solid years, I can tell you that my Mexican neighbors feel exactly as I do regarding the commercial NOISE generated by bar bands, now gym classes blasting from Plaza B,  and eventos which play every horrible style of American music you can imagine extremely LOUD.  It IS our business when the noise is so loud continuously that you have to scream into the phone when you call the police.  That does get their attention.  However, they do not come out and "break up the fun" I have never heard of that actually happening.  But the noise can make it impossible for you to live your own life inside your own home.  I do NOT give them permission to break in and enter and steal my/our peace.

For best results, talk to your Mexican neighbors and get a consensus on the problem.  Chapala will not respond to isolate calls, only when a lot of people call or visit their office.  They want to see group complaints or petitions before they take action.

With bars and eventos, the noise problem is a licensing issue which is why Harry posted the # of Hugo Herrera.  Major hint:  call him WHEN the noise is happening so he can hear it through your phone. You need to speak Spanish when calling.  My Mexican neighbors and I have united against the scourge of all this horrible, intrusive, invasive noise generated around here.  We live between 2 bars and 2 evento places.  We also get it from a now very busy carpenter who sometimes works up to 12 hours a day with very loud radio as well.  The neighbors have dealt directly with him; I have not had to get involved personally although it affects me greatly.  Overall, the situation has improved due to complaints, but you can never depend on a quiet time.  You just give thanks when it happens.  And I'm glad the weather is cooling down so we can shut some of our windows.  During the hot months, it is hell when you can't close your windows to the noise.

The gringos here need to learn to distinguish between the traditional culture of the village and all the ugly commercial noise (mostly generated by monied outsiders) that has infected especially Ajijic in recent years.  The noise problem gets worse every year.  No one knows anything about sound waves or sound equipment here.  They rent or buy way oversized sound systems and then play with them like they are a toy.  I have found that it is actually a very few people who create a lot of noise, bothering everyone around except a few young people at the event/bar.

Fiestas and cohetes are part of the culture here which I enjoy a lot myself.  If that was all the noise we had here, it wouldn't be a problem.  The whole point of the traditional fiestas is to have this ritual time and place where everyone could celebrate, give thanks, stay up late dancing, etc. and make noise, and it only happens infrequently.  Other than the fiestas, these small towns used to be quiet.  But now, the commercial music/noise goes on all year around, sometimes daily.  The commercial noise has already overtaken the fiestas in total noise/hours.  I know because I can hear it all from my house.

[HarryB]

well said!

 

[virgogirl]

I agree with ezpz. The people across the street started in this morning at 7:30 am with window rattling levels of music. Now they must have gone to work Quiet.. But at any time of day or night, you get this rude invasion. I'm out of here in a few days. But that doesn't solve the problem for others. Renters can move. Owners, not so simple to up and relocate.

I'd rather do that than be the sole gringa in a neighborhood who voices a direct complaint. That's gonna go over like a lead balloon. And get me messed with.

Moving on to quieter barrio is my cure. Mexico may be slow in developing some restrictions for noisy, abused or neglected animals, and noise that is utterly abusive to the general public, but I think over time this will get stronger. because reasonable mexicans will make it known that is what THEY want.

[Mainecoons]

What went on here during the entire month of October, setting off obviously very large fireworks beginning at 5 AM was over the top IMO.  I have to wonder how these traditions were observed prior to the availability of small sticks of dynamite set off at really unreasonably early hours.

Remember, it wasn't the gringos who developed the new noise laws which, like most everything else in the Chapala municipio are ignored.  It was the Mexicans.  I think their "love" of loud noises during sleeping hours is more a fiction than a reality.

[ComputerGuy]

Each time I go the Bugambilias Plaza, I am reminded that no matter what we say, we must learn to live with it. That whole mall and surrounding area has been shattered for months by the incredible amount of noise that comes from the gym and the kids' play area. Not only do the businesses in the building suffer, so do the businesses along the street outside, and the houses in the immediate vicinity. This gym is a true indicator that Mexico likes it this way; otherwise, things would change.

"Learning to live with it" is not a facile answer, but can be impossible to many, I understand.

[Cincy]

Although I live on the north side of the carretera, where the noise does carry upward from the village centro, I must admit there are no bars or eventos  near.  So, I can understand ezpz's point of view about over-the-top noise when it's next door.  I have been awake here until 3:00am some mornings listening to what I thought was "loud" music but I know there's another level (or two) above this.

I'm reminded of an incident a few years ago, having to spent an unplanned night in the Caribbean in a very seedy hotel, where a group of local people stacked as many huge speakers as seen at a Black Sabbath concert.  When the music started I could feel the sub-woofers shaking the bed in which I was trying to sleep.  The windows and items in the room were shaking and moving around.  Strangely, I fell asleep (exhaustion!) at the height of the cacophony and awoke in the next morning thinking I'd had a nightmare!  It was certainly an experience but once in this lifetime was enough...

 

[virgogirl]

Last night in the 'hood. They're shakin' the windows and rattling the walls. So glad I am moving to a reasonable place.

[bdmowers]

Live acoustic music, cohetes (but not the current much louder ones), and partying are part of the traditional Mexican culture.  Music played through speakers (of any kind) is NOT traditional. This is quite recent, I believe starting 10-15 years ago (longer term residents can confirm the timeframe). Many expats AND Mexicans abhor loud amplified music.  Some expats tend to speak up about what offends them, most Mexicans do not (because it is not polite and they practice the "live and let live" way of being). 

Not everything one experiences here is "traditional".  Cel phones? Plastic water toys? Plastic soda and water bottles? Automobiles and motorcycles? Even the buildings are not truly traditional (cement and brick construction is, what, 50 years old, superceding adobe)? Plastic fishing nets? Electricity? Polyester clothes and shoes?  Machine-made clothes of any kind? Äcrylic paint? I would contend that perhaps most things in current everyday Mexican life are not "traditional".  So, perhaps the habit some have of complaining that expats are destroying "traditional" Mexican culture might finally end. We`re all here together trying to create the best life we can. That`s about it as I see it.

[ComputerGuy]

I keep hearing this. But loudspeakers have been around for a lot longer than 15 years. Perhaps more access to money around here has increased the availability. If they practice "live and let live" then I suggest, short of having access to "a history of noise in Mexico", it is just now easier to make it louder, because ain't no one local complaining.

[HarryB]

" So, perhaps the habit some have of complaining that expats are destroying "traditional" Mexican culture might finally end. "

 

I find it interesting that it is expats who do this complaining not Mexicans. BDmowers made an astute observation. I have been working on the noise level in Ajijic for quite a while. With Chuni's (Delegado) help we were able to limit the October cohetes and they were minimal except for the last day of the month. Yet, even that was better than the anguish of the last two years. When I say we I am talking about the Mexican community!

The San Andres festival (Nov 20 - 30)  committee again with Chuni's help has agreed to what they consider minimal cohetes (Remember each bario manages a day of the festival, so hopefully the barios go along with the committee).

 

The Mexican community recognizes the noise damage to their children and elders, fauna and historic buildings and many want inprovement, not elimination , but, improvement. Music is much louder than traditionally because of the abuse of gigantic speakers which are new to the environment. Cohetes are more numerous and more powerful than traditional because of availability and economic prosperity. believe me the mexicans are concerned!

[Mainecoons]

Harry as usual thanks for all your efforts.  Regarding the October cojetes, the problem was they started setting them off at 5AM  I suspect most people are still sleeping soundly at that hour.  Perhaps you can work with Chuni to see that this doesn't start before at least 6AM?

These things are definitely getting louder.  It only takes one or two of these big ones to wake everyone up.

Thanks.

[ezpz]

Funny, but the cohetes have never bothered me and I've lived in the village for almost 10 years.  When I first heard them I thought it was fabulous fun that people were celebrating so early in the morning when I could happily stay in bed.  What a way to start the day!  Of course you wouldn't want that every day, but you don't have it every day, either.  The Mexicans themselves can deal with this.  In my experience, the people of the village enjoy the cohetes, but there are Mexicans here from other areas like big cities where they are not used to it so don't like it.

Before the Spanish brought gunpowder (and guns) to the "new" world, there used to be ritual drumming in the middle of the night to ward off evil spirits or whatever, but it goes way back.  Plus we have the ritual summertime thunderstorms which boom quite a bit in the middle of the night.  But, who you gonna complain to?  God(dess)?

The noise at Plaza B with the new gym is a great problem for those that work or own shops in there.  They are tearing their hair out over this.  I asked a few why they don't move but they say the rent is low.  I also spoke with the owner way back when they got started with the loud rock groups and horrible extremely loud karaoke out on their upstairs terrace. As is typical he knows nothing about sound or sound equipment.  He staunchly believes that loud noise attracts business like free advertising, but he doesn't see the flip side of that coin.  It also repels a lot of business and it is hurting the current shop owners as well as the neighbors. 

One tenant there told me how Mexican schools don't teach anything about sound waves, how they travel, etc. - the basis for the sound issue ignorance here, sorry to say.  And the equipment is now easily available to the public since the digital music age.  Sound systems used to only be available in professional music stores where only experienced musicians bought them.  Untrained people have no idea what all those dials and fader switches even do, let alone how to use them.  It's sort of like kids driving on a freeway in a city bus.  So no surprise there are constant problems.

 (I noticed that the new Happy Chicken (Pollo Feliz) place has replaced their large sidewalk sound system with a much smaller one.  And they usually play cool salsa music, which we do not hear enough of here in MX, oddly enough.)

It is a total myth that Mexicans "like" all this loud noise.  They just don't have faith in the process of complaining, knowing full well that some businesses will simply pay off the inspectors to "extend" their hours, etc.  There must be some music equipment rental business that is making a killing with these way oversized sound systems everyone uses here.  The business math just doesn't compute.  By the time you pay the equipment rental and the musicians earn very little and then the bar pays off someone to go late, how does anyone make any money when there are only a handful of customers???

All the local musicians I've talked to complain they don't get paid enough.  Well, if they had the professionalism to practice and rehearse real actual hit songs and put on a dynamite show with a dynamic front singer to engage the audience, they would attract more customers and would have leverage to ask for more money.  But even the musicians here don't know that.  They often just do sloppy "jamming"  which is musician's code for "no one knows what they are doing but we'll just wing it because everyone is drunk anyway and won't care."  Well, except the neighbors...