FritzLeona Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Lulugirl said: Newcomers moving here seem to be all over Facebook and not on this forum. In fact, I'm surprised at their numbers. Thanks for the Facebook update.....after the answers I received about trying to solve the trash issue, I will not be using this Forum again. I will use Facebook instead. Too bad, but this Forum is dominated by some old and really jaded expats. Only so much rudeness one can abide by. This is a dead communication tool, these oldies have just offended all the newcomers, so won't be long before this is forum dead and gone. The nice thing about Facebook is you have to use your name....you can't hide behind some "handle" so no one knows who you are and you can feel free to be a jerk, because you're RVGringo, and no one will ever know your true identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lulugirl Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, FritzLeona said: No...I will not be leaving soon as it seems that you have. I do not have any complaints, I am just looking for ways to help with some obvious problems. I didn't realize I was upsetting a group of jaded expats, who have long since given up on life. Hope you are enjoying Arizona! Probably no trash issue to solve there! RVGringo wasn't talking to you about leaving soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzLeona Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lulugirl said: RVGringo wasn't talking to you about leaving soon. Well....as I read it, he said will you all be leaving soon? I assumed I was part of "all"...and part of complaining about Paradise, even though that was never my intent. I was merely asking for some advice and to hopefully see what could be accomplished to solve the trash issues. After the answers I received, I will try another forum as too many of the "Advanced Members" don't seem to want to be involved in helping solve issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalu Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Alrighty then, time to choose a side... 1. “A messy house is a must - it separates your true friends from other friends. Real friends are there to visit you not your house!” ― Jennifer Wilson 2. “You must know that it is by the state of the lavatory that a family is judged.” ― Pope John XXIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichosalocura Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 FritzLeona, I can assure you that RVGringo was not referring to you when he said "Will you be leaving soon?" He was referring to another member and that member knows very well who he is. In all honesty, RVGringo is one of the more positive and pro-Mexico members on this board. If you have spent any time on this board, you will see right away that there is lots of complaining and bitching going on here and people are always asking why Mexico can't do it the American way which is the best way! So when a person says, why can't they do it here the way they do in the USA, it sends some people off into a hissy. Because, we are in Mexico and we choose to be here and not back in Gringolandia. Sure, sometimes I would like things to be cleaner, more litter free, and for services to run better, and for more products to be available in the stores, but I realize somethings are easier to accept than to try to force Ol' Mejico to change. Sure, we should all go around if we are capable to and pick up trash and all do our part to improve this place. Yes! But it also would behoove us to come to terms with the probability that Ol' Mejico is not going to change to what many of the people´s somewhat lofty expectations on this board are, and if it does, it will take several generations, if not more, and it certainly won't happen during high season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo1 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 hours ago, FritzLeona said: Thanks....but you forgot to mention where I should properly dispose of all the trash...let me know where that may be....thanks! If you don't know where to dispose of the garbage you gather up from the community, you have the same problem as the person with a sofa that doesn't know where to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBearII Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Okay, since I have now had 4 beers and have survived the latest US presidential debate, upon which I will not comment, I wish to say a couple of things: When I moved here 10 years ago this Halloween, there was trash all along the carretera, stuck in the fences, really bad. Not as bad as some places in Mexico that I had heard about. Trash is a modern phenomenon; in days of old, Mexico did not have trash; but then, they didn't have paper towels, Kleenex, TP, takeout cartons..you get the picture. Ajijic Limpio solved the problem. And the last Ajijic Delegado had teams of kids who picked up stray stuff for a small wage, which taught them that trash was a problem. Me, I am not noticing that the situation is bad--here in beautiful La Canacinta west of Ajijic, dogs get into the trash, but people generally clean up whatever detritus is left after the trash trucks come by. I suggest that in your neighborhood, you get out with trash bags and start cleaning up, and the locals will respect and join you, and you will meet your neighbors. Meeting neighbors is a big asset here. Just in case you need help some day, for whatever reason. Nice to know your neighbors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo1 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 hours ago, FritzLeona said: Thanks for the Facebook update.....after the answers I received about trying to solve the trash issue, I will not be using this Forum again. I will use Facebook instead. Too bad, but this Forum is dominated by some old and really jaded expats. Only so much rudeness one can abide by. This is a dead communication tool, these oldies have just offended all the newcomers, so won't be long before this is forum dead and gone. The nice thing about Facebook is you have to use your name....you can't hide behind some "handle" so no one knows who you are and you can feel free to be a jerk, because you're RVGringo, and no one will ever know your true identity. The forum members are not necessarily jaded, just experienced in the way of Mexico. Sort of like freshmen college students are going to solve all the problems of the world, newbies think they are going to change Mexico to something more esthetic, cleaner, quieter and more dog friendly. Ain't gonna happen so don't fret and just enjoy when you like and ignore what you don't like. Life will be better for you here. Or, you can not adapt and return to the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Facebook will not solve anything. You have to know the neighbors and talk to them if you want to change anything and good luck with that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichosalocura Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Well, if you live on an overly filthy street and it bothers you, you have two main options: Clean it up yourself and place that big trashbag in front of your house for the trashmen to take away. Or if your street has some young people on it, tell them you will pay them to pick up the trash. If it is only moderately litter strewn, maybe 50 pesos per kid might get the job done. If you come across a pile of debris from a house renovation or that old couch people keep talking about, just pay a debris remover to remove it for you. You may laugh at the idea of a debris remover, but that job exists here and I have a phone number of guy that specializes in that here in Chapala. In fact he goes door to door looking for escombros or debris to remove for a fee, and he did my house last week! So, there you go, there is still hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 09/10/2016 at 5:30 PM, FritzLeona said: Thanks for the Facebook update.....after the answers I received about trying to solve the trash issue, I will not be using this Forum again. I will use Facebook instead. Too bad, but this Forum is dominated by some old and really jaded expats. Only so much rudeness one can abide by. This is a dead communication tool, these oldies have just offended all the newcomers, so won't be long before this is forum dead and gone. The nice thing about Facebook is you have to use your name....you can't hide behind some "handle" so no one knows who you are and you can feel free to be a jerk, because you're RVGringo, and no one will ever know your true identity. I want you to know that RVGringo is not a man hiding behind that name. He is well known by many and well respected person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bennie2 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 wrong: many years ago it was clean here. since that big nitemare highway much has gotton filthy. fast food dirty plates ect. smelly used clothing places, never had that longtime back. smelly industrial places & trucks dumping cement. toxic in the commerical areas. no im not a street cleaner. the bad streets should pay someone thats a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZee Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 In Perspective: The handling of trash / garbage / junk / old furniture etc. is a service provided by a municipality in various degrees of quality primarily based on economics and the needs of the community (whether appears as a perception or reality.) Social education is a factor, pride in your community plays a part, whether you are a resident or visitor and whether you have a different locale to compare it to. All contribute to the results - good or bad. examples: we owned a beachfront condo in Manzanillo for 10 years. The kilometres of beach from las Brisas to Las Hadas goes from pristine to the holy s.... aftermath following a national holiday weekend. Certainly the hundreds and hundreds of weekend visitors , the every increasing quantity of fast food places, the lack of trash cans and no consistant municipal clean up program all are factors. The city has attempted several times to add more trash cans but they are usually "permanently borrowed" . The dog owners do not carry bags and strangely think stopping to cover the droppings with sand is just as good. ( tip : no barefoot beach walking on Mondays !) my wife and I have always carried trash bags on our morning walks and although it seems to be a lost cause, there is a certain community pride when you meet other strollers of all nationalities doing the same. on the streets at the corners we get huge piles of trash. eventually the city truck comes, some of the residents clean the streets and it starts over the next day. We owned a campground for years in BC and tried a trash can at every site but it cost a fortune in labour and bags at 100 sites. Plus issues with bears, dogs and smell. So built a bear proof, central trash area with large bins. That of course invited complaints from campers that they had to walk a bit to dispose of their trash, and the bigger the bin the larger the garage items. We would find furniture, rv awnings, tires etc. Always amazing to do the campsite cleanup after a weekend. Ever volunteered for a music event or outdoor function and seen the late Sunday aftermath? Ever owned a vacant lot and had to deal with concrete, lawn clippings, tree branches etc.? Realtiy is, trash is an ever increasing net result of " modern" living and will continue to grow, frustrate , and effect daily living. the solutions are complex and as a result I truly believe ignoring it , is not the answer. However just as bad is letting the frustration on the issues get the Better of you. Whether in Manzanillo or British Columbia and now part time living in Ajijic, we will carry trash bags on our walks, we will give large trash bags to neighbours that may not afford them, we will clean up in front of our house and street when it needs it, we will show pride of community and residency. yes some municipal leadership is lacking , yes there will always be weekend warriors who don't care as much as you do, maybe not at all. yes It may look and feel like it's the proverbial "boy and finger in the dike" at times . Just get past that and do what you can and you will have the personal gratification that comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Historically jalisco citizens are litterers. Other mexican states are cleaner by nature. The schools are trying to change that. It is true that bitching on here about anything solves nothing. Call your delegado and tell him/er about the problem and ask for a solution . There is an expat community liaison. I published her name and number on here quite some time ago. Challenge these people to do their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 If you want to see clean and recycling done go to Teotitlan del Valle , Oaxaca. It is an indigenous town and many of them are dirty so I asked how they managed to have this extremely clean town, market street etc and do recycling..Answer the leadership and the community. Le town leaders insist on cleanliness and neighbors put pressure on neighbors, this is how they do it so I guess we all have to go to work. The OP is correct the corner of the carretera and the lateral at RIo Zula is a disgrace.. I would do something is it was accross the street from me ..but I guess that part of the street is not bothered by it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 You don't have to go near that far. Try Mazamitla or Tapalpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 very true I was un Tapalpa for 2 weeks and it is very clean.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 09/10/2016 at 5:24 PM, Mainecoons said: Way to tell it like it is, Fritz! LOL These are the same jaded expats that sat around and looked at the graffiti piling up until a few of us got off our butts and got rid of it. I think this useless local government could double their taxes again and they'd just smile and thank them for the shafting and ask to have their taxes raised some more. But boy howdy, some poor private sector slob had better not short sheet them or they will go ballistic on this board. What is funny is the opinion our Mexican friends have of this government and these gringo enablers. That is exactly it Mainecoons.. You took the matter in your own hands and you and your team eliminated the Lakeside ugly graffiti . That is exactly the action needed . Forget about the government. We all know what it is all about and we will not change it. Not gringos and not anybody in our generation. Complaining to them or about them will not gain any results on practically anything. (Almost as bad as in BC ...just kidding:-)) Your action did. I do not think it went unnoticed and unappreciated by many . Generally, Gringos or Mexicans. The Mexican initiative to challenge and encourage the homeowners to get some local talented artist to put murals on facades of their homes makes the village look interesting and attractive. And I still claim that the Ajijic village is less dirty (thanks to Ajijic limpio and conscious citizens) than it was decade ago. Look at our predecessor (gringos) which stand very high in everybody's eyes not because of complaining about everything and anything but for the action they took for better this community on individual bases. I truly dislike the newcomers who come and see only the negatives this place have and want the rest of the society to solve their problems Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 To say that the authorities are unresponsive depends on the current administration. I have found Chuni Medeles (Ajijic Delegado), Oscar Espana Ramos (Town Attorney) and Javier Degollado (Mayor) very responsive to my concerns. The Ecology department has had good vibes reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 How many times have they been told about the trash situation? The potholes? How long have both been going downhill? How long has it been since we saw any municipal workers cleaning the streets here or fixing anything? Trash didn't get picked up here on Saturday. Now it is all over the streets. There's a pothole around the corner from me that one could lose a Honda Fit in. Been there a year. There's a sink hole in front of my garage I'll have to pay to have repaired. Sorry Harry, the reality is the quality of services from the Chapala government has gone down almost as fast as they've jacked taxes up. This year, yet another ten percent increase, more that 3 times the rate of inflation. Plus the local businesses tell me they've stacked on all manner of jacked up "fees." ("fee" is government speak for a tax they want to pretend is not a tax) In the mean time, 3 million pesos for a "road to Jesus" that has been construction stopped by Conaqua because they screwed that up too. They can't even squander our money competently. Sorry Harry, not buying it. The Chapala government is a disgrace and has been so for quite some time no matter how much one pretends otherwise. It didn't start with this administration but it isn't ending with them either. They don't take any of us seriously including you. We're just cash cows to them. Appreciate your efforts but I think by doing their jobs for them we are all just enablers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 When we came in 16 years ago we were told to put our garbage every morning at the corner of Linda Vista and Ocampo so we had the trash picked up every day then the truck came down 3 times a week to pick up in our street..16 years later they pick up twice a week and sometimes less. The problem I believe is not that the number of time they come but the fact that there is no schedule, sometimes it is in the morning sometimes in the evening so the dogs have plenty of time to make a mess. If we had a reliable schedule and people were not putting the garbage out weather it was a garbage day or not we would have much cleaner streets. I do not like to complain but we went from a daily pick down to twice a week pick up that is not reliable.. The taxes of course did not follow the same pattern.. I have to agree, more taxes less service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 There may be some good results to come from this thread, as awareness is heightened; not so much from the complaining tone, but from the recognition of the needs that could be attended to. The problem remains: Who and how to express those concerns to those with the ability to resolve them......The powers that be in the palacio municipal. The old-timers can help in that effort, as they know the customs and the manners involved. To those who feel that I should not express myself on this forum, I must remind some that Chapala is “home“, as it is the place where I lived longer than any other in my rather mobile life bouncing around some 30+ counties for various reasons. If I were able, I would still be there for whatever time remains to me. As such, I have a deep interest in the area and that seems to fit the requirements for posting here. To those who know me, and have recognized these facts, I offer my thanks and send along abrazos grandes. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 RV it may be "home" in your mind but really you haven't been here to experience the slide in services concurrent with the rapid rise in taxation. While I appreciate your sentiments, you don't have a dog in this fight. it isn't your trash not getting picked up or your streets not getting fixed. If you were here you would know the government is fully aware of what they are doing or not doing and they are fully aware of the concerns. There have been meetings, letters sent, editorials in the local paper, you name it. Harry has knocked himself out on this. The reality is that government in this municipality isn't about delivering equitably and effectively the services they are being paid quite well by Mexican standards for. Both the Mexican and the expat community have tried to work with this government to little or no effect. Things just keep sliding and taxes just keep going up. The problem here is a government that intentionally does not spend wisely or fairly. I can't think of two better examples than that statue in the lake and now the additional boondoggle of the "road to Jesus" while basic services languish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeb Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 No reason not to discuss the problems with trash pick up or any other problems here in our areas. After all, we do pay for those services. It should be just as any other business where the customer should receive what was paid for. It would be good if we could just fire them, not pay, then get a private contractor to handle the services better. I think people complain because there seems to be no recourse. We are forced to pay for something which is unsatisfactory and don't have the option of terminating their services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 If the trash wasn't picked up did anyone call Aseo Publico or the delegado? If the pothole wasn't fixed did anyone call call SIMAPA? All of my calls are attended to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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