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Guests????


mudgirl

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I often read on this board comments from residents (usually as an aside to a completely different topic) who for some reason like to think of themselves as "guests" in Mexico. I am really curious as to the reason for this. Are these people who have never learned Spanish and therefore continue to feel like outsiders? Or are there many who do speak Spanish, have lived here legally many years, and still consider themselves as guests?

I have traveled and lived many places in the world and have never before run across foreigners who have taken up residence in another country, jumping through all the hoops and meeting all the requirements necessary to obtain this status, stating such a thing. 

Mexico did not invite me to move here. Mexico, like many other countries in the world, has a certain set of criteria which must be met in order to become a legal resident. They are not giving us residency status because they are being "nice"- doing so has obvious economic benefits to the country.

The definition of "guest" used to mean someone you invited into your home, or on an outing, without expecting something in exchange (although good guests everywhere usually show their appreciation by taking their hosts out to dinner, helping out with chores, or bringing some gift, etc.) and whom you go out of your way to make comfortable. Now paying hotel customers or vacation home renters (they used to be called renters or customers) are called guests, which to me is just euphemistic newspeak. Like the restaurants which list the meal prices without dollar signs and in small, elegant numbers, this seems designed to indicate that the money exchange involved is simply a distasteful and crass detail which they´d rather not have to deal with, but unfortunately must.

The changing demographics of countries the world over change the country. Do most Americans consider themselves to be guests in the United States because they don´t happen to be the original inhabitants? As Mexico did not invite me, nor goes out of its way to make me comfortable, and charges me to live here, I do not consider myself a "guest" here. Which, by the way, does not mean I don´t appreciate being able to live here.

 

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I don't consider myself a guest either, but  i think some people use this as a way expressing their humility about fitting themselves into the situation rather than running around with their egos in the forefront. That is how i take when people say that. 

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That thinking has always bothered me too. I do not see Mexico as having extended an "invite" to me to come and live here. That was always my decision, not encouraged by anyone, one way or the other.  I rather pride myself that I spend the 6 nicer weather months here and not NOB, but that is my choice, Mexico has not encouraged me thus. And, when I leave, Mexico does not encourage me to "hurry back soon", or at all. I pay my own way while in Mexico, no one lets me stay at a free place or eat for free. (I have been invited in another counryt to go to a person's lake house as a "guest" for a week, where I paid nothing.) I thought that was how all "guests" were supposed to be treated. Not that way for me in Mexico. I could have chosen many other countries and I still would not have been a "guest" there either. YMMD.

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Well...I am not a guest here, I have permanent resident status, but I like to behave like a guest, as this is not my original country, and hey, I like to be respectful of local culture in ALL its various forms. Well, 90% anyway--I am working on the other 10%! My motto: Go forth and be nice to people, and please adjust your headlights so I can venture out after dark without being blinded! But I digress!

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I have been here seventeen years and have always understood that I am a "Guest " of the Culture,  No matter what my Legal/financial/speaking ability is.   I can be a better "Guest"  if I observe and honor  the accepted/respected manners, and social mores.  I will always be an "outsider" to the Culture, therefore a "Guest"

 

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Well, I guess it all depends on how one defines the term "guest."

If guest can be defined as "a person to whom a courtesy has been extended," I would argue that the act of granting a person a visa to visit/stay in Mexico constitutes the extended courtesy.  I am here at the pleasure and discretion of the Mexican authorities.  I have no citizenship "right" to be here, and my visa can be revoked for any sort of reason -- real or imagined.  No doubt, Mexico does derive an economic benefit by my being here, but I don't see how that negates the fact that I was extended the courtesy of a visa.

I personally have no issue or problem with being labeled as a guest in this welcoming country, though I don't expect that others who read this board necessarily should feel this way.

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https://www.boundless.com/economics/textbooks/boundless-economics-textbook/immigration-economics-38/introduction-to-immigration-economics-138/impact-of-immigration-on-the-host-and-home-country-economies-546-12643/

 

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5 hours ago, MexSeekin said:

Well, I guess it all depends on how one defines the term "guest."

If guest can be defined as "a person to whom a courtesy has been extended," I would argue that the act of granting a person a visa to visit/stay in Mexico constitutes the extended courtesy.  I am here at the pleasure and discretion of the Mexican authorities.  I have no citizenship "right" to be here, and my visa can be revoked for any sort of reason -- real or imagined.  No doubt, Mexico does derive an economic benefit by my being here, but I don't see how that negates the fact that I was extended the courtesy of a visa.

I personally have no issue or problem with being labeled as a guest in this welcoming country, though I don't expect that others who read this board necessarily should feel this way.

Good points MexSeekin. Most of will always be outsiders or immigrants-not real Mexicans 

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11 hours ago, virgogirl said:

I don't consider myself a guest either, but  i think some people use this as a way expressing their humility about fitting themselves into the situation rather than running around with their egos in the forefront. That is how i take when people say that. 

virgogirl makes a very good point.  If only to temper our tendencies of being overly direct and forceful which is interpreted as "rude" much of the time in this society.  Mexicans are masters of humility while we often experience that as weakness or indecisiveness.

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9 hours ago, MexSeekin said:

Well, I guess it all depends on how one defines the term "guest."

If guest can be defined as "a person to whom a courtesy has been extended," I would argue that the act of granting a person a visa to visit/stay in Mexico constitutes the extended courtesy.  I am here at the pleasure and discretion of the Mexican authorities.  I have no citizenship "right" to be here, and my visa can be revoked for any sort of reason -- real or imagined.  No doubt, Mexico does derive an economic benefit by my being here, but I don't see how that negates the fact that I was extended the courtesy of a visa.

I personally have no issue or problem with being labeled as a guest in this welcoming country, though I don't expect that others who read this board necessarily should feel this way.

Spot On MexSeekin!  Good example of humility!

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Just one last point on this subject of feeling like a guest or not.  Remember that when Mexico opened it's territory to gringos the first time as long as they respected the sovereignty of Mexico and who had to sign a contract to that affect, those gringos also refused to see themselves as "guests" and lobbied the United States government to seize Texas for themselves and 10 years later, half of the rest of Mexico's land mass!  What a lack of humility to say the least.  It truly is a wonder that they let us live here at all after that!

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Guest bennie2

good post mudgirl. i am a customer, & they charge me to live in the store. no free lunch here. for everyone else, stop kissing mexico's axx. its tired it's old & no ones doing you a favor. there are many places in the US where you can have "good weather" so knock it off. they dont have deep respect for you anyway. most mexicans are not humble people, IMO this is a business arrangement. you get a good exchange rate, they get to charge you more & so on. 

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1 hour ago, bennie2 said:

good post mudgirl. i am a customer, & they charge me to live in the store. no free lunch here. for everyone else, stop kissing mexico's axx. its tired it's old & no ones doing you a favor. there are many places in the US where you can have "good weather" so knock it off. they dont have deep respect for you anyway. most mexicans are not humble people, IMO this is a business arrangement. you get a good exchange rate, they get to charge you more & so on. 

(edited by mod to remove partisan political comment)

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Guest bennie2

"truely a wonder" this guilty weak & frightend mentality is the reason why no one respects america. they dont respect people like you. can you blame them? i certainly dont. you set yourself up to be a rightious victim. mexico wants your $$, end of case. 

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6 minutes ago, bennie2 said:

"truely a wonder" this guilty weak & frightend mentality is the reason why no one respects america. they dont respect people like you. can you blame them? i certainly dont. you set yourself up to be a rightious victim. mexico wants your $$, end of case. 

You have a lot to learn about humility and REAL patriotism.  I'm done here.

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Guest bennie2

xena, most folks here are moronic idealists. im a pragmatic realist. mexico & the US have a business arrangement. no one cares about treaties, kumbaya. americans are good little sheep. mexicans know what time it is & the jokes on you. you are free to see it as you wish. im not a guest, i pay, have no graditude. its all about business. mexico is a resort, a place for old folks to retire, a country for industrial outsourcing. nothing more IMO. 

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Guest bennie2

lulu it works both ways. mudgirl introduced a controversial topic. the webboard is generous enough to allow discussion. you need to see my comments as generalities. im not talking about every mexican or every expat. there's a mindset amoung n americans & europeans which may not be realistic. some of us are guests, others are customers, some are experiencing a spirtual awaking. each to his own, :mellow:lets leave it here.

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I appreciate the responses to my post, it is interesting to read the various views and attitudes.

" Culture" is not an unchanging, set-in-stone thing. The culture of a country or area changes over time according to the changing demographics. A small village where there is no tourism or influx of foreigners is likely to remain more or less the same as far as culture goes for a very long time. But in areas of Mexico, and other places in the world, where there is high tourism and foreign residents, things do change. Not only are foreigners arriving with their culture, but there is also an influx of Mexicans from all areas of Mexico hoping to find work, and to settle, who bring their own attitudes and culture to the table. Anyone who thinks the culture of a native Oaxacan is the same as that of a native Sinaloan, or that the culture of a highly educated Mexican from Monterrey is the same as a small village ranchero, is naive.

Most often, I see those who insist that we are guests in this country, using this attitude to suggest that foreigners who are legal residents should just keep their mouths shut and never complain or attempt to change the attitudes and behavior of the Mexicans they find themselves around, without actually understanding what is in fact part of the culture. Giant amps blasting out ear-splitting decibel levels at times when most people, including average Mexican workers and families are trying to sleep, for instance, is not "Mexican culture". It is simply inconsiderate, disrespectful, self-absorbed behavior no matter where in the world you live. Burning piles of plastic garbage is unhealthy for the entire planet and I see no reason why anyone should feel they have no right to try to educate their neighbors about such things. A man who does some gardening for me told me that another woman he works for, who happens to be an educated Mexican from Mexico City, has taught him a lot about health and environmental issues and that he appreciated being educated thus and has changed his ways because of it. There are various ways to approach these things and of course it should be done in a gentle, respectful, and friendly manner. As they say, you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar.

And since when are "guests" asked to show financial statements?

 

 

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I'm not what I'd call a "guest", any more than my ancestors from Europe were "guests" when they landed on the shores of the U.S.A.  I'm an immigrant, and since I have attained the state of "Permanente", I'm simply a resident.  Can't vote and can't join the army, so there are limits to my resident priveleges.  What's the problem with just accepting the fact that we weren't invited, but we're allowed to live here unless we create such a kerfuffle that we get booted out?

What's the difference in what we call ourselves?

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