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Tourist visa


shirlppt

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We drove down with a tourist visa of 180 days and so have the coordinated car tag and Aduana associated with it.  We are flying round trip  to Houston and then to Europe next month.  If we turn in our tourist visa when we fly, the new visa issued on our return to Mexico will not be associated with our car.  Do we lose our $400?  Is there some way to prevent this?  Thanks for any replies.

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Tourist are not permitted to leave Mexico without taking their vehicle with them. Your car will become illegal the moment you leave Mexico without it. This can invalidate your insurance and subject the vehicle to confiscation if it is discovered, as it would be in the event of a serious accident involving injury to persons or to infrastructure. The loss of your deposit could be the least of your worries.

On the other hand, some have done this without incident, never being caught or in an accident, and many of them seemed blissfully unaware of the potential consequences, feeling “entitled“ to do as they please, in spite of Mexican law.

I suggest that you drive to Houston, removing the car TIP with Banjercito, as required, protecting your deposit, and then return with a new TIP upon your return to Mexico.  This would have the advantage of allowing you to stay in Mexico for a new 180 day period, if you wish.

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I disagree with RV, as do those who work with foreigners (such as Lawyers and Facilitators) , helping get visas and Tips. He is just trying to scare you and put fear into you, for no reason. He does not live in Mexico, and is not current in the workings of Immigration , nor Aduana.You are not at danger of losing anything, as long as you follow the date on your Tip to return your car at the Border. If you have further doubts, check with Spencer and Sonia. Have a nice trip !

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Good luck, then.  Your TIP expires when your immigration status ends; as in the moment you exit Mexico and surrender your FMM at the airport in order to board the plane to the USA.

 

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I disagree with HUD.... less on the subject at hand but on his complete dismissal of RVGRINGO's "credentials". Correct, he no long lives in Mexico due to health/altitude reasons. Not his choice. But contrary to HUD's dismissal of him, RVGRINGO's information on this subject is not scare tactics and nothing has changed on this subject since RV's departure from Mexico. My opinion of course.

Yes, 'plenty' of folks have done this (fly out/back in and later leave cancelling TIP), myself included, in the past without any negative consequences. But some folks have been 'caught' and lost their deposit. As with many things in Mexico, stuff like this just depends on 'who/where' is checking the paperwork and their training/understanding of the Permit law. My thoughts are that the more Mexico increases their computerization of 'things'.... and it is increasing.... the more they are able to detect these situations.

The OP should be aware that there are possibilities that he/she will loose the deposit, but IMO that is not currently a probability but rather a possibility.

 

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" If we turn in our tourist visa when we fly, the new visa issued on our return to Mexico will not be associated with our car.  Do we lose our $400?  Is there some way to prevent this?  Thanks for any replies. "

 

I am curious what you mean by "associated with our car." Been getting tourist permits and TIPs since 1999 and have NEVER found any connection between the 2, except they used the expiration date on my TP(tourist permit) as the expiration date on my TIP(car cannot be in Mexico longer than that first TP), when I get one. Other than that, no connection (the TIP does NOT have my TP number, etc.). Often, my TP and my TIP will have different dates, as I fly out and then fly back in. Sadly, they will not extend the time on my TIP, unless I turn it in and get a new one ( more expense), so often I will have 2 differing expiration dates on my TP and TIP. You have absolutely NOTHING to worry about, but I suggest that you ask INTERCASA and/or SONIA, as this Board provides a lot of good info at times, but at other times, you will find lots of "experts" who really know nothing.

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RickS says "But some folks have been 'caught' and lost their deposit." THAT STATEMENT is 100% FALSE ! He, nor NO ONE else can prove it, because that has NEVER happened. And, what does RickS mean by this: "The OP should be aware that there are possibilities that he/she will loose the deposit, but IMO that is not currently a probability but rather a possibility." See, he doesn't even know what he is saying. Funny, no !

 The poster above (Bowie) is correct, too many "experts" here, at times, that know nothing about which they post. He is also correct in saying that there is NOT an association between the tourist paper and the car importation sticker. You have the 2 papers, check them out for yourself.

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The FMM does indicate your method of entry, land or air.  An “inconsistency“ becomes obvious whe an official notices that a tourist is driving his car in Mexico, but that he arrived by air.  That is when the questions may begin.  True, it will probably not happen unless there is an accident and an injury, when the legality of the vehicle becomes very important.

Rick understands this.  It appears that others don‘t want to understand it.

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If you check the TIP, you will not find the passport number, nor any number from the Tourist Permit. Those 2 items stand alone. RV, the Tourist Permit and the TIP can have differing expiration dates. RV, you are fabricating things that you "think might happen", but have never happened and never will. Please talk from experience and do not "make up" things that are "wild" to scare people. Thank you.

BTW, RV, you overlook the fact that many people have come to Mexico with a car and a TIP, and fly out many times and back, and never remove their car until the TIP expires. Some of these folks are on tourist permits and some are on a RT. Either way, there is NOT a problem, because when they are in Mexico, they are legal, and so is their car. And, it does NOT matter in the least how one enters and exits Mexico, as long as they are in Mexico legally. RV, why don't you ask Spencer and Sonia, who work with Immigration and Aduana daily, and who have both stated here thatwhat you say is incorrect?

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If you have an FMM, visitante, and an Importada Temporal with different expiration dates, you have violated the rules.  Simple.  

But, if you wish to do it your way, go ahead. 

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The reason I associated the TIP with the passport number(in another post above) is that when you check the mexican system (Spencer gave me the link) to see if old, uncancelled TIPs exist under your name, you input your VIN along with the passport you used when importing that vehicle. So while the passport #s, Tourist card #s, and TIP numbers do not contain each other's numbers on any document, they are connected in the computerized system. 

I think RV is right, it is just you don't hear much about people getting popped for it. Because you probably only get popped if there is a crisis/accident like he said. It is just that, for me, I'd rather do things right, be informed and avoid problems when I can.

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I would like that link, if you would share with me. TIA.

BTW, I always try to do things the "legal" way and always try to avoid problems that could arise. No one has ever offered any proof that anyone has ever been "popped" for doing what RV says is illegal. Until it happens to one person, I will continue to do what I have been told by authorities is legal. I would NEVER want to be illegal in Mexico, as I have seen the inside of a Mexican jail, once. THAT is an experience no extranjero would ever want to experience, believe me.

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5 hours ago, virgogirl said:

The reason I associated the TIP with the passport number(in another post above) is that when you check the mexican system (Spencer gave me the link) to see if old, uncancelled TIPs exist under your name, you input your VIN along with the passport you used when importing that vehicle. So while the passport #s, Tourist card #s, and TIP numbers do not contain each other's numbers on any document, they are connected in the computerized system. 

I think RV is right, it is just you don't hear much about people getting popped for it. Because you probably only get popped if there is a crisis/accident like he said. It is just that, for me, I'd rather do things right, be informed and avoid problems when I can.


Virgogirl is correct.  The TIP paper document lists only part of the information.

In addition to Virgogirl's report of seeing her 6 month Visitante Visa number listed in the Aduana/Banjercito record,  I too have carefully looked through the Banjercito computer database information records on TIPs and both times, the Banjercito computer records show the INM immigration permit/visa number in their record.

Banjercito is the agency that retains our TIP deposits,  so their records are the ones that count.

Further, Aduana agents at 2 different border crossings have twice told us that if the visitor visa holder flies out of Mexico, surrendering their 6 month visa before it expires,  then Aduana considers the TIP cancelled.

Hud ... Bowie ....  Will you reimburse people who lose their deposits for following your mistaken advice?

Money talks.
 

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Snowy, I have been informed by Aduana that there is not a problem with me having 2 different dates on my Tip and Tourist Permit. They tell me that one is not dependent on the other. I have been told this at least 3 times, at the Border entry (Laredo and Pharr). I plan to continue to do as they tell me. I challenge you to show me anyone who has been "popped" ,as virgogirl says, for having 2 different dates. Many people drive into Mexico, take a plane to Cuba, Guatemala, etc. and return with a new dated Tourist Permit and no one has ever had a problem, because there is no law that says it is not a correct procedure.  I also would like to check for myself in that web site if you or virgogirl can produce that site address for me, as I really doubt that the tourist permit number is listed there. (The Passport number certainly, but that only proves who imported the car). If it is not, you are just blowing more smoke, and providing incorrect info again. But, even if it is, that only proves that is the Permit that was used to set the date on the TIP, nothing more.  So, put up, or... :D 

BTW, here is some more info for you: when a person turns in their TIP, NEVER is that person asked for their Tourist Permit, to see if the car is still legally in Mexico. You are asked for a copy of your Passport only, when you receive your refund in cash (as I do every time) . If there was any doubt by Aduana about the car being in Mexico legally, that is the time they could verify it EASILY ( and everyone knows Aduana just loves to keep TIP deposits). To be in Mexico legally, the car must have a TIP and be returned by the expiration date on that TIP. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or any scientist for that matter) to understand this. Show me your PROOF, Snowy, not your interpretation or your opinion that what I do and what Bowie says he does violates any law. (You can't, don't waste your time.) Still waiting for that website address,.,,,

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36 minutes ago, Hud said:

Snowy, I have been informed by Aduana that there is not a problem with me having 2 different dates on my Tip and Tourist Permit. They tell me that one is not dependent on the other. I have been told this at least 3 times, at the Border entry (Laredo and Pharr). I plan to continue to do as they tell me. I challenge you to show me anyone who has been "popped" ,as virgogirl says, for having 2 different dates. Many people drive into Mexico, take a plane to Cuba, Guatemala, etc. and return with a new dated Tourist Permit and no one has ever had a problem, because there is no law that says it is not a correct procedure.  I also would like to check for myself in that web site if you or virgogirl can produce that site address for me, as I really doubt that the tourist permit number is listed there. (The Passport number certainly, but that only proves who imported the car). If it is not, you are just blowing more smoke, and providing incorrect info again. But, even if it is, that only proves that is the Permit that was used to set the date on the TIP, nothing more.  So, put up, or... :D 

BTW, here is some more info for you: when a person turns in their TIP,   NEVER   is that person asked for their Tourist Permit, to see if the car is still legally in Mexico. You are asked for a copy of your Passport only, when you receive your refund in cash (as I do every time) . If there was any doubt by Aduana about the car being in Mexico legally, that is the time they could verify it EASILY ( and everyone knows Aduana just loves to keep TIP deposits). To be in Mexico legally, the car must have a TIP and be returned by the expiration date on that TIP. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or any scientist for that matter) to understand this. Show me your PROOF, Snowy, not your interpretation or your opinion that what I do and what Bowie says he does violates any law. (You can't, don't waste your time.) Still waiting for that website address,.,,,

"when a person turns in their TIP,  NEVER  is that person asked for their Tourist Permit,"

I have personally had Banjercito require copies of the INM permit to return two past deposits.

Should we believe people who say:    "ALWAYS"  or "NEVER" ... especially with Mexican Government things?

Your personal experiences are interesting, and possibly useful,   but they certainly do not measure up to  "ALWAYS"  or "NEVER" standards.
.

.
"Aduana just loves to keep TIP deposits "

These are yet more personal musings by Hud,  that    should be ignored.

Aduana does NOT keep our TIP deposits.   If readers go to the border,   you must go to   Banjercito   to get your TIP deposit.


Banjercito is a bank ...   Aduana is a part of the SAT government ministry.   

Ignore Hud...
They are in different offices, at different locations at the border crossings,   and Aduana does NOT handle our TIP deposits.

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1 hour ago, Hud said:

Snowy, I have been informed by Aduana that there is not a problem with me having 2 different dates on my Tip and Tourist Permit. They tell me that one is not dependent on the other. I have been told this at least 3 times, at the Border entry (Laredo and Pharr). I plan to continue to do as they tell me. I challenge you to show me anyone who has been "popped" ,as virgogirl says, for having 2 different dates. Many people drive into Mexico, take a plane to Cuba, Guatemala, etc. and return with a new dated Tourist Permit and no one has ever had a problem, because there is no law that says it is not a correct procedure. 

I also would like to check for myself in that web site if you or virgogirl can produce that site address for me, as I really doubt that the tourist permit number is listed there. (The Passport number certainly, but that only proves who imported the car). If it is not, you are just blowing more smoke, and providing incorrect info again. But, even if it is, that only proves that is the Permit that was used to set the date on the TIP, nothing more.  So, put up, or... :D 

BTW, here is some more info for you: when a person turns in their TIP, NEVER is that person asked for their Tourist Permit, to see if the car is still legally in Mexico. You are asked for a copy of your Passport only, when you receive your refund in cash (as I do every time) . If there was any doubt by Aduana about the car being in Mexico legally, that is the time they could verify it EASILY ( and everyone knows Aduana just loves to keep TIP deposits). To be in Mexico legally, the car must have a TIP and be returned by the expiration date on that TIP. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or any scientist for that matter) to understand this. Show me your PROOF, Snowy, not your interpretation or your opinion that what I do and what Bowie says he does violates any law. (You can't, don't waste your time.)

Still waiting for that website address,.,,,

"I also would like to check for myself in that web site if you or virgogirl can produce that site address for me"
"Still waiting for that website address,.,,,"

Really,  rather than making hollow challenges...   Don't be lazy.   Read for yourself,  the latest "SAT Manual de usarios:  Para realizar el trámite de Internación Temporal de Vehiculos... "

It's a common pdf webfile on the SAT website.

Since you may be Spanish-limited,   start with this quote of the official SAT rules on this:

"III  "Permiso de internación temporal de vehiculos"
...
En ningún caso y por ningún motivo, el usario puede modificar los datos asentados en el permiso, ya que cualquier alteración invalidaria el mismo,  en caso de que interesado pretenda agregar, modificar, o eliminar del permiso cualquier dato o información registrado en el mismo,  debe solicitar su cancelación  y obtener un nuevo permiso."


It is important to not trust Aduana websites, because their information has been out of date for years,  while (for years) the SAT manuals are  "The Bible"   of Aduana rules and regulations of how things are supposed to be done.

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29 minutes ago, Hud said:

And, the famous website you mention? Still waiting...  :D

And, your PROOF? Still waiting..  :D

.
I provided the proof above:

Don't be lazy.  
Read for yourself,  the latest "SAT Manual de usarios:  Para realizar el trámite de Internación Temporal de Vehiculos... "

I even provided the applicable SAT official quote on that in the post above.

Do you need that quote translated?


The version that was approved in   November 2014    still works fine.

As I wrote above,  you can find a copy on the SAT website.
;)

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Looks like hud has "gotcha" ! That article says what I do (and hud does) is not against the law. You are not able to translate it and interpret it correctly; that is your problem, not others.

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