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That is exactly why we are in Arizona, and will soon be in Texas; we are too old for coverage in Mexico, and not able to continue the 'out of pocket' procedures.  As such, we had to leave Chapala in 2014 for the ability to use VA and Medicare in Arizona, as well as get my old lungs to a lower elevation. Now, we are in the process of downsizing further, and going to almost sea level in the Rio Grande Valley.  The realtor and photographer are due in an hour.

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45 minutes ago, gringal said:

Many other people have no choice.  Some are excluded from mainstream health insurance because of age; some by pre-existing conditions.  Plus, there are limits to one's wealth and ability to pay.

I have heard a point of view that seems extreme: if one can't pay, he/she should look for charity or just be sick/die.  Fortunately, the Mexican constitution says otherwise.🙂

There will be some form of medical care available, according to AMLO.  The question is: will it be available to expats who are not Citizens?

The newspaper article that I linked to specifically said that the health insurance that will replace Seguro Popular will be available first in the most rural areas and to the neediest people.

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On 10/3/2018 at 9:46 AM, More Liana said:

Alan, that's the SAME INFORMATION (different news source) that I linked to in my post last night.  You pooh-poohed it, said Seguro Popular couldn't possibly be discontinued, and then posted a link to an article from this past July.  I find your attitude difficult to take and frankly I'm offended.  Don't call people out unless you know they're truly wrong.  Did you even bother to open the link I posted?  I doubt it.

I rarely post something here unless I know what I'm talking about.  I watched our president-elect on Sept 29, heard him give the speech, and looked up the link to post it here.  

So you read my critique of the substance of the speech with the opening lines that I will paraphrase: Peoples' Health Insurance (Seguro Popular) is not health insurance nor is it the peoples'.  Armageddon is coming to the Seguro Popular Dec. 1st. . It will no longer exist and will be gone. When actually the Morena party is simply planning to change a few things.

All health care providers World wide concentrate on primary care. Nothing new there or Earth shattering

 Dr.s and nurses get a raise and administrators get a pay cut or leave if they don't like it.

More medicines and a better supply.

Dr.s get a tenure.

20,00,000 citizens need access to health care through the Seguro Popular that don't have it now in isolated rural areas.

Anything you found out differently from me?

Your link didn't say much about the SP and was more about school children getting paid to attend school and the amounts and university scholarships and the amounts and citizens 65 and over getting their SEDESOL check for $1,274 pesos every month soon instead of that amount every 2 months as it has been for decades.

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12 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

So you read my critique of the substance of the speech with the opening lines that I will paraphrase: Peoples' Health Insurance (Seguro Poular) is not health insurance nor is it the peoples'. Amegedon is coming to the Seguro Popular Dec. 1st. . It will no longer exist and will be gone. When actually the Morena party is simply planning to change a few things.

All health care providers World wide concentrate on primary care. Nothing new there or Earth shattering

 Dr.s and nurses get a raise and administrators get a pay cut or leave if they don't like.

More medicines and a better supply.

Dr.s get a tenure.

Anything you found out differently from me?

Your link didn't say much about the SP and was more about school children getting paid to attend school and the amounts and university scholarships and the amounts and citizens 65 and over getting their SEDESOL check for $1,160 pesos every month soon instead of that amount every 2 months as it has been for decades.

The link I posted from Sept 29 was a link to the text of the speech that the President-elect gave in Pachuca, Hidalgo, announcing the end of Seguro Popular and some information about what would take its place.  It is identical text to what you posted hours later, after you posted that there was no way Seguro Popular could end in response to my post.

 

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On 10/3/2018 at 4:11 PM, More Liana said:

The link I posted from Sept 29 was a link to the text of the speech that the President-elect gave in Pachuca, Hidalgo, announcing the end of Seguro Popular and some information about what would take its place.  It is identical text to what you posted hours later, after you posted that there was no way Seguro Popular could end in response to my post.

 

Look, the Seguro Popular as an institution is not going to end or be changed much. It is modern day socalized medicine recognized and modeled after all socalized medicine in all successful social democracies Worldwide and has proven itself to function well and plus the people need it and are using it. The speech was what bothered me not you posting it. Your link had almost no information regarding ending the SP but my link has lots of information of the proposed changes. If the Morena Party have decided to change the Seguro Popular' s name - If so why not just say so. What the Morena Party says and does will be interesting with this huge issue but I know they will leave it alone as it is with the minor changes to mark their territory but it still doesn't make it their own. It belongs to Mexicans whether they know it or not and the ones who do don't need any politican claiming he owns it now after Mexicans have paid IVA taxes and invested billions of dollars creating it. It is close to being finished.

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55 minutes ago, More Liana said:

The newspaper article that I linked to specifically said that the health insurance that will replace Seguro Popular will be available first in the most rural areas and to the neediest people.

It sounds like it will be the end for those expats who are currently enrolled, since we couldn't have been eligible for temporal or permanente status if we were actually "needy".

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18 hours ago, gringal said:

It sounds like it will be the end for those expats who are currently enrolled, since we couldn't have been eligible for temporal or permanente status if we were actually "needy".

Don't worry about that. Federal law de salud prohibits discrimination. Federal immigration law gives all legal residents the right to use Mexico's public resources. 

Just drove past the SLP state university and saw the progress on our new 7 story state of the art SP hospital being built on the same lot as the old SP hospital. Huge and being built as fast as lightening.  SP hospitals help train medical students next door. Artist's drawing of our soon to be completed World class Seguro Popular hospital.

 

http://planoinformativo.com/603120/hospital-central-sera-de-primer-mundo-slp

 Google translation:

" State Governor Juan Manuel Carreras López and Federal Health (Secretaria de Salud) Secretary Jose Narro Robles, formally started and presented the project of replacement and equipment for the new Central Hospital "Ignacio Morones Prieto", with an unprecedented investment of more than 1,333 million of pesos.

With this important work is achieved, fundamentally, the strengthening in the care of people with a more dignified service, the improvement of services with cutting edge technology and the promotion of teaching and medical research.

The head of the Secreteria de Salud stressed that this important project will have a coverage of 1.5 million inhabitants, so it has the support of the President of the Republic Enrique Peña Nieto, who allocated the resources for the development of this modern hospital infrastructure that will have a important impact in our entity and neighboring states since we treat patients from Zacatecas, Tamaulipas, Guanajuato, Jalisco and Hidalgo, among others. "

h3.jpg

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There seems to be a major 'political' difference between the print sources quoted by More Liana and Alan. The distinctions between socialized medicine, universal health care, and single payer healthcare are important. It is almost though Seguro Popular is Obamacare, associated with PRI, and the incoming admin prefers a socialized medicine model, reaching to the nation's most poor and marginalized.

Nevertheless, Seguro Popular seems to be well accepted and appreciated by poor, middle class and even the wealthy. The doctors are first rate, and motivated, and facilities/services seem to be expanding at a rapid rate. There are sometimes delays in prescriptions, so you are best bringing your own and then let them dispense them (to only you, of course). There are always sort of co-pays too - I mentioned the MRI for 2,500 pesos, the rental for the kidney stone laser is 12,000 to 14,000, the rental for gall bladder removal brace is 4,000 pesos. The hospital social workers might ask if you have dirt floors, and running water in your home, opening up a whole new layer of subsidies, but they know being permanente you have to pass income requirements. After the current three year 'grace period' that Seguro Popular, or whatever it is called by that time, will likely require an annual fee, based on income, much like IMSS.

In the end though, for socialised/universal healthcare to work, it does not require a criticism and "what have you done for me lately" attitude. It requires grassroots community involvement, especially for the kids. You will never hear of anyone donating time and money to an IMSS hospital or a private hospital. Seguro Popular has done much to remove religion from this process, although it is still very strong. I have trying to find a hospital social worker and community activist who is bilingual, and can help put together a list of volunteer and fundraising opportunities. No luck so far. We have been very lucky here at Lakeside, to get on the positive side of the locals, with so many worthwhile charities and endeavors. Let's keep it going. Sometimes, I think the way things are going on in the North, we may have to call in some of the kindness  we have shared in our earlier Mexican years. Just a thought.

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Seguro Popular doesn´t exist in Mexico according to this article

https://news.yahoo.com/mexican-president-seeks-revamp-health-care-poor-235010474.html;_ylt=AwrXgyIUcBRcJXwA0EPQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

 

" Mexico already has one system for private-sector workers whose employers contribute health insurance payments, and another system for government employees.
Farmers, the self-employed and street vendors fall outside those plans.
"More than half the population has no health insurance," Lopez Obrador said. "So this program is for them. It is for everybody, but the emphasis is to care for those with no insurance, the poorest people." "

Seguro Popular doesn´t exist in Mexico according to this article

Obrador stated the Seguro Popular won't exist according to an above news article quoted in this older thread when he takes over and he now confirms it by ..... .?

 The problem is Seguro Popular does exist and has about 57,000,000 members or  almost half of the population. IMMS has about 49,000,000 members close to one half of the population. ISSSTE - Federal Employees health insurance mentioned in the quote has many less.

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https://www.saludiario.com/los-problemas-del-sector-educativo-le-han-quitado-reflectores-a-la-salud-publica-amlo/

This is the latest from him. I have been in dozens of Socialized Medicine hospitals and clinics for 25 years. They are not as described here. More hype and disinformation. How is the new hospital in Joco and the ones in Guadalajara? The last admimistration spent billions of taxpayers dollars on them and did a great job. Now this type of public statement from the president is outrageous.

"Today in SaludiarioNews

The problems of the education sector have removed "reflectors" to public health: AMLO

The president said that the education system and the Mexican public health sector were abandoned by past administrations.

By

Rodrigo Rojas

02/20/2019

Among the various problems facing our country, one of the most serious is related to public health. All that is required is to go to any unit and observe the facilities and equipment they have. If you work in some of them, you may notice that it is a situation that is increasingly critical.

In this regard, Andrés Manuel López Obrador reprized the subject. He reiterated his comparison between the educational system and the Mexican public health sector. He explained that both were abandoned by past administrations and now face severe challenges. Similarly, he said that while the issue of education has received media attention, health has been forgotten.

I have argued on several occasions that the public health system is worse than the education system. What happens is that in the issue of education there was a lot of ideological charge, it became polarized. In contrast, the problems in the health sector were never discussed.

 

In this regard, he noted that public hospitals are in poor condition and lack of medication and healing material. Although he assured that this will not be repeated because it is already working to find a solution.

Another aspect that he mentioned was improving the working conditions of health professionals. He promised to change the situation of more than 80 thousand employees hired for fees or part-time. He mentioned that providing them with full time work certainty will help improve their professional performance. "

 

Everyone know the Doctors work 4 to 5 hours per day Mon. thru Fri. and then go to their private practise the rest of the day and sometimes on Sat. Why would they need a full day for low wages at the IMSS, ISSSTE or Seguro Popular? Diversion and irrevelant thing to say as if they go home with nothing to do the rest of the day and with no money. Why not tell the truth?. IMO

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https://lasillarota.com/amp/especialeslsr/desmantelar-el-seguro-popular-seria-catastrofico-julio-frenk-seguro-popular-salud-imss-issste/270610

"Dismantling Seguro Popular would be catastrophic: Julio Frenk

10 FEBRUARY 2019 - 08:30 p.m.

The creator of the Seguro Popular affirms that it is necessary to combat corruption and move towards Universal Insurance

by MARILUZ ROLDÁN AND IRMA ROSA MARTÍNEZ

The disappearance of Seguro Popular as proposed by President Andrés Manuel López Obrador and earmarking the resources of the Protection Fund against Catastrophic Expenditures for other purposes would be "a catastrophe" for thousands of people receiving treatment for complex and costly diseases, said Julio Frenk Mora, Former Secretary of Health.

He warned that what is known at the moment of the health plan of the current administration - AMLO - is similar to the model of public monopoly that exists in Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba, more than that of the Scandinavian countries, which is what the president claims he wants. López Obrador.

The creator of Seguro Popular recommended "not to spoil what already works" and move towards Universal Insurance, in which the provision of health services is multiple and people have the option to choose the hospital they prefer, regardless of be it from IMSS or from ISSSTE.

He stressed that the biggest challenge in the health system "is not to spoil what already works", so he emphasized that it is not necessary to change everything that exists in order to fight corruption, only some adjustments must be made.

If I have a company and I find out that the accountant is stealing my money, I do not close the company, I dismiss the accountant, I put him in jail. The solution is not to end the Seguro Popular, it is to end corruption, "said who was Secretary of Health during the presidency of Vicente Fox.

The current president of the University of Miami stressed that there are three other important challenges: to have the necessary budget, provide services that have high quality and end segregation, so that everyone has access to benefits.

Q: What is your opinion about the health plan that the current government is proposing?

A: In fact, the official health plan has not yet been proposed, because in fact what there is in Mexico is a law of planning for development that gives six months to each government to present the National Development Plan of that administration .

After that the sectoral programs are presented, including the National Health Program, then we are still within that period to present that document in an official way. Several announcements have been made, particularly at the President's conference on December 14, in which he announced some actions such as the re-centralization of health services and, above all, we have heard that there is the idea of canceling or dismantling Seguro Popular.

The budget to reconfigure the health sector

Instead what I am reading is rather the type of public monopoly model, where there is only one provider, who is also the financier, where there is all the discretion of the government to see how much money it gives to health and that is the model that we see today in very few countries like Cuba and Venezuela, and both are very bad.

Q: But on December 14 they presented it as the Health Plan ...

A: Maybe that term was used, but it is not the document called the National Health Program, which is presented after the six-month period for the global plan has passed.

When it was my turn to be secretary, we were the first sectorial program, in July 2001, that is, they had barely started the six months, because we already had it ready. There is a lot in which the administration has advanced, but what I want to say is that it is not the complete plan yet, there are many details that are missing.

Q: The argument that you are raising regarding the Seguro Popular is on the subject of corruption and everything seems to indicate that there was poor management of resources, particularly of the governments of the states, would that justify the recentralization of the administration of resources?

A: No, here the problem is corruption, the problem is not the recentralization, much less the Seguro Popular. One effect, I think that very positive of Seguro Popular was that with the legislation that was passed in 2003, the tax obligation of the Mexican State was put into the law for each person who joins the Seguro Popular."

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Seguro Popular and ISSSTE in 8 states are now rolled in to IMSS and every 6 months anther 8 states will be added. Now is the time to join SP. IMSS which currently has a much higher fee of 6000 to 9000 pesos per year, denies coverage to those with pre-existing conditions and does not provide full coverage until year three. What happens after Seguro Popular joins IMSS I do not know but I encourage people if they want this healthcare to enrol with Seguro Popular now and have 3 years of known cost and requirements.

http://www.soniadiaz.mx/health-care.html

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9 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

What is the current yearly charge for seguro popular?  I’m 72 and my wife is 70yo. 

Here it is zero. No questions either about income or living conditions. It takes ten minutes to enroll, just place your documents into the window and your policy will be in your hands without questions or fanfare. It is easier to get than an INAPAM card.

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It will take longer than 10 minutes if you are required to provide proof of residency like a letter from the Presidencia along with foto and supporting documentation.  I forget the legal term for the letter.  After you do all of that, then yes 10 min at the SP hospital.

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8 minutes ago, Kiko said:

It will take longer than 10 minutes if you are required to provide proof of residency like a letter from the Presidencia along with foto and supporting documentation.  I forget the legal term for the letter.  After you do all of that, then yes 10 min at the SP hospital.

Telmex bill and no photo worked for me. I just had a newer arrival go and he was amazed at how quick it was. He doesn't know ten words in Spanish and that too was not a problem. 

 

The requirements for popular insurance that must be met to be part of the popular insurance are:

Reside in the national territory.

Not be a person entitled to any institution that provides social security such as ISSSTE or IMSS among others.

Cover the family fee when appropriate.

The important thing is not how much the popular insurance costs but the documents that are needed to join the popular insurance that are:

Proof of address of no more than two months old

Birth certificate or CURP of each member of the family

official identification with photograph of the person who owns the family

If the interested person is a student of 18 to 25 years of age, a proof of studies must be presented.

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Astonishing that so many expats feel entitled to use the healthcare system (SP) they have never paid into...how, exactly, do you justify that? For those who have worked and paid taxes in Mexico there is a significant difference. If you can afford to qualify for temporal or permanente, can you not buy private insurance, leaving more money in the system for the impoverished?

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13 minutes ago, IMBurnen said:

Astonishing that so many expats feel entitled to use the healthcare system (SP) they have never paid into...how, exactly, do you justify that? For those who have worked and paid taxes in Mexico there is a significant difference. If you can afford to qualify for temporal or permanente, can you not buy private insurance, leaving more money in the system for the impoverished?

And I wonder how many ex-pats who speak out against "socialized" health care up north are more than happy to sign up for IMSS or SP down here?

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The concept that healthcare is a human right is one that I subscribe to on both sides of the border. Many other countries think so too.

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3 hours ago, IMBurnen said:

Astonishing that so many expats feel entitled to use the healthcare system (SP) they have never paid into...how, exactly, do you justify that? For those who have worked and paid taxes in Mexico there is a significant difference. If you can afford to qualify for temporal or permanente, can you not buy private insurance, leaving more money in the system for the impoverished?

O.K. - I will give it a shot. Firstly, I am only used to public health care in Canada and the U.K. - I have no problem in a shared ward, no need for the "private resort" experience of the private hospitals. Get in, get out, soon as possible. Our first experiments with private insurance were a disaster - inflation of 17% per year. Secondly, the principle of reciprocity, if a Mexican family is admitted as permanent residents to Canada, they recieve cradle to grave medical care, education, and a host of other social safety nets. We are permanent residents to Mexico, quid pro quo- benefits. We also pay I.V.A. on many things, which is a consumption form of taxation - the more you buy, the more you pay. Mexican I.V.A. pays for public health care in Mexico. Income inequality is an issue in Mexico we can do very little about, other than volunteerism. Lots of unpaid volunteers in public hospitals.

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Seguro Popular encourages membership including residents with a visa. Although some states only allow PR to join.

The last time I checked expats who own property pay property taxes. They also buy many items with IVA including clothes,  utilities, gasoline and much more. Sadly, in Mexico about half the population lives in poverty and usually pays less tax (practically zero) vs most expats as I noted. 

I too have questioned how those who have an issue with ACA (so called socialized medicine) in the US would apply for IMSS or SP. 

 

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On 2/26/2019 at 9:08 PM, Sonia said:

Seguro Popular encourages membership including residents with a visa. Although some states only allow PR to join.

The last time I checked expats who own property pay property taxes. They also buy many items with IVA including clothes,  utilities, gasoline and much more. Sadly, in Mexico about half the population lives in poverty and usually pays less tax (practically zero) vs most expats as I noted. 

I too have questioned how those who have an issue with ACA (so called socialized medicine) in the US would apply for IMSS or SP. 

 

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/amlo-announces-new-health-care-program/

 

The president introduces new healthcare scheme.The president introduces new healthcare scheme.

AMLO announces new health care program for those outside existing ones

 

New institute will provide medical services to 60 million uninsured
Wednesday, April 10, 2019
The federal government has announced the creation of a new health care program for people not covered by the IMSS and ISSTE social security schemes.

 

At an event yesterday to mark World Health Day, President López Obrador said that a new government department to be called the National Institute of Health for Well-Being will provide medical services to more than 60 million Mexicans without insurance.

“We’re going to restructure the whole health system . . .” he declared."

According to this article dated this week there is no Seguro Popular.

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