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IMSS vs. SP

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The laws changed two years ago.  I had to go to the new IMSS  Hospital.  No charge for the tests but required many many trips and very early in the mornings.  I used a law office because I am not fluent in Spanish and wanted to make sure I did it correctly.  I had IMSS prior to the change .

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On October 1, 2018, I visited a Mexican person who is in the business of helping qualified applicants join IMSS.  She tells me that if you have ANY pre-existing condition, including high blood pressure, you will be rejected.  Further, she says that one must join WITH a family member (spouse, child...).  That means that both must pass the required physical exams.  Before the exams, you pay the fee.  Fail the exam and you lose the fee.  It may have been true in 2016 that anyone could join but seems no longer to be the case.  I double-checked the info with an attorney who confirmed.  Since either person would make money by helping me join IMSS, I figure they would give it a try if they thought there was a chance.  I'm healthy; my spouse is not.  I wouldn't even try to sign him up and without him, I have no other family member who is a resident of Mexico.  If you have a different and recent experience, please share.

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18 hours ago, Sorn said:

If the part about denials for any pre-existing condition is true, then I presume it's shifting enrollment into SP?

Well shifting all tne high risk customers from IMSS to SP will ensure SP will collapse in the not so distant future 

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1 hour ago, lakeside7 said:

Well shifting all tne high risk customers from IMSS to SP will ensure SP will collapse in the not so distant future 

IMSS is full of high risk clients. Mexicans who have been there for most of their life. Expats just arrived. SP is only as secure as the financing it gets.

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I "heard" that IMSS is in financial trouble because of all the pensions it needs to pay to all doctors who have been on the staff and that they may be merged into SP eventually.  Strictly uncorroborated rumor, but from a fairly reliable source.🙄

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8 minutes ago, gringal said:

I "heard" that IMSS is in financial trouble because of all the pensions it needs to pay to all doctors who have been on the staff and that they may be merged into SP eventually.  Strictly uncorroborated rumor, but from a fairly reliable source.🙄

4 year old rumor that keeps floating to the surface. It was taken care of almost 3 1/2 years ago by a large low interest federal loan. It was all IMSS pensions which are pensions for working people that their employers paid into it, not DR.s or IMSS retired employees. SP and IMSS are not merging.

 

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2 hours ago, gringal said:

Thanks for laying that rumor to rest. It has emerged only too often.

Giving it a low interest loan still suggests it is broke..or not

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46 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

Giving it a low interest loan still suggests it is broke..or not

The loan and estimated employer contributions will keep it solvent from 2014 until 2022. They have raised the yearly fee for individuals every year if an employer isn't liabel to pay into the medical and have been pressuring employers to pay worker's pension payments - fined etc. when caught.

The IMSS has gone under restructuring since about 2011. They have many new state of the art hospitals. The demograhics indicate over half of adults are under 25 years old which makes it more than likely the pension plan will be healthy if employers pay employees obligatory pensions to the IMSS which is federal law. Possibly many employers were skipping out on doing this for decades before - I don't know. 

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President-elect López Obrador announced on 29 September 2018) at a press conference in Pachuca, Hidalgo that Seguro Popular will not exist after November 30, 2018.  The day President López Obrador takes office (1 December 2018), Seguro Popular is gone.
https://regeneracion.mx/desaparecera-seguro-popular-ni-es-seguro-ni-es-popular-amlo/

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9 hours ago, More Liana said:

President-elect López Obrador announced on 29 September 2018) at a press conference in Pachuca, Hidalgo that Seguro Popular will not exist after November 30, 2018.  The day President López Obrador takes office (1 December 2018), Seguro Popular is gone.
https://regeneracion.mx/desaparecera-seguro-popular-ni-es-seguro-ni-es-popular-amlo/

 https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/adnpolitico.com/presidencia/2018/07/15/el-gobierno-de-lopez-obrador-preve-reestructurar-el-seguro-popular%3f_amp=true

The Seguro Popular is not going anywhere obviously. Read this article and you will see what really their plan is.

Google translation:

" The government of López Obrador plans to restructure the Seguro Popular

The future Secretary of Health, Jorge Alcocer, said that the changes seek to improve medical care. He also said that it is expected to raise the salary to doctors and nurses.

July 15, 2018 03:30 PM

Jorge Alcocer The future official attended Sunday a private meeting with the virtual president-elect. (Photo: Elvia Cruz)

DNApolicy

The future administration of Andrés Manuel López Obrador plans to restructure the Seguro Popular, mainly to focus the resources currently allocated to improve care and supply of medicines, said the next secretary of Health, Jorge Alcocer.

In an interview outside the house of transition of the virtual president-elect, he indicated that among the agreements that took place in the private meeting on Sunday is to fulfill the campaign commitment on raising the salaries of nurses and doctors.

Regarding area directors, he said salaries will be adjusted and warned that those who do not agree should look for other work options, since the reduction of perceptions to senior officials is contemplated in the Republican austerity plan promoted by López Obrador since your campaign

"It will also regularize the positions of doctors and nurses who are in hiring instability and (there will be) a rapprochement with the union," he said.

It may interest you:

The cabinet that AMLO profiles to govern

Changes to Seguro Popular 

Alcocer avoided specifying if the Seguro Popular will change its name, but announced that it will change its method of operation.

"It restructures and many of its attentions and budget are reimbursed to primary care, to medicines," he said.

Questioned about what will happen to the money that is in the Seguro Popular trust, he explained that the Treasury is studying it, because we also have to know what to do in the present and the future of pensions.

On another issue, he acknowledged that there are not enough resources to provide medical attention to 20 million Mexicans, so his main challenge in the next six years is to end this inequality.

The future administration, which will start on December 1, has not yet made the appointment of undersecretaries in the health sector, unlike what has happened with other secretariats such as the Interior and Culture. "

This is just the way Obrador communicates to people.

 

"Desaparecerá Seguro Popular; “ni es seguro, ni es popular”: AMLO

" There is no longer going to be Seguro Popular because it is neither medical insurance nor is it the peoples´.

 President-elect López Obrador announced on 29 September 2018) at a press conference in Pachuca, Hidalgo that Seguro Popular will not exist after November 30, 2018.  The day President López Obrador takes office (1 December 2018), Seguro Popular is gone. "

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In any event IMSS and Seguro Popular are very poor health care systems. Either aren't worth using or belonging to.

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18 minutes ago, cedros said:

In any event IMSS and Seguro Popular are very poor health care systems. Either aren't worth using or belonging to.

Try telling that to a person making $8,000 pesos per month supporting a wife and 2 children. They are very good and free. Alot depends on what you consider "very good".

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https://regeneracion.mx/desaparecera-seguro-popular-ni-es-seguro-ni-es-popular-amlo/

"Desaparecerá Seguro Popular; “ni es seguro, ni es popular”: AMLO

" There is no longer going to be Seguro Popular because it is neither medical insurance nor is it the peoples´.

 President-elect López Obrador announced on 29 September 2018) at a press conference in Pachuca, Hidalgo that Seguro Popular will not exist after November 30, 2018.  The day President López Obrador takes office (1 December 2018), Seguro Popular is gone.  "

For those who do not understand Spanish. Seguro Popular means the peoples´ medical insurance. So Obrador is saying the Seguro Popular is not medical insurance and it is not the peoples´. This doesn´t makes sense because that is exacty what it is the peoples´ medical insurance. Then he says it will not exist  on Dec. 1st. and it will be gone. Again not true. It will still exist and will not be gone. Morena´s plan is to change a few things not delet it from existance.

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1 hour ago, AlanMexicali said:

Try telling that to a person making $8,000 pesos per month supporting a wife and 2 children. They are very good and free. Alot depends on what you consider "very good".

I am wondering if they are useful health systems for foreigners and rich Mexicans not the poor of Mexico.  I am not one of the poor people. I need better health care. Maybe we have different standards.

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1 minute ago, cedros said:

I am wondering if they are useful health systems for foreigners not the poor of Mexico.  I am not one of the poor people. I need better health care. Maybe we have different standards.

So now all 59,000,000 members of the Seguro Popular and all 54,000,000 members of the IMSS are poor? That is 113,000,000 poor Mexicans out of a population of 133,000,000. I very much doubt it.

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On 10/3/2018 at 7:38 AM, AlanMexicali said:

So now all 59,000,000 members of the Seguro Popular and all 54,000,000 members of the IMSS are poor? That is 113,000,000 poor Mexicans out of a population of 133,000,000. I very much doubt it.

 

The 20,000,000 poor Obrador's future secretary of health was saying are not getting SP because the SP doesn't have the resources in the news article posted above in reality haven't even tried to join because they live outside of areas were SP is located, are indigent with no means of travel and/or communications so don' t know how to join or know what it is or don´t want to join - probably the vast majority , only speak an indigenous language, have no government credencials, etc.. . SP does not discriminate against anyone. This is federal law and studies show these 20,000,000 haven´t  joined. SP and DIF has tried to get them enrolled and DIF has a program in isolated rural areas trying hard for free to help them sign up even if they do not have any government credentials required to sign up with limited success.

http://elmanana.com.mx/noticia/144563/Sin-acceso-a-salud16-de-mexicanos-SSA.html

" Without access to health, 16% of Mexicans: SSA. [Secretario de Salud]  [21,280,00]

The Secretary of Health affirmed that some minority groups such as the indigenous population and the LGBTTTIQ [gay] community have not been included in the reality to the health services

MEXICO CITY.- Although the population lacking access to health services decreased 4.6 percentage points in three years, 16.9 percent of Mexicans still have no medical coverage, said José Narro Robles, Secretary of Health. [
Secretario de Salud]

When giving a lecture at the University of the Valley of Mexico (UVM), he noted that in 2012 25.5 percent of the population lacked access to health and, by 2015, the percentage decreased to 16.9 percent.

However, he said, there are still gaps that must be closed.

"If we are not able to close the gaps that indicate the differences between those who have and those who lack, we will not get ahead, we have to work on inclusion," he said.

The Secretary of Health affirmed that some minority groups such as the indigenous population and the LGBTTTIQ community have not been included in the reality to the health services.

"We have not resolved, only in the discourse, the issue of inclusion, we have to be honest, we are not inclusive of the LGBTTQQ community," he lamented.

"We have to open ourselves, it can not be that we have closed doors when what we need is to be inclusive, at the time of service, at the time of access, we are no longer consistent," he added.

Narro Robles said that it is necessary to combat poverty, inequality and strengthen the public health system in order to face the demographic challenges that lie ahead and chronic diseases.

"We need a strong system because we have levels of poverty and inequality that can not stand us without those public services," he said.

He pointed out that by 2050 about 32.4 million adults over 60 will require health services, which will put more pressure on the demand of the health system.

"Either we pay attention to the demographic issue, or we prepare ourselves in the matter of geriatric and gerontology services or we are going to make a mistake".

He also considered it important to combat corruption in health services with better measures of accountability, transparency and oversight.

"It hurts a lot that the public money is diverted [STOLEN] but also when the money is for health, it hurts much more, it is not valid because it is affecting the lives of people directly," he said."

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40 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

So now all 59,000,000 members of the Seguro Popular and all 54,000,000 members of the IMSS are poor? That is 113,000,000 poor Mexicans out of a population of 133,000,000. I very much doubt it.

Where did I say all who use SP are poor. I know many aren't-they are just cheap.

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16 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

 

The 20,000,000 poor Obrador was saying are not getting SP because the SP doesn't have the resources in his speach posted above in reality haven't even tried to join because they live outside of areas were SP is located or don't know how to join etc. SP is alloted resources on a calculated basis on membership numbers. If they joined the resources would become available to SP to include them also. SP does not discriminate against anyone. This is federal law and studies prove these 20,000,000 simply won't join. SP and DIF has tried to get them enrolled and DIF has a program in isolated rural areas trying hard for free to help sign them sign up even if they do not have any government credentials required to sign up with limited success.

Exactly it is not a universal system-just a hodge podge.

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27 minutes ago, cedros said:

Where did I say all who use SP are poor. I know many aren't-they are just cheap.

I think you are not in touch with the reality of some who are neither poor nor cheap. Try this one: a senior over 70 who has pre-existing conditions making him/her ineligible for private health insurance and for IMSS as well.  Said senior pays for his/her own medical care out of pocket, including hospitalization, but carries SP only as a backup in the event of a medical condition such as cancer...which can drain all the family's financial resources available before death occurs.  This would impoverish the surviving spouse, if any.  I know people in exactly that situation.

Add this reality:  The one solution other than medical care for terminal cancer; assisted suicide, is not only not available in Mexico, but actual suicide has interesting legal results here:   the person cannot be cremated but must be buried.  This results in having to use the services of a funeral home, buying a plot and continual care of it. How do I know this?  It happened to a friend of mine very recently.  Who knew?

IMHO, this is one of those situations where I think one needs to consider "walking a mile in the other's moccasins" before judging.

 

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2 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

https://regeneracion.mx/desaparecera-seguro-popular-ni-es-seguro-ni-es-popular-amlo/

"Desaparecerá Seguro Popular; “ni es seguro, ni es popular”: AMLO

" There is no longer going to be Seguro Popular because it is neither medical insurance nor is it the peoples´.

 President-elect López Obrador announced on 29 September 2018) at a press conference in Pachuca, Hidalgo that Seguro Popular will not exist after November 30, 2018.  The day President López Obrador takes office (1 December 2018), Seguro Popular is gone.  "

For those who do not understand Spanish. Seguro Popular means the peoples´ medical insurance. So Obrador is saying the Seguro Popular is not medical insurance and it is not the peoples´. This doesn´t makes sense because that is exacty what it is the peoples´ medical insurance. Then he says it will not exist  on Dec. 1st. and it will be gone. Again not true. It will still exist and will not be gone. Morena´s plan is to change a few things not delet it from existance.

Alan, that's the SAME INFORMATION (different news source) that I linked to in my post last night.  You pooh-poohed it, said Seguro Popular couldn't possibly be discontinued, and then posted a link to an article from this past July.  I find your attitude difficult to take and frankly I'm offended.  Don't call people out unless you know they're truly wrong.  Did you even bother to open the link I posted?  I doubt it.

I rarely post something here unless I know what I'm talking about.  I watched our president-elect on Sept 29, heard him give the speech, and looked up the link to post it here.  

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What I gather from the speech is that there will be some kind of medical care available, but with changes from the way SP is currently operating.  Thank you for your clarification and references, More Liana.  Google Translate did a pretty good job on the Spanish version.

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5 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

Try telling that to a person making $8,000 pesos per month supporting a wife and 2 children. They are very good and free. Alot depends on what you consider "very good".

Those people have no choice.

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2 hours ago, cedros said:

Those people have no choice.

Many other people have no choice.  Some are excluded from mainstream health insurance because of age; some by pre-existing conditions.  Plus, there are limits to one's wealth and ability to pay.

I have heard a point of view that seems extreme: if one can't pay, he/she should look for charity or just be sick/die.  Fortunately, the Mexican constitution says otherwise.🙂

There will be some form of medical care available, according to AMLO.  The question is: will it be available to expats who are not Citizens?

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