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On 7/3/2016 at 11:13 AM, virgogirl said:

Thank you for all the information and opinions here. I was hoping to continue working NOB until 66 but the short of it, well, it's not looking good, and I may pull my Social Security at 62 now. It is frighteningly low. Having heard that there are some very cheap rentals yet available is giving me hope. When I lived in Ajijic last time there I paid 300 mo. downtown. Noisy, but I adjusted. I was on the busline which was good for my saturday commute to the city for long day teaching.

My question is this Joco vs. Chapala........When and if I return, I would choose one of these two extremes. Would like to hear opinions about why you love these two communities. They alternative is to stay in the states and become a welfare elder on public everything. 

 Maybe I could start my own thread, but I generally do want to know about cost of living as Beverly OP does, with focus on these two towns, so hope it is OK to post this here.

Thank you

 

 

Why would you consider Chapala and Jocotepec extremes? The real extreme is Ajijic. A few of my friends and I never bother going to "the village" from Chapala[the real center of here] except  for very infrequent trips to the odd restaurant. By the way my friend mr. P's street has been made into a Calle Magico. They even repainted his house for him free among most others in the neighbourhood.I am here now having a pop with him and just saw the mural and partially painted stairs with a design on them. Isn't there somebody in Ajijic that supposedly can accomplish the sort of thing that was done on mr. P's street.?

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For me Chapala and Joco are extremes for this reason.

Joco: I would probably be thinking more about going native on my little amount of money and throwing in the towel on working. I would have the feeling of really retiring, maybe do a little housesitting.

Chapala: I would be trying to jump on to teaching jobs in the city part-time, taking the bus into Centro. I would be more on the go. Maybe even transit back to the city if all fell into place so I could work a lot.

'm sure once I got there, it would all fall into place. There's a beauty in having some familiarity with all of it.

 

 

 

 

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Many people called Jocotepec Joco, very common. I tried Ajijic. It is not for me. In any case, I don't really need anyone telling me where to go when I'm feeling things out......

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Some folks might think we are spending too much living here, but compared to the same lifestyle in Atlanta, where we came from, it is a huge difference. We live on my Georgia State pension and my social security, which are each around $2,300 per month. Sometimes we spend it all, depending on travel and shopping stuff, sometimes not. We have a beautiful, five year old home in Brisas de Chapala, with 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, a gorgeous view of mountains and lake, pool two car indoor garage and ceiling fans in every room....$800 per month. We can get to Sorianna in Chapala in 8 minutes and to downtown Ajijic in 15. The tranquility in Brisas is marvelous. No cohetes or dogs running loose...just a few cows and burros wandering by now and then. We have a guard gate.  I belong to Atlas country club, which is a beautiful club and runs about $275 per month for unlimited golf M-F with a cart. I play about 10 times a month and most rounds take 31/2- 4 hours....nothing even close pricewise near Atlanta. We have two cars and eat out about 3-4 times per week. We belong to Seguro Popular and have five pets. We dine in Chapala quite often and sometimes in Ajijic. Alfredo's, El Giordano and Litratua? are all very good restaurants in Chapala and we can have wine, beer, salads entres and spend $25-30.

A similar house on a lake near Atlanta would rent for $2,000 a month, utilities would be double at least, meals 2-3 times more at least and the weather is not even comparable, not to mention traffic and crime. We do everything here we could do in Georgia, but enjoy it much more and spend much less.

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9 hours ago, elevator said:

Some folks might think we are spending too much living here, but compared to the same lifestyle in Atlanta, where we came from, it is a huge difference. We live on my Georgia State pension and my social security, which are each around $2,300 per month. Sometimes we spend it all, depending on travel and shopping stuff, sometimes not. We have a beautiful, five year old home in Brisas de Chapala, with 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, a gorgeous view of mountains and lake, pool two car indoor garage and ceiling fans in every room....$800 per month. We can get to Sorianna in Chapala in 8 minutes and to downtown Ajijic in 15. The tranquility in Brisas is marvelous. No cohetes or dogs running loose...just a few cows and burros wandering by now and then. We have a guard gate.  I belong to Atlas country club, which is a beautiful club and runs about $275 per month for unlimited golf M-F with a cart. I play about 10 times a month and most rounds take 31/2- 4 hours....nothing even close pricewise near Atlanta. We have two cars and eat out about 3-4 times per week. We belong to Seguro Popular and have five pets. We dine in Chapala quite often and sometimes in Ajijic. Alfredo's, El Giordano and Litratua? are all very good restaurants in Chapala and we can have wine, beer, salads entres and spend $25-30.

A similar house on a lake near Atlanta would rent for $2,000 a month, utilities would be double at least, meals 2-3 times more at least and the weather is not even comparable, not to mention traffic and crime. We do everything here we could do in Georgia, but enjoy it much more and spend much less.

Elevator, just curious, but where is the Litratua restaurant in Chapala and what kind of food do they serve?

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On 7/11/2016 at 10:37 AM, elevator said:

Some folks might think we are spending too much living here, but compared to the same lifestyle in Atlanta, where we came from, it is a huge difference. We live on my Georgia State pension and my social security, which are each around $2,300 per month. Sometimes we spend it all, depending on travel and shopping stuff, sometimes not. We have a beautiful, five year old home in Brisas de Chapala, with 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, a gorgeous view of mountains and lake, pool two car indoor garage and ceiling fans in every room....$800 per month. We can get to Sorianna in Chapala in 8 minutes and to downtown Ajijic in 15. The tranquility in Brisas is marvelous. No cohetes or dogs running loose...just a few cows and burros wandering by now and then. We have a guard gate.  I belong to Atlas country club, which is a beautiful club and runs about $275 per month for unlimited golf M-F with a cart. I play about 10 times a month and most rounds take 31/2- 4 hours....nothing even close pricewise near Atlanta. We have two cars and eat out about 3-4 times per week. We belong to Seguro Popular and have five pets. We dine in Chapala quite often and sometimes in Ajijic. Alfredo's, El Giordano and Litratua? are all very good restaurants in Chapala and we can have wine, beer, salads entres and spend $25-30.

A similar house on a lake near Atlanta would rent for $2,000 a month, utilities would be double at least, meals 2-3 times more at least and the weather is not even comparable, not to mention traffic and crime. We do everything here we could do in Georgia, but enjoy it much more and spend much less.

So, $4600US a month to live on, 3 bed/3 bath house with pool, eat out 3-4 times a week, 2 cars, and belong to a country club. I´d say Mexicans would not be out-of-line resenting people like this sucking off Seguro Popular.

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Mudgirl , I just had to have a laugh, sure hope they do not get sick in a place like Chiapas and have to go to the SS..where reality hits yo between the eyes and SS is no plave to be aroud unless you are very poor. and speak Tzotzil ot Tzeltal..and buy your own medecine because the hospital is out or put you out the next day after surgery because there are no beds... then you cango back to your fancy house..

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It's tempting to rag on Elevator's level of living high while using Seguro Popular, but there may a good reason for it:  over 70, pre-existing conditon; etc.can force people to use the national health care system or pay such outrageous costs for insurance that it boggles the mind.  Of course, if they're just cheap, elevated eyebrows may be in order and as bmh says..........they better hope they aren't stuck getting sick in the boonies with that policy.:rolleyes:

 

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13 minutes ago, gringal said:

It's tempting to rag on Elevator's level of living high while using Seguro Popular, but there may a good reason for it:  over 70, pre-existing conditon; etc.can force people to use the national health care system or pay such outrageous costs for insurance that it boggles the mind.  Of course, if they're just cheap, elevated eyebrows may be in order and as bmh says..........they better hope they aren't stuck getting sick in the boonies with that policy.:rolleyes:

 

Some of us with pre-existing conditions made sure we had enough funds to pay cash for medical and only have SP in case of an accident on the road for example. I am fortunate that I have only had to see a GP and Dentist and have nominal expenditures for pharma. my friend mr P and his wife on the other hand have had way more expenses and as I have, they also have a Medical cash fund. So far it has cost them less than insurance coverage would have even with no pre-existing and therefore we can buy more tequila and cerveza to keep the doctor away.

 

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I have been to the Seguro Popular clinics in CHiapas picking up or taking indigenous friends and it is pretty scary down there...Not every place is the same and Chiapas being the poores state in the union is probably way up on the list of places not to be sick ..better the cinic there than nothing but believe me it is scary.

They release people the day after surgery for lack of beds..I have picked up people who had to walk out of there after surgery ,,I felt just terrible, I remember what good US roads felt like 4 or 5 days after surgery and I can imagine what topes and batches must fel like in a car with terrible suspension one day afte surgery.

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1 hour ago, ned small said:

Some of us with pre-existing conditions made sure we had enough funds to pay cash for medical and only have SP in case of an accident on the road for example. I am fortunate that I have only had to see a GP and Dentist and have nominal expenditures for pharma. my friend mr P and his wife on the other hand have had way more expenses and as I have, they also have a Medical cash fund. So far it has cost them less than insurance coverage would have even with no pre-existing and therefore we can buy more tequila and cerveza to keep the doctor away.

 

Yes, I am well aware of the high cost of private medical insurance here and why people would choose to have a medical fund rather than pay insurance premiums. However, the "so far" is the cruncher- regular medical care here is inexpensive to pay out of your pocket. But what happens if you have a medical crisis and the hospital bill comes to $100,000? My original comment re elevator´s lifestyle choices was that they choose to use a service which is intended for poor folks in favor of living VERY comfortably.

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44 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

Yes, I am well aware of the high cost of private medical insurance here and why people would choose to have a medical fund rather than pay insurance premiums. However, the "so far" is the cruncher- regular medical care here is inexpensive to pay out of your pocket. But what happens if you have a medical crisis and the hospital bill comes to $100,000? My original comment re elevator´s lifestyle choices was that they choose to use a service which is intended for poor folks in favor of living VERY comfortably.

Mr P and his wife have had more than just "regular" medical care.The highest "single" cost for one incident being $23,000 cdn. he tells me they are back to the max of their fund again and about to start adding to it thanks to the low costs of just about everything around here.

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Just a couple of notes:

1 - Don't assume your CFE bill is correct. Try turning off everything in the house, and then looking at the meter. If the meter is chugging around rapidly, or worse, advancing in leaps, you have a defective meter, which CFE will replace upon your reporting it to them in person, altho they won't refund previous overcharges.

2 - I found I like the comfort of renting in a gated (or at least privately patrolled) community. And do secure the perimeter as well as the doors. You can sleep better at night that way IMO.

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The "For Those of You Considering" thread currently active on this part of the forums is really worthwhile for anyone looking at these cost of living issues. Lots of great contributions from folks who've been here for a long time and are good at crunching numbers. 

The health insurance and care issues and whether to pay into Medicare N.O.B. as well as what kind of catastrophic coverage one has down here are biggies that only get bigger with age. It's complex and so important not to just wing it. 

Another comment from the perspective of having lived here full-time for several years and now living about two-thirds of the year in Tucson and the rest down here is that the current amazing peso exchange rate vs. the U.S. dollar could easily lull someone into thinking that things here are always dirt cheap. Prices in peso terms continue to go up steadily, and when I divide what we're paying not by 18+ pesos but by a more typical median rate of 11 quite a few things here are actually more expensive than what we spend for their equivalents in Tucson (which is admittedly fairly low cost for a major U.S. city). Gringo-style food (e.g. burgers, pizza etc.) at that exchange would cost more here (and for far inferior quality). Gas is $1.85a gallon. Clothing, linens and housewares of decent quality are far less N.O.B. (and often unavailable at any price down here) and living in a place with multiple Costcos and Trader Joes gets our food budget amazingly close to what we spend at Lake Chapala (albeit the fruit and veggies always taste far better down here!). 

This isn't to say that life overall isn't - or can't be - cheaper, simpler and more joyous at Lakeside, but it is a caution that if you can't make it in a low-cost part of the U.S. where you know the ins and outs, language and have a health care safety net you might be taking a real gamble trying to live in what after all is a quite expensive resort area of Mexico. 

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When I consider the cost of living here I compare it to someplace in the U.S.where I could find comparable weather and the outdoor freedom that goes with it.  There is only one place in the U.S. that really fits--Southern California.  The cost of living there is easily 5 times higher than here.  Makes it an easy call for us.

 

 

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9 hours ago, gringal said:

It's tempting to rag on Elevator's level of living high while using Seguro Popular, but there may a good reason for it:  over 70, pre-existing conditon; etc.can force people to use the national health care system or pay such outrageous costs for insurance that it boggles the mind.  Of course, if they're just cheap, elevated eyebrows may be in order and as bmh says..........they better hope they aren't stuck getting sick in the boonies with that policy.:rolleyes:

 

Yes, I know that private health care costs when there are pre-existing conditions or applicants are over 70 are outrageous. Nor am I saying that I believe all foreigners should be exempt from being eligible for Seguro Popular or IMSS. There are truly foreigners here who have a very limited income, me among them (even so, I bit the bullet and do have private health care as I don´t like the idea of having no choice of hospitals, doctors, etc. Of course this means I can´t afford to go out for dinner more than once a month or two, only have one car, no pool and no country club membership). And if the posters want to leave their health care in the hands of Seguro Popular hospitals, well, everyone assesses the risk level they are willing to take.

But when people who are living on an amount per month that the average working Mexican might make per year avail themselves of a health care system that is meant to assist those in financial need, that just seems wrong to me. Health care systems go bankrupt because of things like this. 

A Mexican man I know had to take his severely handicapped (due to an auto accident) son on a 5 hour bus trip (he can´t afford a car), on his lap, to the Seguro Popular hospital in Guad. where he often had to wait for a few days to get in, staying in the basic accommodations provided nearby for those in his position. This went on for years (the boy passed on recently). No, its not a great system, but at least it was there for him. That it could disappear for those who really need it because some would rather pursue their cushy lifestyles rather than pay for an alternative is possible and would be a terrible shame.

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Some of you people are just unbelievable. First of all there are many, many people here who live in much larger more expensive houses and communities than we do. We just got very lucky on our house and I certainly wasn't bragging about having it. Just pointing out what is out there.

I don't believe I am sucking off of poor Mexicans. SP is available to me and I took advantage of getting it. I put quite a bit of money into the economy here so I don't see it as unethical to avail myself of something that is offered to me. I have many Mexican friends and I don't believe they resent me fort having their national healthcare. Maybe because I have learned to speak their language, always pay more than what I am asked for by gardeners and working folks and tip better than 80% of the people I know. I also help sponsor a young man's educational expenses and volunteer at a couple of charities.  I didn't see the reason to continue to pay for Best Dr's at the rate they wanted. Yes, it may be a bit of a gamble with SP as what may occur in out of the way places, but most things in life are a gamble and one plays the odds the best they can.

Maybe in Mudgirl's small minded outlook and BMH's laughing at my decision, which is an interesting perspective, I am sucking off of folks here, but I believe I am making a pretty fair trade for what I am receiving.

I was almost killed by a mis-diagnosis from " the best gastrointestinal DR. in Atlanta and I have had two good friends receive cancer treatment from SP and have nothing but good things to say. And by the way you can have your choice of hospitals...you just have to register with one, which takes a couple trips. Maybe you should have all the info before talking about something.So rag on folks it is a of little consequence.

 

And yes, I guess I misspelled the name of the restaurant. That is why I had a ? after it. If you go through Chapala like you are going out to Vista Del Lago and turn left at the end of the road out of Chapala that runs past Goodyear there is a small hotel and spa on the left. That is the one I am referring to. Letra CH?

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Mudgirl, I hear what you're saying.  However, there are pre-existing conditions which bar people from EVER getting private insurance at any price, and I recently inquired about the over 70 costs, to be informed that $10,000 U.S. with deductable was the starting point for those people.  That's even more than those with good incomes can usually handle.  For those who can get, and can afford, private insurance, it becomes a matter of ethics after that.  Personally, I have IMSS but pay all my medical costs out of pocket so far.

 

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55 minutes ago, gringal said:

Mudgirl, I hear what you're saying.  However, there are pre-existing conditions which bar people from EVER getting private insurance at any price, and I recently inquired about the over 70 costs, to be informed that $10,000 U.S. with deductable was the starting point for those people.  That's even more than those with good incomes can usually handle.  For those who can get, and can afford, private insurance, it becomes a matter of ethics after that.  Personally, I have IMSS but pay all my medical costs out of pocket so far.

 

Gringal, can you clarify the numbers a bit. Is that $10,000 annually for each person; husband and wife? What measure of deductible did you find? 

 

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1 hour ago, Lost Dog said:

Gringal, can you clarify the numbers a bit. Is that $10,000 annually for each person; husband and wife? What measure of deductible did you find? 

 

I'm quoting the numbers from a company called Protex Health Insurance.  Details in another thread.  They ran an ad in the Guad Reporter and sounded good enough, quoting rates to ages 50-69 with the best hospitals, so since they also offered coverage for people 70+, I emailed and got a quote.  70+ with 5,000 U.S. per month per person.

 

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4 hours ago, elevator said:

And yes, I guess I misspelled the name of the restaurant. That is why I had a ? after it. If you go through Chapala like you are going out to Vista Del Lago and turn left at the end of the road out of Chapala that runs past Goodyear there is a small hotel and spa on the left. That is the one I am referring to. Letra CH?

Elevator, sorry, I was not trying to call you out for misspelling the name of a restaurant, I just honestly didn't make the connection between Restaurant Litratua and Restauran Letra Ch.  Seriously, I thought you were talking about a new cool restaurant here in Chapala that I had heard about yet.  I live here in Chapala and when someone names a restaurant I haven´t tried yet, I am all about going and checking it out!

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13 hours ago, gringal said:

Mudgirl, I hear what you're saying.  However, there are pre-existing conditions which bar people from EVER getting private insurance at any price, and I recently inquired about the over 70 costs, to be informed that $10,000 U.S. with deductable was the starting point for those people.  That's even more than those with good incomes can usually handle.  For those who can get, and can afford, private insurance, it becomes a matter of ethics after that.  Personally, I have IMSS but pay all my medical costs out of pocket so far.

 

Can anyone put the $10,000 USD annual premium into perspective against actual costs (in pesos) for recent 'big' surgeries you have experienced here and paid for out of pocket, without any insurance coverage?  I've googled estimates for this, and mostly I get "medical tourism" sites that give very broad estimates for surgeries (many of them cosmetic surgeries, or bariatric or other elective surgeries) in Mexico, but nothing specific to Guadalajara.  

Also...Gringal, was the $10K annual premium per 70+ year old person, or per couple??

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