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Regarding Joco...I find that Mainecoons knows very little about Joco or it's social events or costs at the various markets or farm to street sales....if you like I will share my USA phone number with you and I can call you anywhere for no cost,with magicjack, and will share whatever you want to know. We have lived here for 12 years and know most of the folks in government as well as inside deals on rentals as our neighbor is a real estate agent to locals and not ex-pats. Roca Azul, a very close development to Joco and is loaded with Canadians and Americans.There is a coffee house in our plaza that has have many ex-pats there every morning. Most people will speak passable english and some can speak as well as a US native as most have worked in our berry industry and been to California for extended stays.

I drive to Ajijic several times a week and seldom need more than 45 minutes to get there....17KLM is not a two day distance.

 

Fred Habacht

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3 hours ago, barbara habacht said:

Regarding Joco...I find that Mainecoons knows very little about Joco or it's social events or costs at the various markets or farm to street sales....if you like I will share my USA phone number with you and I can call you anywhere for no cost,with magicjack, and will share whatever you want to know. We have lived here for 12 years and know most of the folks in government as well as inside deals on rentals as our neighbor is a real estate agent to locals and not ex-pats. Roca Azul, a very close development to Joco and is loaded with Canadians and Americans.There is a coffee house in our plaza that has have many ex-pats there every morning. Most people will speak passable english and some can speak as well as a US native as most have worked in our berry industry and been to California for extended stays.

I drive to Ajijic several times a week and seldom need more than 45 minutes to get there....17KLM is not a two day distance.

 

Fred Habacht

Do you live in Roca Azul or another location in Joco?  I'm interesting in learning about life there as we have not settled on a long term location.  How does the availability of medical doctors compare, proximity and quality wise? I realize this is just a judgement call based on personal experience or hearsay.

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4 hours ago, barbara habacht said:

Regarding Joco...I find that Mainecoons knows very little about Joco or it's social events or costs at the various markets or farm to street sales....if you like I will share my USA phone number with you and I can call you anywhere for no cost,with magicjack, and will share whatever you want to know. We have lived here for 12 years and know most of the folks in government as well as inside deals on rentals as our neighbor is a real estate agent to locals and not ex-pats. Roca Azul, a very close development to Joco and is loaded with Canadians and Americans.There is a coffee house in our plaza that has have many ex-pats there every morning. Most people will speak passable english and some can speak as well as a US native as most have worked in our berry industry and been to California for extended stays.

I drive to Ajijic several times a week and seldom need more than 45 minutes to get there....17KLM is not a two day distance.

 

Fred Habacht

Uh Fred, I didn't comment on most of that.  Roca Azul isn't loaded with anyone.  It is a very small development.  Markets?  Where did I post about that?

How come you were trying so hard to move out of Joco eastward not that long ago?  As I recall your big complaint is that you were pretty much out there by yourselves.

Try reading what I posted and not adding to it.  It is called "reading comprehension."

:)

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Interestingly we enjoy eating at the Las Caretais? restaurant.....my point being the prices for most of their meat dishes are in line with Ajijic restaurants prices..A Pacifico beer is 20 pesos and a house wine 55 pesos ..we enjoy the ambience and the food..

The smaller restaurants on the square I would suggest offer no bargain prices for a bowl of Birra .....so not sure where other cost savings (housing etc)  would be living in Chapala vis Joco

Getting to the airport from Chapala is a no brainier and certainly faster than having to drive from Joco and all those challenging Topes

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Great thread with lots of insightful and helpful comments. 

We spent 3+ years full-time at Lakeside while always hoping to be able to be part-timers and as early retirees ACA/Obamacare, flawed as it is, has allowed us to do so the past couple of years. Our U.S. base has been small-town Colorado (Cañon City) for two years and for various reasons we've recently relocated to Tucson and are doing the sunbird/sweatbird thing at Lakeside for 3-4 months in the summer. 

Having had to live on a Social Security-like income for years (and still being years away from actual SS) in both places I'd say that it's far easier overall to live on such a budget here at Lakeside, provided you're willing to make the necessary lifestyle adjustments. These include renting a place with good solar gain and ventilation in an area where you can walk to what you do everyday (and for most newbies that means somewhere between Western San Antonio and West Ajijic), foregoing a car, learning enough Spanish to comfortably shop at the local tiendas and fruiterias rather than Super Lake, eating local (Mexican) food far more often than gringo stuff and learning the ropes of the health care system. 

As others have mentioned, gas and (especially) electricity are far more expensive on a per-unit cost basis but given the climate actual bills are a fraction of N.O.B. Fruits and veggies of a quality not available consistently anywhere N.O.B. are a third or less of U.S. costs - a huge savings but you'll surely miss the taste of ripe mangos, carrots that actually taste like carrots and $2 a quart raspberries if you ever move back North! So....no car nor need for one, cheaper, better (but much more limited) food, affordable dining out (simply nonexistent NOB), no property taxes, utility costs at maybe a quarter of a cheap place in the U.S. On the negative side, rental costs are no bargain, internet speeds are some of the worst in the Americas, and trips back N.O.B. can easily swallow the cost savings from living here - not only because of airfare but because it may be very difficult to resist some serious splurging on the various consumer goods you can get NOB that are either unobtainable or costly here. That lack of availability is a big part of what saves you money living down here, but don't discount the effects of pent-up demand for things like durable clothes that fit, treats from Amazon.com, Asian food, etc. 

The other thing to think about long and hard is health care and insurance, both here and N.O.B. As others have alluded to private insurance premiums have been increasing very rapidly down here. It's a small pool of folks that can even think about affording such coverage and they are mostly older so you can begin to see why. Self-insurance is an option but only if you have a large enough nest egg that you don't need to move to Mexico for its costs, so that's a Catch 22. Routine care here is a fraction of U.S. costs and can be excellent once you know the ropes, but you have to have a plan for something serious happening. Seguro Popular or IMS is not that plan unless you are fluent in Spanish and know from experience not just theory that you can deal with third-world hospital and clinic realities and resentment at your using services intended for Mexico's poor on the part of the staff you'll be interacting with. 

In the U.S. our low taxable income plus the advent of Obamacare has meant that we've either qualified for Medicaid at no cost (there's no means testing for under 65 adults under ACA) or can get huge subsidies for a Bronze or Silver plan, translating into less than $100 a month in premiums for the two of us and out-of-pocket maximums around 5K per year. Our home base in AZ is a super-comfy 1200 sq. ft. mobile home in a 55+ park with year-round pool, gym, hiking trails just out the door and many other amenities for which we have 15K tied up in the mobile, monthly space rent of ~$500, $70 a year in taxes and utility costs on par with a rental here at Lakeside. We were paying even less in Colorado so living on ~2K a month CAN be done both N.O.B. and here. Don't ignore that as a U.S. citizen there IS a medical safety net for you up north (screwed up and about to implode as the system is!) and nothing here. Conversely though we get all of our routine dental and medical stuff done down here, not only due to cost but because the level of care and absence of red tape makes the experience so superior, and if and when either of us ever needed assisted living or the like we'd be back at Lakeside for the duration in a heartbeat, given the horrors of the nursing home system NOB for anyone who isn't rich. 

Last and probably most important, you really need to spend a year down here living the life and immersing yourself in the expat community to get a sense of just how culturally rich, intellectually stimulating and rewardingly social your life can be down here vs. your U.S. options. The part of Lakeside life that I think is most amazing is the ease of meeting new people, how alive and curious about the world and committed to making a positive difference in it so many retirees here are, vs. the often isolated, "cocooned" lifestyles up North. In the end it's not costs but community and qualify of life that ought to be decisive and that, more than the weather or affordability, is a huge part of the real magic of Lakeside. 

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Well put Kevin K..We have traveled back and forth for 27 years due to the weather differences (hot & humid) in the summer here in Fla. versus Ajijic/Chapala. We also spend a month or so over Dec., Jan..Have owned multiple homes in Ajijic and now Chapala. We had very little interest in Chapala until we bought and moved there 3+ years ago..It is in our opinion much more interesting and entertaining from the Mexican stand-point. Ajijic has a better selection of restaurants but Chapala has several that are good...We especially enjoy the Malecon and the closeness of Guad. and especially do not miss the weekend traffic in Ajijic...better streets for walking everywhere and a great family atmosphere along the Malecon where we live..all in all we have enjoyed our bi-coastal lives. It is significantly less expensive living in Mexico than about anywhere in the States...We enjoy the atmosphere of the different cultures and the many friends we have made over the years. We travel extensively and have considered other places and countries but upon closer inspection the Ajijic/Chapala area comes out on top..

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Another excellent post, Kevin! Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective with us. It is especially valuable for those considering moving down here but also a great reminder of why so many of us are here. 

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Those were excellent postings and we would love to be able to commute between Tucson and Chapala; or to have never left. However, the elevation at Chapala prohibits that, and the free oxygen service by the Tucson VA dictate that I stay where I am; bored stiff in the damned “cocooned lifestyle“.

Oh, to be back home in Chapala!

Pay attention, newbies. Make the move while you can.

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Good post Kevin - for me this part of your post, shown below,  sums up life here - thanks for putting it in words:

_______________________

Last and probably most important, you really need to spend a year down here living the life and immersing yourself in the expat community to get a sense of just how rich and stimulating and social your life can be down here vs. your U.S. options. The part of Lakeside life that I think is most amazing is the ease of meeting new people, how alive and curious about the world and committed to making a positive difference in it so many retirees here are, vs. the often isolated, "cocooned" lifestyles up North. In the end it's not costs but community and qualify of life that ought to be decisive and that, more than the weather or costs, is a huge part of the real magic of Lakeside. 

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I really liked the posts. I'm lucky enough to have made a few wise investments to be able to travel and come and go as I please. I make enough to get by. I chose Ajijic  quite by accident but that's an entirely different thread. However. If I may interject, I have found the generation living in the lakeside area to be young and alive with always a million projects and counting. My mother came for a visit and noticed the same. She spoke with everybody and anybody she could (a little embarrassing for me). I told her most people here are retired. But are finally living their lives and doing what if anything they want. Without big brother looking over their shoulders. People that I have had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with in the lakeside area are thriving. Not the proverbial traditional retired community. It's a really fun thing to see. My mother thought so too so now she's decided to look into moving down here as well. I'm thinking maybe I oversold lakeside and should start complaining more. At least until I move then she can have lakeside to herself ;)

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Going from the sublime to the ridiculous;

 This morning after our shopping trip to the Chapala Market, my spouse got into a conversation with an American chap while in Soriana.

Apparently this single man had  been paying  $700 us dollars to rent a small house in LaFloresta.  The house was more than he needed, and he's presently renting a one bedroom apartment in Chapala.  As you'd expect, this place is more modest, but in keeping with his needs, and also his budget....$75U.S month. Yes,you read that right!

He pays utilities, Internet etc., and is very satisfied with the arrangement. Just goes to show that if one looks hard enough there's something for every budget .

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I concur with just about everything stated above. 

Where you live will be a major factor. How often and when you eat out is a factor. As stated above, you need a cushion for emergencies (health care deductibles and fast travel back home.) Our biggest expense is private insurance and the $$ we set aside to cover the deductible for each of us.

Doctor visits here are low cost and Rx costs are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the US. Dental and surgical costs are lower, too. Not dirt cheap, but lower. We have found the care to be excellent.

We live in a frac in San Antonio, about a kilometer from the WalMart . I find, after living in big cities in Asia, and before that out in the VA countryside, that it is quieter than I expected. Occasionally a siren or a neighborhood party, but usually not much else going on. 

There is a fracc fee, but it is affordable. We own, and taxes are low. Have solar, so power is free. On demand water heaters reduce the gas bill considerably. These were upfront purchases that added to the initial cost, but are definitely paying off.

We have chosen not to have a car, and use public transportation . Occasionally we go to CostCo with a friend who has a van but no card. Sometimes we ride with friends to dinner in the evening. I walk or bus to Wal Mart and take a taxi back home, but that trunk is loaded to the max !

We dont eat out a lot or do much drinking, and do not smoke, so those expenses are low for us . I cook from scratch because I like to do it that way.

I buy a few items on a regular basis from Costco and those are delivered to my home, I do my major shopping at WalMart for convenience, but usually all fruits and veggies and meat come from the Chapala mercado or Sunday San Antonio tianguis. I go to SuperLake only 1-2x a month, usually in search of some exotic ingredient. On a splurge, I sometimes go to Tony's for meat when I am at SuperLake.

We have Shaw TV, no cell phones, a land line phone package with internet and no streaming or Netflix or anything like that. No gardener, but a now a cleaning lady 4 hours a week.

I think it is a good life, one lived as we wish. Do I miss Bed, Bath &bBeyond ? You bet ! Michaels, Jo-Ann's, Marshall's, Tuesday Morning and Williams Sonoma ? OMG, yes !!  After a few years though, we have everything we need, and only a few items left that we want. 

Ready made furniture here is more expensive than in the US. Imported goods are pricey, too. We have found a great carpenter and ironworker and they have made many things for MUCH less than we could buy them at a store.

We are able to afford 2-3 trips a year for me to visit friends in Southern California, so I get my shopping fix, and we travel, as well. (Overseas travel expenses are not considered part of our budget.) As retirees we can travel when a cheap and fun deal comes up, and I have cut travel $$ to CA by flying to Tijuana and walking across the border.

Only you will know what you will want or need, and that will only be after you stay here a while.

Rent furnished places in the different areas. If you are going to have a car, you have much more freedom of choice. Take a look at places in the high AND low season. There is a big difference.

Don't just give everything up and move down before you try it out. Come down for a month or two at a time, try it out. Learn Spanish if you can. It makes life more pleasant, much easier and you are part of the community in that way.

You can design your life here as you wish. You can be heavily involved in theatre groups, charities, churches, etc or not at all. It is up to you.

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Wide extremes of living styles. You can find a nice large house in Chapala (the Mexican area) for 2000 pesos.  If you eat what you grow, don`t drive and are healthy and`don`t use expensive health services you can live on $500 a month. Or.......you can live in a purely expat area, pay $1000-$2000 a month in rent, eat out a lot (and pay $1000 for food). Or anything in between.

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Jocotepec is absolutely the best place to live...Chapala is noisy, especially at the weekend.  Way too much traffic.  More expensive than Joco..

Ajijc...very nice for a couple of hours visit, and it is a short bus ride away for 12 pesos.

In Joco you can find a little house to rent with a garden for $350 a month.  It is on a bus route to Ajijic and to Guad.  The market and local shops have almost all you need, and then there is a little supermarket "Aurrera" which is a lower market Walmart with lower prices.  The plaza has a coffee place where expats meet, a latte is 2 pesos.  There are several really good restaurants, one a Chinese that does excellent sushi.  The roads have been redone, and the sidewalk, so difficult to walk on cobbles'

Several places to volunteer if you are so inclined, a good garden group, book exchange, a Zumba class for 20 pesos for example

Lovely park on the lake, Trees, flowers, birds, no crime, friendly people, NO you don't need to speak Spanish!

AND....we live  on $1,000 a month, and have a car, and pay rent.  The new Seguro Popula free clinic is open to all residents with a visa temporal, no sign up fees, easy to do, and the doctors are good.  We have a brand new hospital too.

I love life at the West End of the lake.  If you want any help or would like an "information tour" ....Focus on Mexico are very good but really only for the well off and they don't include jocotepec, e mail me rosfreed @ yahoo.com.  Joco has a network of friends who can help with rentals.

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Electricity is some of the most expensive in the world for a large infrastructure.  You are allowed 500Kwh for two months for around 1000P or so. 650Kwh is 1500P.  200Kwh on Casita is about 220P.  If you use more than an average of 250Kwh per month you go on the infamous DAC which creates huge bills after a year.  I have paid less for generated power on a small island than DAC here.  So that little Casita you will be fine but a big house even with new fridge, new rebuilt pumps, and completely LED bulbs I can't get below   650Kwh.  I even use small bluetooth speakers to try to lower the cost of playing music to no avail.  So big is bad power use wise here.  I am in the process of designing a solar system to get me back under the DAC limit as my one year is almost up on my new meter and service.  LP for water heating, drying clothes, and cooking is not cheap either compared to west cost US natural gas costs.  In process of changing to low pressure instant on pilotless water heaters from the big tank types as I have two water heaters as house is too big and one heater would waste too much water.  Payoffs for both of these products is very short because of high cost of product.

These two items are my biggest surprises for costs in Mexico.

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Under the heavily subsidized rate CFE charges under $500.00 pesos for consumption of 500 KWHs for 2 months not about $1,000 pesos or so if you are not in the DAC rate already. The 3 tiered subsidized rate is calculated on 3000 KWH consumption in a 12 month period. If you go over 3000 KWHs you are in the DAC rate until your 12 month average is 3000 KWHs or less.

 

Residents living in climatic zones where it is much hotter where air conditioning is vital to survival are allowed to consume up to 19,000 KWHs in a 12 month period before going into the DAC rate. There are 7 climatic zones and 3000 KWHs is the cool zones and most of Mexico. The other 6 zones all get more than 3000 KWHs per 12 months before going into the DAC. If you have your own transformer and maintain it you can get a 50% discount on your bill, as do many commercial buildings/businesses do in Mexico.

 

If a small house or apartment consumes  250 KWHs or less per 2 months the 3 tiered rate is even more subsidized and the bills will be under $300.00 pesos per 2 months  [under $8.00 USD per month or under $96.00 USD per year] .Many people living in small houses/apartments understand this and try to comsume less [an obsession it appears for some people I know - my father in law with an 8 bedroom 6 bath house.] and are billed very little because of these below tiered rate charges which = very cheap electricity for the majority of Mexicans.

 

"Cargos por energía consumida
 

Consumo básico $ 0.793 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo intermedio $ 0.956 por cada uno de los siguientes 65 (sesenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo excedente $ 2.802 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores."

"Charges for energy consumed
 
Consumer basic $ 0.793 for each of the first 75 (seventy five) kilowatt-hour.
$ 0956 Intermediate consumption by each of the following 65 (sixty-five) kilowatt-hours.
Consumption over/high $ 2,802 for each additional kilowatt-hour earlier. "

"DOMESTIC CONSUMPTION HIGH (DAC), 2016

Check Rates of: 2016
 
This rate will apply to all energy services intended for domestic use only. It is considered guzzling when registering an average monthly consumption exceeds the limit defined high consumption for your locality.

The average monthly consumption is determined by the moving average consumption recorded by the user in the last 12 months.

When the Average Monthly Consumption is lower than the limit set High consumption in the city, domestic tariff 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E and 1F apply; corresponding

The high consumption limit is defined in terms of domestic rate: 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E and 1F; that applies in your área." [the 7 climatic zones]

http://app.cfe.gob.mx/Aplicaciones/CCFE/Tarifas/Tarifas/Tarifas_casa.asp?Tarifa=DACAnual2003&anio=2016

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I'm not sure why some people's CFE bills are so high.  We live in a 2000 sq ft home.  We have two computers running almost all day long, every day, I use the washer and dryer at least twice a week, run the dishwasher once a week, and of course the refrigerator and ceiling fans going 24/7.  All that, and our CFE bill averages about 700 pesos every two months!

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19 hours ago, suegarn said:

I'm not sure why some people's CFE bills are so high.  We live in a 2000 sq ft home.  We have two computers running almost all day long, every day, I use the washer and dryer at least twice a week, run the dishwasher once a week, and of course the refrigerator and ceiling fans going 24/7.  All that, and our CFE bill averages about 700 pesos every two months!

Agree. We are a family of 3 and wash and dry a load of laundry almost daily. We have 2 TV's, large refrigerator, computers, all water is pumped from a cistern, etc. I think one difference is that some homes are attached to others and they lack natural light. We have skylights in almost every room, patio doors in every room and large windows meaning lights are not on until sun starts to set. Some homes require lights being on most of the day. 

Our electric bill is 300 pesos every 2 months.

Buen Fin

Sonia

 

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Many houses in Mexico are not properly wired. Mine is, I had it built and used the services of a qualified electrician.  I am a single person, do one or two loads of laundry a week, have a normal (not pressure) pump from cistern to tinako with automatic switch, other than that, fridge, lights, fans, no AC, stereo, DVD player with TV monitor (used maybe once a week). My electric bills average less than 200 pesos for 2 months.

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