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Flying out, leaving TIP car in Mexico

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The ambiguity in the handling of this creates yet another nice opportunity for mordida and for petty bureaucrats to push people around.  And expats are considered a juicy target for both which is why it is better to take the prudent approach and take the car out with you.

 

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5 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

The ambiguity in the handling of this creates yet another nice opportunity for mordida and for petty bureaucrats to push people around.  And expats are considered a juicy target for both which is why it is better to take the prudent approach and take the car out with you.

 

In Baja California in my many trips from San Diego and living there since 2006 until 2011 part time I was pulled over by police 16 times. The most often was when my then newer Maxima had no front license plate. When the car got older only for my traffic mistakes as I got new plates after a few years.  I paid mordida twice and it was my fault I got pulled over. Only once did they take me to pay the fine for running a 4 way stop. The rest I argued with them and they got tired of dealing with me and left. One time the 2 cops left very angry by spinning their tires on a gravel parking lot and spraying the front of my car with gravel. 

After moving full time to SLP and having a locally plated car not once and I drive now like the locals breaking the rules in front of police when I feel like it or need to. They drive here a certain way and for example you slam on your brakes to avoid going through a yellow/red light or pothole you might be rear ended. I was rear ended twice and almost twice more but heard the screeches and excellerated through the pot holes fast while the cars just touched my bumper. Now I swerve around potholes [and cars parked 4 or 5 feet from the curb or cars and trucks entering from a side street past the parking lane and 4 or 5 feet into a traffic lane through a stop sign and into the other lane of traffic] like everyone else and everyone in that lane swerves to avoids you hitting them. If you don´t know the game here you will eventually be rear ended or side swiped. Some cars and trucks end up part way up on the curb on the grass of divided blvds. when everyone has to swerve. Just great for their alignment. Everyone and I do this in front of police and they never do anything. We can park where ever we want and they only regulate, ticket and wheel clamp in Centro where they have parking machines you pay at and get a slip of paper to put on your dashboard 6AM  to 8PM  except Sundays [free]. You can double park, park 3 or 4 feet from curbs anywhere on narrow one way streets in Centro blocking everyone and on very wide one way streets or triple park and bottleneck the 6 lanes [2 parking lanes] down to 1 or 2 lanes with no problem. Autos repair and tire shops places can block 1/2 a traffc lane while reparing cars. Vendor carts can block a parking lane and 1/2 a traffic lane as long as they have a city permit. I have seen people eating on stools in the street at these carts and cars swerving around them at 30 MPH. Small motos [scooters]  drive between lanes to get in front at red lights and then slow down everyone when it is rush hour. I just swerve around them as do many drivers to get them out of out way. 4 people on a scooter... father and mother and baby between them and the older child standing up where your feet go is a common sight and scares me: No helmets almost on everyone here and if they have one it is usualy unstrapped. No one usually wears seat belts.

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Thank you. Very, very useful information that I have made a note of. I would have not realized if you fly out and leave the car in there could be trouble, even if you come back with the fresh FMM. Now I know if i want to keep refreshing the FMM, that I have to show up with the car to also get a new Tip. Is there a number of days you have to stay in the states before getting a new TIP and FMM?

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31 minutes ago, virgogirl said:

Thank you. Very, very useful information that I have made a note of. I would have not realized if you fly out and leave the car in there could be trouble, even if you come back with the fresh FMM. Now I know if i want to keep refreshing the FMM, that I have to show up with the car to also get a new Tip. Is there a number of days you have to stay in the states before getting a new TIP and FMM?

I do not see how you came to that conclusion.

Buen Fin

Sonia

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Say I am managing my stay by having to return to the border every 6 months to renew the FMM. It seems obvious from what I read that you cannot just fly to the border, get a new FMM, and come back expecting the TIP to continue to be good. It appears from what the people are saying that one must renew the TIP every 6 months as well which means driving the car to the border, not flying there and back for a quick renewal.

If that isn't so please impress me with the truth. It seems to make sense from the many posts. I would rather fly than drive to do a renewal but it doesn't seem like that is what you do.

 

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2 hours ago, virgogirl said:

Say I am managing my stay by having to return to the border every 6 months to renew the FMM. It seems obvious from what I read that you cannot just fly to the border, get a new FMM, and come back expecting the TIP to continue to be good. It appears from what the people are saying that one must renew the TIP every 6 months as well which means driving the car to the border, not flying there and back for a quick renewal.

If that isn't so please impress me with the truth. It seems to make sense from the many posts. I would rather fly than drive to do a renewal but it doesn't seem like that is what you do.

 

 

That is correct.  The TIP is good for 6 months.  The question being debated here if I understand it correctly is whether if one has to fly out and back during that six month period, getting a new Tourist Visa in the process is whether or not the TIP obtained at the time the first visa was obtained.  

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When you step out of Mexico, your tourist permit becomes void. Therefore, your stay in Mexico, upon which your TIP is dependent, has ended. The car becomes illegal at that moment.  It does not magically become legal again when you get a new FMM tourist permit upon re-entry. 

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1 hour ago, RVGRINGO said:

When you step out of Mexico, your tourist permit becomes void. Therefore, your stay in Mexico, upon which your TIP is dependent, has ended. The car becomes illegal at that moment.  It does not magically become legal again when you get a new FMM tourist permit upon re-entry. 

I believe that those who deal with the law and assist foreigners with various paper work have said that is not the case, RV. I would think that a person here would take the word of someone like that over someone who does not live in Mexico anymore and is not up to date on what is currently happening with immigration, no? Fear mongering has not helped anyone move forward. What you speculate ":might happen" can not be verified by anyone in the last few years. Please do not spread rumors that needlessly put fear into people because "you think it might happen".

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Please read the law, which has been quoted frequently here.  The TIP is only good for the length of your stay.  If you leave, your stay has ended.  Simple?

The grey area is when you drive out and re-enter without turning in your FMM & getting a new one.  Were you really gone?  Is the FMM tourist permit really good for multiple entries?   Those are the fuzzy areas. The first is pretty clear to me, especially when one flies out of Mexico and turns in the FMM.

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No one has stated a law that says you can not leave your vehicle in Mexico for the duration of the TIP. We have people with myths, another contradicting himself and other misinformation starting with the original post. 

A TIP is normally issued for 180 days. One can leave Mexico and return as many times as they wish using the same TIP. So show a law that says one can not leave their car with a valid TIP while they fly out. No law has been frequently let alone once.

:-)

Sonia

 

 

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“.....duracion de su estancia.“    Doesn‘t that explain it?

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5 hours ago, RVGRINGO said:
5 hours ago, RVGRINGO said:

Please read the law, which has been quoted frequently here.  The TIP is only good for the length of your stay.  If you leave, your stay has ended.  Simple?

The grey area is when you drive out and re-enter without turning in your FMM & getting a new one.  Were you really gone?  Is the FMM tourist permit really good for multiple entries?   Those are the fuzzy areas. The first is pretty clear to me, especially when one flies out of Mexico and turns in the FMM.

 

Sorry. RV, but you are not qualified to interpret the Mexican Laws and how they are applied. Your "opinion" lacks credibility. Therein lies the problem that you are creating with misinformation. People here that deal with these laws and Mexican Immigration personnel on a daily basis are telling us that you are wrong. Just let those who deal with these situations give us the real facts, interpretations, and how they are applied.

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Do it your way, then.  Good luck. 

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Virgo girl- if you are planning to live in Mexico and use tourist permits, which will entail having to leave and re-enter every 6 months, rather than applying for temporary residency (whatever your reasons for that are not my business) maybe you should consider buying a used Mex.plated car so you don´t have to try to navigate what seems to be a question to which there are many conflicting answers.

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At the current exchange rate a car costs no more here than in the U.S. and maybe less.  And you won't be hassled by the cops nearly as much.  You do have to watch out for the speed camera racket around GDL but otherwise there is much benefit to not bringing a car here.

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Life is just calmer and clearer with a jalisco plated vehicle with a real Factura.  I wish you all luck figuring this out but I don't see a clear answer. While I believe we have a good legal question here I do know if I leave and turn in my tourist visa and my car is here I am asking for trouble no?  How does the TIP get attached to the new Visa?  I am not talking about legal issue but common sense with governments and paperwork.  

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OK, if you have an RV with a 10 year permit you can certianly leave it down, so what is the difference with a 180 day? Has anyone actually contacted banjercito at

 

permisovehiculos@banjercito.com.mx and asked the question. I would but I do not want to get flagged as I intend to fly out this year while my vehicle is in Mexico

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This is a good question, perhaps Sonia can answer it.  Since they limit the Tourist Visa to 6 months but turn around and give people with Tourist Visas a 10 year TIP, it would seem that the latter wouldn't automatically expire upon the exit of a Tourist Visa holder.  You should be able to leave the RV here, unlike a car, and only renew the Tourist Visa on return.

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I followed up in this question recently and updated my web site. The response from my call answers Mainecoons' question above and all vehicles with a valid TIP brought in by tourists.

The question often comes up, if as a tourist with a foreign plated car in Mexico, may I fly out and leave the car in Mexico as long as the TIP has not expired. The answer is yes you may as per my conversation with Carlos de la Rosa, an employee of SAT. His number is 01-551-203-1000, ext. 47483. He is also the Retorno Seguro contact.

 

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6 hours ago, Sonia said:

I followed up in this question recently and updated my web site. The response from my call answers Mainecoons' question above and all vehicles with a valid TIP brought in by tourists.

The question often comes up, if as a tourist with a foreign plated car in Mexico, may I fly out and leave the car in Mexico as long as the TIP has not expired. The answer is yes you may as per my conversation with Carlos de la Rosa, an employee of SAT. His number is 01-551-203-1000, ext. 47483. He is also the Retorno Seguro contact.

 

Sonia I truly wish that this info would/could be the answer and the end of this question. But, as is usual in Mexico, it appears to be just one more case of someone getting direct information from a Mexican official only to have it later 'denounced' by another person who got 'official' information from the same government agent to the contrary.

Last year Snowyco said that he talked to different agents of INM at three border crossings and telephoned an agent of SAT in DF... all of whom said that we cannot fly out leaving our TIP vehicle in Mexico even.... if we fly back in and take the vehicle out 'on time'.

I personally just think that there is no law that gives a definitive answer to this particular situation and people just  make up an answer. And that is just Mexico.

P.S.  If all this sounds like I don't appreciate your Posting this information Sonia, I apologize. I do. It's just that faced with 'official' but contradictory information, one becomes very skeptical.... and not willing to believe either version of 'the truth'.

P.P.S.  What I do know, and it is of course just anecdotal, is that one (me) can and has done this more than once:  1) drive into Mexico obtaining  TIP and FMM,  2) fly out surrendering FMM,  3) fly back in getting another FMM,  4) drive out cancelling TIP at the border and causing no heart burn by any Agent there, plus receiving my TIP deposit back on my credit card within 3 business days. AND, I have done this recently.  This of course means nothing without a law to quote. Maybe I just have been lucky or maybe it's the law that we don't know about (or can't produce a copy thereof).

 

 

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If one can leave with a 10 year TIP then what is the difference in leaving without your vehicle which has  a 180 day TIP?

Pls do not quote Steve to me geesh that is that last person I would believe except for what he copies from my web site. And when he says he talked to some one where are their names and contact info as I post? 

Anyone who has the question can call Carlos and ask the law and rationale vs debating at length myths and misinformation.  

 

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Doesn‘t the actual law, or rule, state that the Importada Temporal is valid as long as the importer‘s INM document is valid?  If that is the case, the FMM tourist permit is invalid the moment that one steps outside of Mexico.   I think the difference is between “can“ and “may“ and the “enforcement“ uncertainties.

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That is why, RV, people need to trust the advice of Sonia and Spencer when these questions are asked. Other "so called experts" just continue to create panic and confusion for "their personal enjoyment"? Shame on them, no?

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This is an old thread so my $.02 may not be relevant, plus I'm a complete newbie and I have no idea of the actual rules and regulations. But just to add another element, I think I have evidence to support the contention that the TIP and FMM are independent of each other. I complete all my paperwork online and I obtained my TIP well in advance of even applying for my FMM. You can apply for your TIP 60 days in adance, but it's only 30 days for your FMM. My TIP was processed and sent out almost a month before I applied for my FMM. If the TIP is dependant on a valid FMM wouldn't the FMM be part of the application process?

Just a thought.

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Just because one an GET a TIP ‘early’ doesn’t mean that one can actually enter Mexico without having a Tourist or RT visa standing. If you recall, when you got your TIP online you first were redirected to an immigration site where you made some ‘guarantees’ about your visa status.

Also although you can GET an online TIP up to 60 days in advance, you were asked with your online TIP application for the ‘date’ you intended to cross. This question, IMO, is to align the 180 day stay of your TIP and your FMM. 

Also, no one ever said that the two documents were ‘joined at the hip’ as there are other things that can ‘tie’ the two together such as your US Passport #. 

So, IMO, your revelation may just be.....irrelevant. :D

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