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Aggressive people outside of Superlake and iShop.


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Truth is, if Pancho and Paz wanted to put an end to this nuisance, they would.  That tells me they aren't terribly concerned about their customers which is OK because we are two former customers who aren't concerned about patronizing those businesses.  Too many other places now to shop without the hassle.

Both of these guys have vandalized cars and acted towards people in a threatening manner.  That is a fact that is well known around here and pretending it is not says more about the deniers than it does about those two thugs.  

Denying this is enabling it.  Ignoring this or kissing up to it is enabling it.

There is only once correct response to this and it should be coming from the businesses over there.  Since it is not, just avoid the place and while you are at it make sure the businesses know why you are doing so.  Really, life is very good here without Superlake and Paz.

 

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I like your frankness here, Mainecoons, and calling it like it is. However another element might be that Pancho doesn't want to be the villain by getting rid of these problem people. He knows he's got a solid-enough customer base and always will.

I've found a sometimes substitute for Paz by driving out to Vinos America for our wine supply and they're invariably cheaper and friendlier than Paz.  I also use the Costco delivery service to buy in bulk many of the things I used to get at SuperLake. It's too bad for me as I rather like the convenience of SuperLake and I find the car-wash guys to be good guys, all except the one who constantly complains about "no business" and sometimes comes up with other ways I might help him, like contributing to someone's funeral expenses. I avoid him.

Lexy

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23 hours ago, johanson said:

Never do I have a problem. I park were I want, not where they point and say hello to them in Street Spanish should they approach me. Those of you who look and act nervous, seem to be the ones they approach.

Show them respect when you say no, and after a while they will learn not to bother you.

I agree with Pete.  When I was a newbie here Carlos (Antonio) washed my car without my asking in front of the LCS and then tried to extort $200 from me.  The berry seller down at the corner shouted down the street, "He's loco, give him $30," which I did and then I told him in polite Spanish that I only wanted it washed when I said so in the future, leaving the option open for him to behave correctly and possibly get a wash request from me.  At the time I knew that the guys at Walmart charged $40.  Since then I let him polish the black marks off my bumper once, ones that I knew I made hitting my garage doors backing out with a car parked across from my doors on a narrow street.  Now he asks me "Polish?" in front of iShop almost every time I park there.  He pronounces it like "Polish," a person from Poland, so I've now engaged him with English practice, pointing out that it's pronounced 'paahlish" when you mean shining a car.  I tell him he'll impress all the anglophones if he (eventually) can get this distinction correct.  He's never tried to scratch my car now that we have a convivial relationship and something to chat about.

The windshield wiper guy is dealt with the same way.  He twisted one of my wipers once as I had just checked them the day before when I made a car appointment in Guad at the dealer for an oil change under warranty, so I caught him.  The wipers were not wiping well from sun damage and I was going to change them anyway, but not with him after reading about his poor quality products.  So I thanked him profusely for pointing out my "broken wiper" and that the dealer would give me free ones tomorrow because they'd failed so quickly on a "new car."  From that point on I've made it a point to always greet him first when he approaches me and I ask about his health and how his family is.  He now tells me some details and how tough it is to sell his wipers.  I give him advice like, "the rainy season is coming and you'll earn much better then...be sure to buy some good quality wipers that people will appreciate, etc." and he hasn't touched my car in 4 years.

I know this won't work for those who can't or won't learn some Spanish, although both of these guys know rudimentary English and the same goal could also be accomplished with using simple sentence construction with them.  Making the effort to be polite rather than making a grimace and scurrying away in fearful silence would go a long way with simply accepting them as part of the landscape here in your adopted country.  They aren't going to attack you, rob you, or snatch your purse.  I'll bet if some stranger tried to do that and they were there, they'd give chase and help you out.  I know they would help me because I remain on a friendly basis with them and acknowledge that they have a right to earn money with the limited means that they have the ability to employ.

I certainly wouldn't let them intimidate me into not picking up my mail or shopping at Super Lake or having to park somewhere else.

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Pfffttt. Respect is a two way street. This post (and others about a certain aggressive gringo male who has since passed on) divides the populace into male and female. It does not divide us into rude and friendly. I started out friendly with both of these characters. Shall we say that the situation has devolved over the course of five years.

They are both aggressive pushy males who have turned me into an aggressive push back female. No gracias. Quantos veces necesito decirlo? No quiero tu negocio y nunca toca mi coche...NUNCA!

I'll shop where I want to and when I want to and those dips aren't going to stop me.

 

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I also never have a problem with them. When someone tries to sell me something I tell them, "no thank you."I already have some and I give them a smile and no problem. When I see Antonio I say hello with a smile and sometimes give him 10 pesos  to watch my car and all is well. One time when trying to help a street dog in Chapala, a group of kids surrounded  me because they thought  that I was going to have it killed. Antonio came to my rescue and told them that I was a nice lady and would not hurt the dog . The kids then helped me catch it.

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phxfunguy: You know the guy broke your windshield wiper, but you thanked him profusely at a later time knowing what a creep he is? Your way of dealing with him works well for you: You speak Spanish to him and give him excuses why you're not buying from him. And that works well for you, but probably not for "those who can't or won't learn some Spanish."

These two guys are bad news. What has politeness got to do with it? I don't get  bothered by them either any more. But I firmly tell them I do not want their services or their products. That works, too. Even in English.

Lexy

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They both speak excellent english...,.they both show that they do not respect either ex-pats or nationals....they both are predators....they both prey on anyone that weakens.....

They both seem to respect force...condemnations or politeness does NOT really help...what you are seeing when they back down is that many others have pushed back on that day. The reason that the offensive windshield wiper guy wanders over to Pharmacia Guadalajara and then back is to let things quiet down and to pick up more crappy wiper blades at Walmart.....one day when he breaks or cuts the wiper on the wrong car or Suv....he will really back down for a long while.

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5 minutes ago, Lexy said:

phxfunguy: You know the guy broke your windshield wiper, but you thanked him profusely at a later time knowing what a creep he is? Your way of dealing with him works well for you: You speak Spanish to him and give him excuses why you're not buying from him. And that works well for you, but probably not for "those who can't or won't learn some Spanish."

These two guys are bad news. What has politeness got to do with it? I don't get  bothered by them either any more. But I firmly tell them I do not want their services or their products. That works, too. Even in English.

Lexy

Like walking with purpose in "iffy" neighborhoods, I have found that a firm,  but neither hostile nor particularly friendly "No, gracias" works for me.  As a very perceptive teenager I knew once said "everybody actually knows what everybody else is thinking", that "no" you speak must mean a fearless "no".  Haven't had any trouble yet, but I agree that the store owners know very well what's going on and just. don't. care.:ph34r:

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This whole situation is so sad in a pathetic sort of way. We should not have to even talk about this as it shouldn't be an issue. The store owners really couldn’t care much less...there will always be more foreigners,  until maybe one day there isn't. I bet a boycott would work. But that would be next to impossible to organise. 

I have also wondered if the two creeps are paying a 'fee' to work that area. 

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Just a reply to Saturn regarding if I was kidding about taking an advocate to Superlake...... There is a  post before mine, on page 3 I believe it was, where Johanson stated he would go with you to Superlake. He was offering to accompany people seems to me because he doesn't have a problem with the dudes who harass. 

BTW I totally agree with Mainecoons. That's what I did. Avoided...took business elsewhere. On the other hand, it is sad to have to. 

What I loved about this thread is the reminder of what Ajijic is like, and so continue a seek a new backdrop for my retirement in Mexico. 

This thread might be ready to R.I.P

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I think part of the problem in Ajijic is that some foreigners do see it as a backdrop for their retirement. They become frustrated and angry when the bit players don't perform their parts as expected. It just spoils everything.

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13 minutes ago, Xena said:

I think part of the problem in Ajijic is that some foreigners do see it as a backdrop for their retirement. They become frustrated and angry when the bit players don't perform their parts as expected. It just spoils everything.

I've only lived full time in Mexico for twenty years. The Superlake/Handimail/occasionally Farmacia de Guadalajara bit players are the only ones who regularly irritate the hell out of me. They simply do not know how to gracefully accept that someone does not need or want their "products". I have never experienced that kind of pushiness in other parts of Mexico. I wonder where they learned it?

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They learned it here after trying once and succeeded...I rarely shop there as we now have other options so the only place in area has worn thin.  Tired of overpaying and the parking lot and these thugs are enough to make you dislike the area! 

 

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Ferret, you are not one of the foreigners I am talking about. We all have something or someone  who irritate the hell out of us. There are some people who are annoyed and irritated by everything and everyone who they are not in direct control of. They have a very clear idea of how everything is supposed to be and complain bitterly when they are not. The phrase "backdrop of my retirement" made me think of them. (And, no, I am not saying the person who used the phrase is one of them.)

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Perhaps that was a lousy was to put it. "backdrop" Sorry..... I love Mexico, it is my favorite country and I love the people. And i love to be immersed, speak Spanish everyday. Like Ferret said, basically never encountered the problem in other parts of Mexico. So the 4 months I spent in Ajijic were kind of a shock in the sense of what is being discussed in this thread, the price gouging, and sometimes a general lack of friendliness in the tienditas of Ajijic that I wasn't experiencing in the city. I felt more comfortable in Tlaquepaque my first year, immersed in a poor Mexican barrio. It was interesting and challenging. Once I assimilated, I was simply an integral part of a Mexican neighborhood. Never harassed in any way.No one tried to exploit me just because I was American. Had simple problems like any other Mexican neighbor. Maybe I did so well like that that Ajijic seemed like America. I don't say that to put anyone down who loves it and makes it home. I would've been better off in Joco but my boss found me an apartment in downtown Ajijic. Just because I was American, and thought to have money, I was harassed for any peso they could squeeze out of me. I was just a working stiff earning enough to buy beans and tortillas. Of course, I found these guys to be a source of stress though I played it cool with them. So I now realize I wouldn't want this experience again. I'm always better of blending with the Mexicans and staying out of expat communities. That's the bottom line for me. Now it's a nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there again unless up the road apiece.

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11 minutes ago, virgogirl said:

Perhaps that was a lousy was to put it. "backdrop" Sorry..... I love Mexico, it is my favorite country and I love the people. And i love to be immersed, speak Spanish everyday. Like Ferret said, basically never encountered the problem in other parts of Mexico. So the 4 months I spent in Ajijic were kind of a shock in the sense of what is being discussed in this thread, the price gouging, and sometimes a general lack of friendliness in the tienditas of Ajijic that I wasn't experiencing in the city. I felt more comfortable in Tlaquepaque my first year, immersed in a poor Mexican barrio. It was interesting and challenging. Once I assimilated, I was simply an integral part of a Mexican neighborhood. Never harassed in any way.No one tried to exploit me just because I was American. Had simple problems like any other Mexican neighbor. Maybe I did so well like that that Ajijic seemed like America. I don't say that to put anyone down who loves it and makes it home. I would've been better off in Joco but my boss found me an apartment in downtown Ajijic. Just because I was American, and thought to have money, I was harassed for any peso they could squeeze out of me. I was just a working stiff earning enough to buy beans and tortillas. Of course, I found these guys to be a source of stress though I played it cool with them. So I now realize I wouldn't want this experience again. I'm always better of blending with the Mexicans and staying out of expat communities. That's the bottom line for me. Now it's a nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there again unless up the road apiece.

Virgogirl, you nailed it. I couldn't have said it better. Echos of my own experiences elsewhere, and feelings about here. If you haven't lived for a while elsewhere, you might think Lakeside is Mexico. It is not.

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Nicely put virgogirl. Totally agree. I travel a lot for business in mexico and worldwide. Im not a huge mexico fan to be honest but it is what it is and i am here and totally accept the good and bad here. Like all countries.

Ajijic is not typical of mexico and i just wonder wether the influx of foreginers actually put off mexicans from visiting.

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Guest bennie2

everyone has thier way of dealing w/street people. what ever works. this is no different then walking on the edge of a degenerate commerical innercity area in the US. when i rode my bike i would pass similar situations. same kind of people hanging round. sometimes i would stop to buy a bottle water, same kind of b.s. (the people are inter-changable. lock the bike & w/in a minute they are trying to take it apart). its not the country you are in but the neighborhood. why cant anyone get this fact? they congregate in commericial areas (in ajijic & elsewhere). you pay alot for some of superlake products but where is the quality of life? upscale "wholefood"s prices, double for some vegetables? it takes 2 to tango. i notice these creeps leave some of us alone but bother others? i am mean indifferent unapologetic & unapproachable. if you keep going back to a bad situations its YOUR FAULT.  MC is correct.

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