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Ideas needed for lunch with Governor


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Do not worry guys the lunch will just be a photo op that will achieve nothing important..Forget the roads, that is not good for the photo ..:improving the road for a bunch of foreigners..I do not think so..

Let´s pick something easy where at the end we will have Spencer, The governor Harry and a few old folks, cutting the ribbon in front of the transito office..now that is a good photo op ..could be going after corruption and reopening the drivers licence office..

Yes I am afraid one meeting does not achieve a whole lot of things but it can be the beginning...

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The state and municipality are superinterested in anything that affects tourism. If they bought that fixing the roads would up tourist dollars , it would be done immediately. I've been complaining about Transito , Mobilidad, traffic police, not the local police for years. Until people register direct complaints giving officers names, truck numbers, dates and times nothing will happen.

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I agree with picking infrastructure as a critical topic, a strong infrastructure is like the foundation of a your house. Build it well and you will have something that lasts forever and everyone will to come to your neighborhood to build. Cut corners and the house falls down in a few years. Worse, don't build it at all and soon everyone goes elsewhere. A well built infrastructure means creating a favorable economic climate and legal framework that allows business to thrive. The alternative is costing Mexico billions a year in additional costs (such as increased vehicle maintenance costs , increased security costs etc) and likely more in lost business opportunities. Jalisco has a lot of competition with other States and other countries for finite investment dollars.

As an example of one Mexican success story, look at what happened when Mexico changed the foreign ownership laws in Mexico and then changed the mining laws and privatized their mineral reserve system after signing Nafta between 1991 and 1993.  The re-invigorated investment climate that took off when Nafta came into effect in January 1994 was a seminal moment in Mexico's mining history where the massive ensuing foreign investment created exponential economic growth in the sector. Over the next two decades Mexico went from a nominal blip on the map as a gold producing nation, to 8th place in the world...and still growing. Today the mining and geological sciences provide some of the countries highest paying job opportunities and Mexico's mining and exploration talents are in demand. It was a Mexican crew that built the underground access train tunnel ahead of Vancouver's Olympic celebrations.  This has brought a different socio-economic energy to many parts of Mexico (including growing pains). All of a sudden people who never had more than occasional day labor and government handouts to look forward to now have regular jobs, their communities have roads, potable water, clinics and better schools. Their kids can actually plan on going to college etc

It all goes to show that political will and the right infrastructure can move mountains. Doing the same thing to encourage that kind of investment in Jalisco will have the same effect. But you need the infrastructure in place first if you want it to happen. Jalisco must be able to compete with every other state in Mexico, and every other country in the world. And that means providing the right kind of infrastructure. Jalisco can no longer afford to do things "the way they were always done" (siempre era asi), especially if we expect to compete for that finite investment dollar. Starting with a road system that makes sense...just makes sense. Don't worry, it will bring benefits to everyone, not just the expats. Anything less is just another patch job and the foundation won't last.

I realize my rants are too ambitious for one meeting, but it probably doesn't hurt to get the ideas out there and to get people thinking and talking about them. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and above all, enjoy yourself. Si se puede.

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Very good point and very well put Semalu!

I wonder how many of these big new plants that have been opening up in Mexico have not come to this state because of the poor infrastructure and corrupt government.  Mexicans have repeatedly told me that this state is known for corrupt government.  Bad infrastructure is one of the things that seems to go with bad government any where in the developed world it occurs.  Including Chapala, a very good example as well.

And it is silly to suggest that just because a few expats here point out the road problem that fixing it would somehow benefit us disproportionately.  We aren't even a blip on the state radar screen in this regard.  Who benefits are Mexican people and workers who can move stuff without having their vehicles and loads pounded to death by atrocious roads.  That should be obvious.

So far I've ridden a lot of roads in Colima, Guanajuato, Michocan, Sinaloa, Durango San Luis Potosi and Zacatecas.  Compared to most of the roads in all of those states, ours really do qualify for the word "atrocious."  The back roads in most of these states are better than the main state highways in Jalisco.  The only other state I've ridden/driven that seems to exhibit the same shoddy construction/materials problems we have here is the rather notorious state of Tamauliapas.

Really good examples of this are the "new" east Periferico around GDL which fell apart within months of being built, the bone jarring badly built and badly repaired Jocotopec bypass, the "new" four lane road from Jocotepec to El Molino that potholed within the first year, Chapala highway where overlay paving failed in a year, and on and on.

There's something seriously wrong here with both the construction and the maintenance.  Either the contractors are being allowed to deliberately use bad materials and construction practices or the people in charge are ignorant of what good engineering, construction and materials are.  For example, it is typical here to have potholes that are caused when chunks of new pavement come unstuck from the pavement underneath.  That is the result of failure to properly prepare the surface being paved.  You see it all over here, I've seen little of it in these other states, some of which have more variable climates that are hard on roads.  The exception again is Tamauliapas where you see a lot of the same thing.

Another thing you see regularly here and in Tamauliapas is the pavement literally dissolving into loose gravel, which is a sure indication of faulty material, either insufficient binder mixed with the aggregate or faulty binder.

It certainly doesn't help that there is no attempt to check weights on a bunch of obviously overloaded road wrecking trucks.

As noted above, none of this discussion will probably result in anything.  The governor is supposedly a moto rider.  We can only hope he gets out and sees the contrast between this state and others first hand from the seat of a moto where you are up close and personal with it.

 

 

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Roads and infrastructure are boring - plus from my experience the improvements only result in everything speeding up to much more dangerous driving speeds. The senseless carnage increases.

Two cliches - "sell the sizzle, not the steak" and, "sexy sells, every time"

This image has sensual and practical appeal. On a romantic vacation, staying at a quaint B & B or old hotel, hire a gondola to take them about the flower Chinampas, pay for a couple of songs, buy an armful of beautiful flowers, say Siberian Irises. Back to hotel, change for dinner. After dinner, more roaming gondoliers in the streets, they (estudiantes, that is) usually offer a "tip for a tip", in this case, for cash, they give a squirt from their leather wineskins. It often gets on your face (not used to wineskins and all - your lips may not touch the wineskin). For that reason they probably use a semi-sweet Mexican white wine. A taste and memory which will last a life time.

If an aspiring politician, or an enthusiastic environmental activist, can't get local business people and voters behind a project like this, they might as well give it up, and join an entry position with the Mexican Bureau of Weights and Measures!

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i like this idea of floating gardens et al. certainly this area is under  developed toursit wise.it has great all year climate and great scenery. close to the secong biggest city in mexico and with international aiport 30 mins away. not everywhere has to be like vegas.look at the lake district in rural uk for example.

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Nice drm and image chillin and flowers and wine sure are more romantic that well done road and a whole lot cheaper..however , have ou ever drank wine out of a xahakoa? In the Basque country all kids had to learn pretty young and we did not think of going to any fiesta especiella Bayonne or Dax or Pamplona without a xahakoa full of red wine. and sometimes limonade..hence Basue limonade..the goat skin killed any flavor including that of bad wine however it was always fun to offer a drink to the tourists who had no masteres swallowing with an open mouth..lots of nice red stain on their clothes would ensued and we thought it was all very funny... 

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On 4/3/2016 at 10:20 AM, Semalu said:
11 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

 

 The governor is supposedly a moto rider.  We can only hope he gets out and sees the contrast between this state and others first hand from the seat of a moto where you are up close and personal with it.

 

 

Yeah,I think he's already seen it up close and personal,he's walking around on crutches since his latest moto accident.

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This may be a federal issue and could tie in with ecotourism. I know that there is great frustration with development in the mountains around Chapala and Ajijic, in areas that are supposed to be protected. The ugly scar above/across from Walmart is an example. 

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Probably the last time I will write on this topic   :ph34r:. The point is to get a name from the Governor's staff. The point is that there are a lot of retired gringos here who know a heck of lot of information about the Lake. I am thinking Prof. Stong, Tony Burton, and even Cedros of this board. I can do graphic design if needed. To be become the "flower basket" to Guadalajara is a good thing. The "floating" Chinampa flower gardens of Lake Chapala an ecological tourist attraction (cleans the lake, sustainable agriculture, creates oxygen). The economics of the cut flower gardening is wide open right now, and this area is blessed with perfect weather for this (the multi million flower industry of Colombia is based out of Medillin and Bogota, #2 exporter in the world, have almost identical climate to here). As a gardener myself, there are wide variety of spectacular flowers that will thrive here, which have never been seen in America as cut flowers.

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Guest bennie2

 most of chapala is an ugly shabby town w/wires cable boxes. one/two star resturants. the plaza was fixed up, also there are trees on the mainstreet. as long as you keep the tourist trade there im ok. why would you want all those people around anyway? more trash more noise to complain about? fine, keep it there. dont bring it to ajijic. fixing lights roads paving sidewalks planting trees IMO adds to quality of life. 1000s of people around dont. only MO.

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I hope you guys can put a presentation to the govenor and gives it very serious consideration.we really need something to give this area a boost. Will improve the infrastucture , bring sorely needed pesos into the local economy, create new jobs and all without noise and major changes to the environment. Hope its feasable.good luck.

(Still think a cable car from tobolandia to the hill top would be a good idea as well.)

 

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Guest bennie2

you think is a tourist attraction @ the chapala lake means they will fix roads ect? they built a mall w/ a black coffee & whatever for the weekenders. the resturants in ajijic have lines on holidays weekends. some cafes are full of visitors. have they fixed roads & lights? NO. (maybe that is local level). what do you mean by a "boost"? dream on about floating gardens. when they "boost" around here they think bar/disco/strip malls/fastfood. enjoy. 

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Guest bennie2

(i remember when there was no tobalandia, no highway connecting to guad. so much nicer but we cant turn clock back). THE ORIGINAL QUESTION: issues that affect EXPATS. important issues like wills, drivers licenses, visas. "job creation" is not one of them. seriously we dont work for human resourses. touristy entertainment does not relate to us much, not out business. (cant delete my post on that topic edit feature doesnt work). telling a govenor how to "bring in pesos" is insulting. (spencer knows that). politicans know their job. hes nice enough to come & address personal things for us. spencers list is just fine. 

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I believe the Chapala-Jocotepec carretera is classified as a state highway, so under the jurisdiction of the governor.

1) Create an 'inspection lane' to the outside of the concrete barriers where the military inspection point was installed

near the Jocotepec/Chapala municipio line (west of La Canacinta) in 2012. Relocate the vibradores and topes from

the main carretera lanes to the new inspection lanes. If there is a future need for inspections at that point, traffic can

be redirected from the main lanes to the inspection lanes. The 2 topes and 6 vibradores in the primary lanes at that location 

are BRUTAL on vehicles, and have served no purpose since military inspections were stopped in 2012.

 

2) Mark all topes with permanent, high visibility signs. Topes serve no purpose if people don't know they are there,

and hit them at speed, and even worse, when drivers see them at the last instant and make panic stops, causing all traffic

behind to slam on their brakes.

 

3) Change the traffic light control in San Antonio. There is a need for traffic on the carretera to stop at Allen Lloyd

when driving eastbound, and at Independencia when travelling westbound. There is no reason for traffic

to have to stop once they have passed into the zone between the 2 lights. There is enough time in the green/red

cycle to permit all traffic betwen the lights on the carretera to clear, and still let all waiting north/south traffic on Allen Lloyd

and independencia to cross. Traffic on the carretera gets backed up when the light turns green and traffic cannot proceed

through the intersection because traffic has not yet begun to move due to the 2nd red light 1 block further down the road.

 

Just my 10 centavos.

 

 

 

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On 2016-03-07 at 8:28 PM, puro guero said:

2) Mark all topes with permanent, high visibility signs. Topes serve no purpose if people don't know they are there,

and hit them at speed, and even worse, when drivers see them at the last instant and make panic stops, causing all traffic

behind to slam on their brakes.

Too right and Amen to that! You'll get a kick out if this article. Maybe there is hope that too will change?

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/study-offers-another-reason-to-hate-topes/

I recall a time when anyone who wanted traffic to slow down in front of their house would put up unauthorized topes. Sometimes to just slow things for their kids, sometimes to sell their gelatinas. I wonder if that is still true.

As for the hair splitting on what affects Mexicans and what affects expats: the issues discussed in this topic affect everyone. Why discriminate? We all live under one roof.

BTW, as a final hurrah, Spencer could always ask for improved bilingual services across the board. That at least seems achievable.

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There are a number of suggestions here that involve spending little money for significant improvements.  They deserve repetition IMO.

1.  Those lights in San Antonio have become a major bottleneck that is backing traffic all the way back to that dangerous intersection in front of WalMart.  Staggered timing might help but also more control over left turning is needed.

2.  The tope epidemic on the carretera needs to be tamed.  Most certainly those two car wreckers where there was a military check point for a couple weeks need to be removed.  There is nothing there that justifies topes.  That first restaurant in SJC appears to have stuck a second one right on top of the first one going west bound and it needs to be removed.  And those people need to be removed from the street, they are causing a huge bottleneck there and someone is going to get killed sooner or later.

3.  There are standards for tope design based on desired reduction of speed that need to be followed.  Every tope between Chapala and Joco needs to be evaluated on that basis and some modified and some removed.

4.  Lakeside needs the return of a driver's licensing office.  As the largest town here, that should logically be returned to Chapala.

5.  The state needs to bite the bullet and start preparing for the needed changes to deal with the constant gridlock of traffic through central Ajijic.  We may hate the idea of removing the parking and illegal structures on the road right of way but there is no practical alternative to it.  Years ago before everyone built up the hillsides it would have been possible to construct a Joco style libremiento but obviously that no longer is possible.  The only viable option is to facilitate the flow of traffic through town and that means removing the parking and reclaiming right of way that has been built on illegally.

 

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Guest bennie2

regardless of how valid these complaints are, most of them are not what the govenor is here for. very far from spencers inquiry. its about expat issues only, basically legal paperwork. more ridiculous is expecting the goverment to supply pot? entertaining to say the least.

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Not sure if it falls under the gov's  resposnsibilites but her it goes

Reduce the danger of driving at night in the  Ribera (and all of Mexico)  area:

1) it is a crime punishable by a big fine to have tinted windows, and it is being strongly pursued by  federales on the cuotas , and local vialidad in town, Also every year a car must pass a pollution test.  However no one cares if a cars headlights work or not - Doing a unscientific survey in town at night, every 10th car appear to be  driving with only one headlight - which appears from far to be a motorcycle, and hence ripe for a possible accident.

Somehow  add testing of headlights and break lights as part of the pollution test and every time a vialidad stops a car for any other reason , show that the lights work properly.

 

2. Illumination on the carrtera in town is a  disaster (made worse by 1) above).  all  the street lights are in the service road, and not on the main road where it is really needed.( all the trees in La Floresta make illumination  on the main road almost nill.  Install street lights on the island between the service road and the main road so one can see.

 

 

Keep the feeling of the Ribera

Many folks have mentioned it , and I want to add to it.  Deny permits for things like a amusement park, raves, casinos, etc. so this town is not converted into the 'Atlantic city" or "Las Vegas" for Tapatios.

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