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Plumeau1

Neighborhood dogs roaming around free

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Hi, excuse my ignorance, first winter in this paradise...

I see a lot of dogs sometimes in pack trying to scare you off when you are out walking your dog with his leash and collar, is there some type of city bylaws restricting the owner of dogs to roam around and scare people as if they owned the place ?

I love dogs and cat, but I find it ridiculous having to take a walk with your pet and having to carry a spray bottle with vinegar to protect yourself!!!

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Most loose dogs are let out of their homes in the morning and taken in at night. No big deal unless they are forming packs that menace the neighborhood. Or are they packing up when their owners let them off the leash when walking them?

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There are leash laws in most of the fraccs, condo regimens, gated communities. While I don't know if they can enforce them, or confiscate stray animals, most folks seem to comply. Leash laws are actually a bit of misnomer, the wording is usually "under control". There are some highly trained dogs which "heel" with the walker and "sit" when the walker stops. They have earned the honor to be off leash. They have usually been tested to see how they react to loud noises, cats, children, etc. They are most often tested as puppies by specialist dog trainers such as Schutzhund.

There are different attitudes and customs as to pet ownership, and animals in general, in Mexico. There is supposed to be a new animal control officer in Chapala - but no one knows who it is, or what they do. Great job if you can get it!

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Many Mexican dogs just live on the street and sleep in front of their house, they are not walked on leashes and are usually not aggressive . The aggressive ones are usually the dogs that are on leashes and let off as they do not know how to behave around other dogs.

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You are right to be afraid of these dogs, There have been recent stories on this web board about roaming dogs attacking other dogs as they were walked by their owner. Other stories where the dogs attacked people. Other than giving the victims of these attacks a pat on the head and a token "tsk tsk how sad", the authorities have demonstrated no willpower to actually ensure security around by enforcing the leash laws (or many other laws for that matter). You can search the forums for dog attacks or dog issues if you want to read up on the problem.

Basically, this isn't Kansas anymore and you will need to take care of yourself. Some people have rather pathetically suggested carrying stones to throw at a charging pack of dogs. Those of us who have experienced the reality of a dog attack carry tasers or have abandoned the daily walk. At no time should you leave your house without ID, funds and a cell phone. If you are attacked you, and they, will be your only resources for help. Make sure you have emergency numbers programmed into the cell phone then cross your fingers someone shows up. I suggest you also call a friend to come to your assistance who is knowledgeable in the way things work around here. If you are hurt, you will need an advocate to help you navigate the legal and medical systems to avoid those who would take financial advantage of you when you are hurt and at your most vulnerable.

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A friend of mine has a neighbor on Rinconada Tapatia at the bottom of the street in Upper La Forest that allows their dogs to roam free during the day. When my friend confronted them on numerous occasions the husband blamed a Mexican lady that has a dog that looks like theirs. The wife just blatantly denies it. They seem to think denial is a river in Egypt. By the way they are not Mexican.

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yes the dogs with their owners are more dangerous than the ones that live on the street.

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It is sad that the stoning works because many of these dogs have been chased by mean little boys throwing rocks.

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I swear some people have dipped into the weeds while looking for their shiny pebbles, clouding their minds where the reality of an attack by a pack of dogs is concerned. At the speed with which it happens there is little time to throw anything or make any gestures. If you were foolish enough to try stoop to the ground to pick up a rock, assuming you are even remotely able to react that quickly, the only thing you will have accomplished by the time that wall of dogs hits you is to have conveniently lowered your throat to their level. Good luck with that.

It seems to me you can travel down denial river as long as you want to, but common sense dictates to err on the side of caution and prepare yourself in advance. The replies of the deniers out there reminds me of a story growing up outside of Montreal near a very dangerous highway. We used to place bets on how many people had to get killed before an overpass would be built. It usually topped twenty. I am now betting that a whole lot more people and dogs will have to be mauled before anything ever gets done about it here. There is a serious problem in this community with street dogs, owned or not. Sadly, nothing will be done about it while you and the administration persist in keeping your heads in the sand.

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This could result in a movement to keep expats off the streets.

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Interesting how people want to move to Mexico and expect everything to be like back home..

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Unfortunately, more than a few expats get down here and take advantage of the more relaxed attitudes about things like this. I've seen more than a few of them let their dogs crap on sidewalks, in people's yards and in the street without picking it up. And more than a few of them let their dogs run loose.

And then there are those who use "dog walkers" and do not require those people to either leash the dogs or pick up after them.

Sometimes I think the irresponsible expat dog owners are a much bigger problem here than the Mexican dog owners. Too bad the people I am referring to don't see the value of setting a good example for the rest of the community.

Some folks in Mexico would rather not have loose dogs and their excrement all over the place. Hence, Mexicans have adopted leash laws and I notice the fracc east of where I live, which is 72 percent Mexican, has leash and pick up regulations as well.

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Actually in the city I am right now people are not allowed to put the garbage out until they hear the bell so that takes care of garbage being spread out by dogs and the garbage comes by at 6am which means people have to be up and take the garbage at that time..There is a plus and a minus to everything. Dogs are routinely exterminated as well. That is the way it is done in other parts of Mexico.

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I swear some people have dipped into the weeds while looking for their shiny pebbles, clouding their minds where the reality of an attack by a pack of dogs is concerned. At the speed with which it happens there is little time to throw anything or make any gestures. If you were foolish enough to try stoop to the ground to pick up a rock, assuming you are even remotely able to react that quickly, the only thing you will have accomplished by the time that wall of dogs hits you is to have conveniently lowered your throat to their level. Good luck with that.

It seems to me you can travel down denial river as long as you want to, but common sense dictates to err on the side of caution and prepare yourself in advance. The replies of the deniers out there reminds me of a story growing up outside of Montreal near a very dangerous highway. We used to place bets on how many people had to get killed before an overpass would be built. It usually topped twenty. I am now betting that a whole lot more people and dogs will have to be mauled before anything ever gets done about it here. There is a serious problem in this community with street dogs, owned or not. Sadly, nothing will be done about it while you and the administration persist in keeping your heads in the sand.

I swear some people have dipped into the weeds while looking for their shiny pebbles, clouding their minds where the reality of an attack by a pack of dogs is concerned. At the speed with which it happens there is little time to throw anything or make any gestures. If you were foolish enough to try stoop to the ground to pick up a rock, assuming you are even remotely able to react that quickly, the only thing you will have accomplished by the time that wall of dogs hits you is to have conveniently lowered your throat to their level. Good luck with that.

It seems to me you can travel down denial river as long as you want to, but common sense dictates to err on the side of caution and prepare yourself in advance. The replies of the deniers out there reminds me of a story growing up outside of Montreal near a very dangerous highway. We used to place bets on how many people had to get killed before an overpass would be built. It usually topped twenty. I am now betting that a whole lot more people and dogs will have to be mauled before anything ever gets done about it here. There is a serious problem in this community with street dogs, owned or not. Sadly, nothing will be done about it while you and the administration persist in keeping your heads in the sand.

These are just options you have if you don't happen to have a stun gun on you. I still stick to the handful of gravel. You don't lean down and pick it up when you're attacked.. .. you keep a pocket full.

The way you're talking I take it that there are currently bands of dogs attacking people? And no one has shot them?

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yes the dogs with their owners are more dangerous than the ones that live on the street.

This has absolutely been my experience. Most street dogs mind their own business. The worst experiences I have have been gringos with dogs off leash, or people with dogs on leash that they still cannot control.

For the record - I do not particularly mind or care when people have their dogs off leash so long as the dog is controlled and friendly. Many people, local and expat, walk with their dogs off leash and usually I have no problem. I'm also hypervigilant and walk with a long stick, and if I see my Mexican neighbors with their "leashed" aggressive German Shepard (the leash of which they simply let go of when the dog runs aggressively at me) I am ready to give that dog a beat down with my stick.

And it's sad, because I don't want to hurt a dog especially when it's the owner's fault for not controlling it.

If a pack is roaming and dangerous, definitely locate the authorities. My experience was documented here (not a pack, but owned and let off leash, scaring the hell out of quite a few of my neighbors who would all share similar stories of having to snatch up their tiny dogs as the seven unleashed dogs would come barreling towards them.) I used the system, and in that case, since there we're owners to appear, the police responded and issued a stern warning to the owners.

Not sure who to call about a dangerous street pack, but you could be saving the life of an innocent pet or child or adult by doing so.

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I agree Serenity we have been walking with dogs for the last 15 years and the dogs that have been agressive and attack have always been dogs that have escaped from their properties or one owned by a foreigner who thinks his or her dog is an angel and that she or he could not control. Street dogs as a rule mind their own business. Once in a while one act tough but as a rule they are no problem. I have not heard of packs of street dogs in Ajijic attack anyone but it used to happen a lot in Taos NM in the 70´s when there was no pound. People used to have large dogs like doberman, shepherds that would run totaly free, would multiply like crazy and the street dogs there were large dogs, when a

female was in heat, you could hear the fights and attacks at night, it was just awful but there was no way anyone would go out and do anything about it then..

Dogs would not spread garbage if people made sure it is on the truck rather than be lazy and leave the garbage on the street wether it is the right day or not. How about picking up the garbage back in the yard at night if the truck has not gone by or makesure it does not stay out if the truck does not come,,of course the truck would have to come by on the day it is supposed to go by as well.

Easy to blame dogs but people ae the ones responsible for the dogs and very often the problem is people not dogs..dogs pretty much reflect their owners..

Frankly Serenity those dogs that attacked your dog should have been put to sleep and the owner should have been fined.

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Semalu, what is it you think we should all be doing?

The solution is the same used for animal control everywhere and the same solution I have promoted since I was attacked. First the admin must set up a system where all dogs must be licensed, then they need to be committed to its enforcement. Any dogs that are found unlicensed or wandering the streets should be picked up and brought to a pound. The dogs owners, if there are any, would then have three days to retrieve the dog from the pound. Such owners would be subject to paying sufficient costs and fines so that the pound system is self supporting financially. When dog ownership has financial consequences, owners tend to become more responsible.

Any dogs that have demonstrated aggressive and violent behavior would be put down immediately. No exceptions. All other dogs (those that are adoptable) ideally would be delivered to those groups that seek to protect dogs by finding responsible homes first. This is what organizations like the SPCA do and is needed desperately here. For this to work, you need an administration that is committed to maintaining the system. That requires good government that practices rule of law. Good animal control laws are already on the books, sadly there has not been a single government that has seen fit to enforce them.

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Semalu you should bring up the subject with the new expat representative, I am sure she will jump right on it.

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Frankly Serenity those dogs that attacked your dog should have been put to sleep and the owner should have been fined.

Hmm. Not sure I agree with that. Fined? Oh, yes, and I could have insisted on the second hearing which is where I think a fine could have been issued, but I had felt the owners got the message. But putting them down? Hard to say. Those dogs that mauled my dog did it because of their reckless owner who had a habit of (as I was told by several different households) unleashing them when they were a few blocks from home and letting them run free when they were full of excitement and energy while he leisurely strolled 30 ft behind them with zero ability (or effort made, in my case) to intervene during an attack. I don't know if any of those dogs would have been violent on its own, but having no experience with any of those dogs aside from that one time, that's just speculation.

Now, had those dogs also attacked me, then my attitude about putting them down would be very different. And, had there been a record of the same dogs killing that chihuahua as another poster witnessed, maybe you are right. Maybe instead of putting down all the dogs, give the owner the option to rehome at least 3 of the dogs so they could no longer operate as a pack that large.

I just really encourage anyone who is aware of a wild pack to please, please notify authorities and do whatever they can do to see that action is taken. Not taking action when we know of a dangerous condition can mean the next incident will involve a dead child or adult.

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