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Neighborhood dogs roaming around free


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Thank you, Semalu. What you propose will not happen here, at least not in my lifetime. It is how for the most part dogs are dealt with in the United States. We have chosen to not live in the United States but in a small municipality in Mexico.

Serenity actually answered my question of what we personally can do right now. Whoever sees or is unaware of a problem should report it and follow up on it as Serenity did with her situation.

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You are right Xena, I have already brought this matter to the attention of everyone I spoke with at the time of my attack, a little under one year and one changed administration before Serenities attack. Suffice it to say I did not meet with the same reaction that Serenity did so her experience is evidence of some improvement since. How effective that recent chastisement has been for that particular dog owner is something perhaps Serenity will let us know down the road. Has the lesson stuck? Perhaps we could also keep notes on this board where these attacks occur, first as a warning to others, but to also identify the repeat offenders to be brought to the attention of the admin.

You are also right that Mexico is not the USA and we certainly do choose where we live and also where we invest. Because of the absence of rule of law in most of Mexico's institutions and the absence of appropriate financial vehicles available here, few expats that I know who live here will also invest here. That is also evidenced by the numerous posts about accessing money on other topics on these boards. Mexico is very slowly strengthening government institutions as part of the bigger fight against corruption so improvements will eventually come. But you are right, it will not visibly improve in our lifetimes and something as basic and simple to do as dog control is not likely at the top of the list.

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Semalu, I also wonder about what the effect of the chastisement and paying vet bills will be in Serenity's case -- especially when mommy paid the bill. I look forward to seeing how this works out.

I think it is an excellent idea for us to post here (and maybe on TOB) about dog attacks and problems. just being aware will help.

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Semalu, if I understand correctly, you were seriously (and I mean seriously) injured when people let their 3 aggressive dogs hang out unchained and you got mauled while on a jog. That is horrifying. That is serious or permanent injury along with terror of imminent death. And to hear that the owners did not help you and could not have cared less about the attack and the physical and emotional trauma, and that the authorities you notified had the same "who cares" attitude, is heartbreaking.

I have no idea why my case was handled the way it was. They were actually served with the notice to appear the same day I filed it, which I was told is uncommonly quick. Maybe it helped that the person I hired for legal assistance and translation services knew the people in the Municipalo Publico, or there is a new administration, or I got them on a good day.

You get some owners that are responsible and others that are not, and you are right, this place is totally unlike the US (and I don't expect it to be the same) but I also don't expect my dog or me or an innocent mom walking with her baby and her little dog off-leash to be mauled by SEVEN owned, well-fed dogs running at full throttle.

So much of it depends on the owners. Two weeks ago, three very aggressive dogs that live across the street from me escaped and killed 7 goats that belong to my gardener. In that case, the owners did the right thing and took responsibility. They apologized, they paid the guy the value of the goats he lost without complaint that it was too expensive or unfair or without him having to make repeated requests or blowing him off The owners also said they never wanted another similar incident and had all 3 dogs humanely put down.

The dogs had managed to dig under several fences to escape, and generally everyone hated walking by that property as all 3 would come running to the fence ready for death. Of course its reasonable for dogs to bark at someone passing their own property, but not reasonable for them to dig out and attack and kill, or attack other dogs if the gate is accidentally left open (these dogs did escape with the gate open a few times and another neighbor had to fight them off.)

So much of it comes down to the owner. Are you dealing with a reasonable person who takes immediate responsibility, or someone who dismisses you, tries to blame you (the victim), acts like death or injury is something to be proud of in your dog, and asserts they fully intend to continue with their reckless behavior, because, "This is MEXICO!"?

We never know with whom we are dealing until we have to face them, and you unfortunately had a terrible experience, and the people (authorities) who were supposed to be there to help prevent another attack did not do their job. But, given that we are currently in a country where the gov't itself can (allegedly) arrange the murder over 40 innocent students whose remains have never been found and nobody but the families and friends seem to care, issues like animal control are likely seen as concerning as someone littering a tissue in the US.

While I was very happy with how stern the person handling my hearing was with the owner, that is zero guarantee it will not happen again. That same pack would be likely attack if someone were to accidentally leave the gate open, which sounds similar to how you got hurt.

Its horrible that you may feel you need to carry a weapon or constantly look over your shoulder when you jog and suffered such severe injuries and the owners took zero responsibility. I suppose the only thing we can do given the reality of where we live is be hypervigilant, avoid known areas of concern, carry a weapon, and hope for the best.

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The solution is the same used for animal control everywhere and the same solution I have promoted since I was attacked. First the admin must set up a system where all dogs must be licensed, then they need to be committed to its enforcement. Any dogs that are found unlicensed or wandering the streets should be picked up and brought to a pound. The dogs owners, if there are any, would then have three days to retrieve the dog from the pound. Such owners would be subject to paying sufficient costs and fines so that the pound system is self supporting financially. When dog ownership has financial consequences, owners tend to become more responsible.

Any dogs that have demonstrated aggressive and violent behavior would be put down immediately. No exceptions. All other dogs (those that are adoptable) ideally would be delivered to those groups that seek to protect dogs by finding responsible homes first. This is what organizations like the SPCA do and is needed desperately here. For this to work, you need an administration that is committed to maintaining the system. That requires good government that practices rule of law. Good animal control laws are already on the books, sadly there has not been a single government that has seen fit to enforce them.

There are no pounds here, just the volunteer organizations such as the Ranch, with 60-70 dogs, Anita with her 70 + dogs and Lucky Dog with their 20 - 25 dogs. These are often past full, overloaded, and the good hearted snowbirds apply northern standards and decide every dog out on its' own is homeless and steal them and then bring them to one of the above. These dogs never see their family again and the kids cry for their lost dogs. In addition, posting the dogs on these forums are only good if they are owned by foreigners, as most Mexicans, (and foreigners), do not read these forums.
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A dogcatcher--in Mexico??? Not practical and I certainly wouldn't want one. What would my neighbors, who have no yard, do with their dogs all day if not put them out on the street? They would poop in the house rather than in my gated cochera. But I would prefer to pick up the poop (which is deposited on my neighbor's stoop laid on a newspaper) than have a dogcatcher grab these dogs, take them to the pound and put them to sleep when my neighbors either can't find them or can't afford the fine to bail them out of the pound. Not fair to the people who have no money to rent a house with a yard.

Of course, I agree that if someone has dogs they should also have a yard for them. But it is what it is.

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A dogcatcher--in Mexico???

Of course they do! Mexico City has teams of them, they put down 16,000 dogs and cats per month. They have also passed laws that require microchips, at one stage they were trying to pass that all dogs must be sterilized. I don't know if it passed. It seems that they are trying to restrict pet ownership to upper working class and above. Guadalajara has a huge 'animal control' facility. Monterrey recently made international news, declaring war on its out of control dog population. These dogs are mostly starving, sick animals, that no one wants.

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At the risk of sounding callous: if a person is not able to provide for an animal, he/she shouldn't have one. That includes a place for it to be during the day where they are not defecating in the neighbor's property and expecting the neighbor to pick up their poop.

Food and shelter are necessities: having a pet isn't.

Mexico City apparently is dealing with the reality.

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Some years ago, dogs were routinely shot in Ajijic and Chapala during the night by police, and never seen again. Many, many years ago, as a teen, I spent a summer with the local pound in my home area. If we could not catch them, we shot them.

Is that what you folks want now? I hope not.

To a large dog, a small dog, cat, squirrel or bird triggers the hunting reflex and he sees it as prey. They are wired that way. Our big dog has, on a couple of occasions, come close to killing our tiny dog in a reflex action. Otherwise, they love each other and are playmates. Total, guaranteed control is impossible and leashes are the only answer. So, they are required.

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Dogs are routinely fed poison in market in several towns I know of in Mexico. Actually in one indigenous village I visit in Oaxaca all dogs must be vacinated against rabies and must have a tag to prove it. All dogs without tags are fed poison at the market . A friend of mine had her dog vaccinated but they did not have any tags left and the dog was let out and was poisoned at he market which is the meeting place fo all dofgs in the morning..

Here it is the same in some villages dogs wondering out of their propertoes are poisoned. It is how the dog population is controlled There is a saying down here a dog that goes out is a ded dog and people are not very sentimental about it. We do have dog catchers in San Cristobal but I am not sure how many they catch.

In California when we moved to Jenner our neighbor had a sheep ranch and we had a tiny poodle,the neighbor warned us that if our dog went on his ranch he would be shot as any size dog can go after sheep and

lead other dogs to a chase and a kill. Ranchers are not sentimental about lose dogs in any country I have lived..

Frankly a dog that attacks and kills or tries to kill another dog or person should be put down. I do not look at it as a punishment but as security for other animals or people. There should not be any warning, anyone should know better that let a high prey dog run lose on the street.

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This discussion reminds me of the noise one in that some folks here have such a condescending attitude towards Mexico and Mexicans as to pretend they love loose, dangerous dogs and crap on sidewalks and it is only the "ugly" expats who see this for the nuisance, physical danger and health hazard that it is.

I'll wager some of the same people are going around claiming that Mexicans love getting blasted out of the bed in the middle of a week/school night by cojete wielding thugs and noisy nightclubs pretending to be restaurants..

And as with the noise discussion, others point out that Mexicans are the ones passing laws and trying to address these nuisances and expats have little to do with that effort.

It is coming wholly from Mexicans who are just as fed up as we are.

In actuality, MEXICANS don't want these nuisances either and IMO it insults them to suggest that they do.

If you are one of those expats with that erroneous and condescending attitude towards Mexico I say shame on you.

And if you are one of those expats who takes advantage of the local laxity to be a significant contributor to the dog problem I say double shame on you. I see these obviously well groomed expensive dogs running around the neighborhood in the early hours and I know darned well they don't belong to Mexicans.

They belong to grossly inconsiderate and lazy expats. Too lazy and inconsiderate to take care of your pets properly and safely.

Expats know better and have no excuse. The guilty ones are just bad neighbors and worse examples for the larger community. Unfortunately, there are more than a few of these people in this town and it shows. It shows with the scattered garbage, the dog crap everywhere and the repeated reports of attacks on people and leashed pets.

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To those who might think Mexico is in the stone age on technical matters - the Animal Control in Guadalajara now posts photos of all captured strays on the internet, including details as to where (or why) they were picked up. To claim an animal, you have to produce a valid rabies certificate. If a dog has shown aggressive tendencies, and the owner still wants to retrieve their pet, they have to agree to a microchip implant, which points back to a central, digital file. I don't know what happens to second offenders. While Guadalajara does not seem to have anywhere near the problem of Mexico City or Juarez, the last released data, in 2011, show approx 12,000 dogs and cats put down per year, and about 7,500 sterilizations. I believe the sterilizations are up higher now.

The shooting of dogs in Chapala was reported by a writer (Earl Kemp), who now lives near the border, to have happened in the early 1970's. The Chief of Police, who had been recruited from a local prison (as was common for small towns at the time) got liquored up with his buddies, and shot all the dogs loose at night in Ajijic. The residents tightly locked their doors. The next morning, he couldn't understand the angry faces, "But you gringos complained there were too many dogs!".

Also remember animal control also captures/rescues possums, snakes, and all other wildlife incursions. They are also frontline in investigating animal abuse, which as you know, is now punishable by jail time in Jalisco.

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PLease tell us more about wildlife rescue..I resued an owl and was told to take it to Guadalajara then I was told it was illegal for me to transport it so call the wildlife people in CHapala, at the time I could not reach them 2 or 3 days in a row I ended up putting the wl in a cage and feeding it chicken , chicken bones and liver according to a vet´s instruction and I released him when he could fly 3 months later... Chillin you should work for the Mexican government..very good at telling people all these wonderful things they are doing.. but where were they when I tried to get them to do anything??

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The aim of my post about animal control is that it is not provided locally at this time, as you pointed out, but that it should be, and that the job entails more than chasing dogs. Probably includes education too. Falls under Ecology and the Environment, just like noise.

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The aim of my post about animal control is that it is not provided locally at this time, as you pointed out, but that it should be, and that the job entails more than chasing dogs. Probably includes education too. Falls under Ecology and the Environment, just like noise.

Yeah, and I should be young, thin and wealthy, but I am not.

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Chillin I think many of us understood you intent perfectly. The increasing personal attacks and general snarkiness are just signs that this thread has run its course. If things continue to degenerate perhaps it is time to shut her down?

What it boils down to is that, if we of the foreign community follow the leash and pickup poop laws, there will be far fewer problems whether or not official action is taken. How hard is that? C'mon folks; you can do this.

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Kudos to the dog owners who keep their animals securely on their own property, walk them only on leash or in a secure area, who do not allow incessant barking, don't inflict their dogs on other diners in restaurants, pick up their dogs' poop and are in other ways considerate and thoughtful of the humans with whom they share space. Being a responsible dog owner takes time and effort. If you are unwilling or unable to be responsible, do yourself and everyone else a favor and do not get a dog -- especially do not get multiple dogs.

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