Viajero-Tiempo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Moto Drivers by Viajero-Tiempo Today at 10:41 am Almost every week I pass a cluster of Vialidads, Cruz Roja, and a wrecked moto (Moped/Scooter/Small "Motor Cycle" of low power. We all know what happens...The riders pass on the left, they pass on the right, they follow in a car drivers blind spot, they pull out when underpowered, they use the lane markers as their own lanes, etc etc... I have no idea what the laws for moto riders are, but I know ones that work!! I rode in a large metropolis with many cyclists with few accidents (none for me). Most also had Motorcycle Safety Foundation training as there was a big insurance discount for those passing the class. Riders here certainly need the classes - but I understand that few would admit they are not good/safe/really fast riders. Viales could, with regular stops for infractions point out their unsafe practices. THis post is no more for those riders than it is for me..... I am sick and tired of foolish riders: passing on the right between me and the jersey barriers of the bicycle lanes where they have no chance of escape Cutting in quickly and closely after a (somewhat) successful pass in or out of a passing permitted area Following at the right rear of my car so I have no chance to see them (in my blind spot) and mas y mas y mas Am i liable in accidents caused by such inappropriate (if not illegal) actions - who knows It probably depends on whether the rider is still alive or conscious or knows someone..... I want to schedule a meeting in the future with the Chief of the Vialidades to discuss what we can do. Maybe we can offer some classes Maybe we can celebrate graduations etc TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernguy Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I used to get the same flack in Southern California for lane splitting, and it was legal, I will admit I am one of the culprits here for doing all of the above, unfortunately with all the topes and slow drivers it is a must, I have an extremely loud exhaust so the old folks can hear me coming, ABS works poorly trying to stop over the speed bumps, I call it jealousy or envy for the poor folks in cars "cagers" it takes 30 - 40 minutes to go anywhere, when i get there in 15 minutes, sure its big risk but after riding for over 40 years it is one that I am willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cartero Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I know you don't believe these riders read this forum. Too, I believe it is mandatory for riders to stay well right in the lane. It's like their own lane, at least in their minds. Watch cage drivers swerve to avoid potholes, that otta shake up the scooter guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I have an extremely loud exhaust so the old folks can hear meI'm sure everyone appreciates your extremely loud exhaust..naco.BTW,I used to split lanes commuting to work when I was a kid in LA all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Your retired now what is the hurry, if it takes 15 minutes longer at least you arrive uninjured and alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernguy Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'm sure everyone appreciates your extremely loud exhaust..naco. BTW,I used to split lanes commuting to work when I was a kid in LA all the time. Appreciate it or not they can hear me, when I had a silent exhaust I got inadvertently nocked or swayed off to the side of the road on many occasions which was the reason for putting on a loud exhaust. Much prefer being called a naco than being down on the pavement, plus I got tired of denting peoples doors when they got to close and did not see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Saltos Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 A bike rider need to ride as if they're invisible. No one can see them. It's the best defense when riding. As for "lane-splitting," the OP didn't mention it since none of our streets are 4 lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCdoug Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I know this "loud pipes saves lives" philosophy. Usually, I don't hear these loud pipes until they are virtually on top of me. I suggest you reverse your exhaust so that the sound comes out the front of the motorcycle since the on coming cars are the most dangerous (turn left in front of you). Since most of the loud motorcycles in Canada are Harleys, can anyone explain to me why most of the accidents in Canada involve Harleys. I would bet that the vast majority of motorcycles on the road, are not Harleys, yet they seem to be involved in the vast majority of accidents despite "loud pipes saves lives". I know most disagree because I am speaking to the deaf, possibly because of the loud pipes on their bikes. I ride a BMW with stock pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 First off, riding to the right is exactly what a moto rider should not do as they are usually invisible in the rear view mirrors of the car in front when they do so. I never do it and am not going to start. I want my big bright headlight right where they can see. When I'm driving I much prefer motos or scooters in the same position. Passing on the right and lane splitting in this country is just a very bad idea IMO. If one doesn't pull stuff like that maybe one also wouldn't require making a racket and a noise nuisance that causes the public to not like riders. In any case the drivers here are much too unpredictable for this sort of thing. I keep as much distance from them as I can. When it comes to riding, only the paranoid survive! It is bad enough the scooter people usually don't wear helmets or progressive gear, we also have a group of local riders who do the same thing, wearing their club vests and bandannas to look "cool." Same bunch will ride to a bar and drink and then get back on their bikes at least partially impaired. We could label them as organ donors but unfortunately most of them are too old so no one wants what is left after they fall off and fracture their skulls and turn their outer surfaces to hamburger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned small Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 First off, riding to the right is exactly what a moto rider should not do as they are usually invisible in the rear view mirrors of the car in front when they do so. I never do it and am not going to start. I want my big bright headlight right where they can see. When I'm driving I much prefer motos or scooters in the same position. Passing on the right and lane splitting in this country is just a very bad idea IMO. If one doesn't pull stuff like that maybe one also wouldn't require making a racket and a noise nuisance that causes the public to not like riders. In any case the drivers here are much too unpredictable for this sort of thing. I keep as much distance from them as I can. When it comes to riding, only the paranoid survive! It is bad enough the scooter people usually don't wear helmets or progressive gear, we also have a group of local riders who do the same thing, wearing their club vests and bandannas to look "cool." Same bunch will ride to a bar and drink and then get back on their bikes at least partially impaired. We could label them as organ donors but unfortunately most of them are too old so no one wants what is left after they fall off and fracture their skulls and turn their outer surfaces to hamburger. Stick to overpainting and turning off your hearing aid because you know nothing about riding here like a vast majority of my experienced road rider friends do. Go ahead and suggest I know nothing since I don't ride anymore but I happen to know a lot and help some of the people you choose to insult fix their bikes as i have for over 50 years. By the way none of them would attempt to ride here when they have no depth perception. That is a real danger to everyone,especially when someone does that when they are over 70. May the hamburger be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity6 Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Stick to overpainting and turning off your hearing aid because you know nothing about riding here like a vast majority of my experienced road rider friends do. Go ahead and suggest I know nothing since I don't ride anymore but I happen to know a lot and help some of the people you choose to insult fix their bikes as i have for over 50 years. By the way none of them would attempt to ride here when they have no depth perception. That is a real danger to everyone,especially when someone does that when they are over 70. May the hamburger be with you. Ned, why so mad, eh? Have you seen Mainecoons ride? Have you conducted a comparison in riding capabilities of various situations and surfaces of Maincoons v. the vast majority of your friends? Why can't there be just one thread without one person acting juvenile or insulting someone else? I get so excited to see riding threads - a rare thing here, and you gotta go pollute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity6 Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Moto Drivers by Viajero-Tiempo Today at 10:41 am Almost every week I pass a cluster of Vialidads, Cruz Roja, and a wrecked moto (Moped/Scooter/Small "Motor Cycle" of low power. We all know what happens...The riders pass on the left, they pass on the right, they follow in a car drivers blind spot, they pull out when underpowered, they use the lane markers as their own lanes, etc etc... I have no idea what the laws for moto riders are, but I know ones that work!! I rode in a large metropolis with many cyclists with few accidents (none for me). Most also had Motorcycle Safety Foundation training as there was a big insurance discount for those passing the class. Riders here certainly need the classes - but I understand that few would admit they are not good/safe/really fast riders. Viales could, with regular stops for infractions point out their unsafe practices. THis post is no more for those riders than it is for me..... I am sick and tired of foolish riders: passing on the right between me and the jersey barriers of the bicycle lanes where they have no chance of escape Cutting in quickly and closely after a (somewhat) successful pass in or out of a passing permitted area Following at the right rear of my car so I have no chance to see them (in my blind spot) and mas y mas y mas Am i liable in accidents caused by such inappropriate (if not illegal) actions - who knows It probably depends on whether the rider is still alive or conscious or knows someone..... I want to schedule a meeting in the future with the Chief of the Vialidades to discuss what we can do. Maybe we can offer some classes Maybe we can celebrate graduations etc TIA As far as your liability if someone is passing on the right side - I heard (I wasn't there to witness it) of an expat driver collide with a bike: rider was flying down the Carretera, passing a car on the right, nailed expat's car, and the driver of the car got hauled off to jail. Which is why I bought a dashcam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cartero Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Since most of the loud motorcycles in Canada are Harleys, can anyone explain to me why most of the accidents in Canada involve Harleys. I ride a BMW with stock pipes. Nonsense - the vast majority are crotch rockets! And the comment made by someone about club vests and no helmets to look cool is absolutely absurd. Ned Small - right on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viajero-Tiempo Posted January 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 to me, the OP I see some rationality to MC's avoidance of the far right lane... And I know that loud pipes might save lives - but not if the cagers cant hear - or see.... Is no one, except Serenity, concerned about liability for the poor capabilities of Riders here. I am. If you think all is well here for drivers or riders, just recall this topic when you next pass a crash. It could be you next time. What are the laws here for riders?. DO you think they are rational or irraational? Would you follow the laws or would you follows NOB-ish laws that promote more safety for the riders? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ned, my grandfather who rode a Harley for 25 years on his job with the CHP taught me how to ride,his advice was pretty much like MC's,that said I still managed to lay it down about 14 times,once on the 405 splitting lanes going to work,but I was young,reckless and healed quickly.. Loud pipes are as annoying as loud banda"music"is in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viajero-Tiempo Posted January 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 You, a car driver, could be liable for an accident caused by a rider with no real skills. We now know a lot more about loud pipes, lane splitting and riding NOB. I would like to meet the riders that Ned knows and Id love to hear or read their thoughts on right side vs mid-lane riding. Right side passing vs left side passing. Whether cagers with big booming bass can hear their loud pipes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I wondered what the next episode of Peyton Place was going to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I wondered what the next episode of Peyton Place was going to be... Well,at least it's not about butter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity6 Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Now I gotta find out what this 'Peyton's Place' reference is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity6 Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 to me, the OP I see some rationality to MC's avoidance of the far right lane... And I know that loud pipes might save lives - but not if the cagers cant hear - or see.... Is no one, except Serenity, concerned about liability for the poor capabilities of Riders here. I am. If you think all is well here for drivers or riders, just recall this topic when you next pass a crash. It could be you next time. What are the laws here for riders?. DO you think they are rational or irraational? Would you follow the laws or would you follows NOB-ish laws that promote more safety for the riders? TIA Whatever the laws are, I cannot imagine that they are generally followed by two-wheeled riders. Just look at how many cars are not insured. I realize that it may be cost-prohibitive for most, but following the traffic laws doesn't involve a cost factor. I used to think riding my motorcycle in Los Angeles was a bit scary - that's nuthin' compared to here. My biggest fear is when I'm in car that I'll get nailed by some fool on a scooter or little bike that is passing on the right (between a car and curb) or doing some other stupid crap, "wearing" a skullcap helmet without the chin strap strapped and that kid smashing into me when I am calmly and legally awaiting for traffic to clear so I can turn right and merge on to the Carretera. As an expat, it will be me who goes to jail even if I follow the laws as the rider will most likely get hurt to some degree. Not sure even a dashcam recording can save me from jail even if it proves I am not at fault given my gringo status, so I just drive very, very carefully when I see someone on two wheels nearby. As for when/if I get my own bike and ride down here, I hardly think a 'loud exhaust' will do anything beyond annoy other drivers and residents. Drivers who can hear them are behind you or lateral to you, and by the time the you reach the driver who could actually hear you, I think its a bit too late. In fact, a loud exhaust might just distract or frighten a driver into making a sudden, unsafe move. But, to each his/her own. The fact that I managed to survive my first bike at 17, not even knowing how to drive a manual, hiding said bike from my parents' house and being given a mere 15 minute lesson from a friend in a parking lot and who told me "Now, do NOT ride on the freeway, do NOT ride at night and do NOT take any passengers." I solemnly nodded my head, and helmet-less, went to pick up my friend Emily and we tore up the town, at night, on the expressway, on my little Ninja 250 that has about as much hp as a Toro lawnmower. Maybe less. But I sure thought I was the coolest girl in town, because I was on a NINJA, after all. All up until I tipped over at multiple stop lights having not figured out the severe repercussions (and humiliation) of not putting the bike in neutral prior to releasing the clutch. I don't know how I made it out alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yeah right I know nothing about riding, only been doing it for over 55 years with one minor crash. Dressing for the wreck is just common sense. Motorcycles are not a smart place to be "cool." Nor does it require a Mensa IQ to understand that alcohol and motos mix even worse than cars. Staying alive and riding is all about first maintaining space around you and being as visible to the other vehicles on the road, second being aware and paranoid about the what the other vehicles might do, and third riding a machine that has the power and maneuverability to get out of bad situations very quickly. Fourth, do not ride tired, impaired or distracted in any way! In particular if you don't wear a safe and secure helmet, you are pretty stupid. And that includes wearing those joke helmets that look like military helmets or that just cover the top of your head leaving the rest open to fracture or just being scraped down to the bone. May as well wear your bandanna as one of those. http://www.newsmax.com/US/michigan-helmets-motorcycle-injuries/2016/01/07/id/708590/ I stand by my comment regarding some of the local clowns who parade around in their "cool" but totally unsafe gear on their obnoxiously loud and clunky machines and then compound their ignorance by drinking and riding. They seem to be subscribers to some of the most dangerous myths of riding. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/deadly-dozen-12-motorcycle-safety-myths-and-misconceptions The wonderful climate and very interesting riding in this country is great. However, the roads and drivers are often a lot more unpredictable than NOB. Rounding a tight curve to find a giant pot hole in the middle of your lane is not uncommon on mountain roads. Decreasing radius curves that are also blind are very common as is loose gravel on the road surface. Construction zones are really moto unfriendly here. When you are on a moto, you are basically naked. No crash cage, no air bags, most have no ABS, no seat belts, nothing! All of this requires extra attention to riding skills, personal protection and choosing a machine that has the handling, power and braking to cope with the unexpected from the road and the other drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cartero Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Maincoon, you may have ridden 55 years but several on the board have done likewise and perhaps with a hell of a lot more road under their wheels. Perhaps not. They too have opinions and, while not the same as yours, are entitled to the same respect. I have been hit by a car or truck on three ocassions. Never once did my helmet remain on my head. Granted today they make more secure lids but I hate to ride with restricted peripheral visiion. So I ride with an illegal HA helmet. My choice! I have never put a leg over a bike thinking I'm going down. Doesn't mean I don't ride defensively because I riode fast and hard. Never wore leather unless it was cold out. Doesn't mean I was trying to look cool. Frankly I don't think a true biker is worried about what he looks like. I hate to ride behind a guy with insanely loud pipes, that's why we put them at the end of the line. But Vance & Hines or Thunders are not, in my opinion, loud. Bottom line reads like a T-shirt, If You Have To Ask You Wouldn't Understand. Maine, I've ridden BMW's, Enfields, Triumphs and a passle more. My ride of choice is a Harley. It's a riding style. BMW riders have their own style of riding. Seldom find them together on a ride because of the differences. Bottom line, to quote an old cliche, is we are all brothers in the wind and should respect the opinions of others. It ain't rocket science to point out the bad habits of local 125 cc scooter riders. If the Mexican authorities consider their habits inappropriate they are free to set up savety awareness programs. My point being the OP's concern, while valid, is not going to be resolved on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 If your helmet came off, there was something wrong either with the helmet or the fit. Good helmets do not restrict peripheral vision. Try Nolan, for example. Sorry but riding with the proper protection is not a matter of opinion where the crash and injury data come in. They are very clear on the dangers of riding unprotected and drinking while riding. I don't respect "riders" who showboat with unsafe gear or drink when riding. They are accidents and serious injuries just waiting to happen. And they set a bad example to would be riders. You have no idea how many miles I've ridden. And BTW, my first ride was a Harley and the second one too. And BSA, Triumph, Matchless and Honda. Plus Kawasaki. And a whole series of BMWs, one of which I iron butted on. My brother rides a Harley. I've ridden it. IMO it is not a safe or suitable machine for the roads and drivers here. Neither does he. That is a matter of opinion and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. As for riding in unsafe gear, which you seem to have described yourself as doing in your post, well...it's your body. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCdoug Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Nonsense - the vast majority are crotch rockets! And the comment made by someone about club vests and no helmets to look cool is absolutely absurd. Ned Small - right on! Nonsense ?? Do you have numbers to back up your strong objection ? I admit that I don't have the numbers from the government insurance company, but every time I read of a m/c accident in my area it always seems like some old couple on a Harley. Whether they had loud pips or not, I can not say, but a lot of the Harley crowd swear by the "loud pipes save lives" theory. Learning defensive riding skills would be a better investment of your money spent on aftermarket loud pipes. I have taken 2 defensive riding courses and every spring I reread my defensive riding skills books before venturing out on the road. As for the "loud pipes save lives", other than Harleys, is there any louder bike than a sport bike and yet you claim that Sport bikes are the leading bike in m/c accidents. Seems more like "loud pipes take lives" if we were to follow this line of reasoning But if what you say is true then, I suppose I should just buy loud pipes, because it is much easier than taking courses, practicing skills and reading books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCdoug Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Maincoons said - And a whole series of BMWs, one of which I iron butted on. WOW, the whole Iron Butt rally, or the 1,000 miles in 24 hours version - if the Rally, did you finish and what place? For those unfamiliar with Iron Butt Rally, only Iron Men finish this test of riding stamina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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