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7 Christians Jailed For Refusing To Convert To Catholicism in Mexico


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What about the part, "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church?"

Disclaimer: I am not Catholic, just interested in the history of Christianity.

IMHO pretty much all institutional religion hasn't followed the teaching of Christ well.

The problem with quoting the Bible, the New Testament, is that no one knows who wrote it.

The Gospels were all unauthored. The scholars who chose the 4 (4 was considered a lucky number) Gospels attributed the authors because what was written was what the scholars thought Mark, etc. might have said. The scholars chose the documents that told the story they wanted. Thousands of other documents were destroyed or discarded.

The Gospels were written decades after the deaths of any witnesses to Jesus.

I've never understood quoting or believing in something that we don't know from whence it came or who wrote it.


"These familiar four were the first Gospels, and their authors may (or may not) have actually witnessed some of the events described therein. In ancient times many other Gospels existed—perhaps as many as 30. Some of them might have been as popular as today's canonical quartet. But the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John have survived to become keystones of the New Testament."

I prefer the Gnostic Gospels such as Philip's that describes Jesus' relationship with Mary and how it angered the other Apostles:


"As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."

What anthropologists think Jesus looked like, about 5' tall, thick build, dark skin and short kinky hair.


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Almost every event in the Jesus story was copied from earlier myths. There have been at least 16 saviors before Jesus who were crucified and died for our sins. It's a wonder people must be tortured, threatened and killed to force them to believe it.


The 21 known saviors:

1. Mithra Christ of the Persia (600 BC)
2. Hesus of the Druids (834 BC).
3. Yesu Krishna of India (900BC).
4. Attis the Christ of Phrygia (1200 BC).
5. Dionysus of Greece (500 BC).
6. Horus the savior of Egypt (3000 BC).
7. Hindoo Sakia of India (600 BC).
8. Savior Quexalcote of Mexico ((587 BC).
9. Wittoba the lord of Telingonesic (552 BC).
10. Savior Prometheus of Caucasus (547 BC).
11. Quirinus the Christ of Rome (506 BC).
12. Lao of Nepal (622 BC).
13. Bali of Orissa (725 BC).
14. Alcestis of Euripides (600 BC).
15. Thulis of Egypt (1700 BC).
16. Indra of Tibet (725 BC).
17. Crite the savior of Chaldea (1200 BC).
18. Anointed Zoroaster of Persia (1500 BC).
19. Thammuz of Syria (1160 BC).
20. Judas of Galilee (6 BC).
21. Simon of Judea (4 BC
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Another interesting study is the Jesus Seminar that determined by history, science, etc., what could be true in the Bible, what Jesus could have said. Very little was possible.


"More than 200 scholars of religion, called Fellows, have participated in the Jesus Seminar and other Westar projects since 1985. A culture of collaboration, collegiality, and public outreach sets Westar apart from other academic societies."


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What anthropologists think Jesus looked like, about 5' tall, thick build, dark skin and short kinky hair.


I know a Jesus who looks just like that,he works at our local tianguis.

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If he appeared in the U.S. today, being less than 5' tall, he would be arrested for looking like a terrorist and deported.

Jesus was described as being short, so less than the average male height of 5'1".

"The historic record also resolved the issue of Jesus's height. From an analysis of skeletal remains, archeologists had firmly established that the average build of a Semite male at the time of Jesus was 5 ft. 1 in., with an average weight of about 110 pounds."
"The fact that he probably looked a great deal more like a darker-skinned Semite than westerners are used to seeing him pictured is a reminder of his universality," says Charles D. Hackett, director of Episcopal studies at the Candler School of Theology in Atlanta. "And [it is] a reminder of our tendency to sinfully appropriate him in the service of our cultural values."
Isaiah 53:2
"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
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If you want to discuss history, carry on. If you want to get into beliefs, that becomes a real religious thread and we'll have to close it.

Just curious. What does this have to do with Chapala Guadalajara?

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Well he was crucified in his time so that is not much better..

The cruelty that humans can bestow upon one another is always surprising.

The Romans crucified over 10,000 people. In 40 AD, they were crucifying 500 a day. It was a punishment reserved for the lowest of the low and presented a problem for a Jewish messiah.

Crucifixion was a popular penalty for thousands of years.


"Deut. 21:23, "A hanged man is accursed by God," was understood to mean that the very method of death brought a divine curse upon the crucified. Thus, the idea of a crucified Messiah posed a special problem for such Jews as Paul (cf. Gal. 3:13; 1 Cor. 1:27-29)."
"The social stigma and disgrace associated with crucifixion in the ancient world can hardly be overstated. It was usually reserved for slaves, criminals of the worst sort from the lowest levels of society, military deserters, and especially traitors. In only rare cases were Roman citizens, no matter what their crime, crucified. Among the Jews it carried an additional stigma. "
No one was allowed a religious burial which was part of the terrorism for the Jews.
"Death usually came slowly; it was not unusual for persons to survive for days on the cross. Exposure, disease, hunger, shock, and exhaustion were the usual immediate causes of death. Occasionally death was "mercifully" hastened by breaking the legs of the condemned. In Jesus' case death came much more swiftly than usual. A spear was thrust into his side to assure he was really dead before the body was removed (John 19:31-37). Bodies of the crucified were often left unburied and eaten by carnivorous birds and beasts, thus adding to the disgrace."
A god as a parent
"Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ###.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified."
"Heracles makes a descent into Hades and returns from it with Theseus and Peirithoüs, just as Jesus descends into the “lower parts of the earth” or Hades (Ephesians 4:7-8); Though Jesus does not bring anyone up from it. Heracles’ body is not found and he is assumed to have been taken by the gods:”After this, when the companions of Iolaüs came to gather up the bones of Heracles and found not a single bone anywhere, they assumed that, in accordance with the words of the oracle, he had passed from among men into the company of the gods.”
"Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age."
Attis of Phrygia
"Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected."
"Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days."
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