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7 Christians Jailed For Refusing To Convert To Catholicism in Mexico

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Watchtower is a Jeowah Witness paper so hardly a good source to read about the first Pope..

The Jehovah's Witness paper just might be a leetle bit biased. Ya think?

Back in my childhood, the Witnesses were very active in our neighborhood. When they came to our door, my very Roman Catholic mother would greet them and tell them she was on her way to Mass and didn't have time to talk. They left immediately, without a word. From this, I gathered they didn't have much use for the Old Religion. :unsure:

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Back in my childhood, the Witnesses were very active in our neighborhood.

In LA I used to engage them and ask them some very pointed questions,they got flustered and stopped bothering me.

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So, does the OP believe that Catholics are not Christians or does the wording of the title just make it sound that way?

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The first Christians were those who followed Christ, before there was a Catholic Church.

You are correct. They were mostly Jews and a lot of them got eaten by lions. But in the context of "modern formal Christianity"as in "we have a church building and a headquarters" the "Roman Catholics" were first because the Romans let them,the ones that weren't eaten by lions.Some European Protestants and Especially a great many United States Protestants insist that Catholics aren't Christians. There are many of these right here in Mexico,the foreign proselytizers, whose goal is to save all the Catholics because according to their teachings ,Catholics are not Christians. They also target the indigenous. The first non-Catholics were created by Henry VIII so he could divorce his wives as the founder of the Church of England known as the Anglican Church today. Yes before the Lutherans and the Anabaptists. By the way Jesus Christ has billing in the Koran.

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I live about ten minutes from Tetlan where the headquarters of the church( La Luz del Mundo) is and the largest "Christian"community in Mexico is,we get a lot "hermanos" coming around trying to convert people,they are a nuisance.

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The Ethiopian Christians go back to the first century and so does their church. The bishop of Rome emerged as a leader of the church in the 3rd century so they were not the first Christians. As Slaintes says the first Christians were semites and spread from there .

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Ned Small,La Luz del Mundo is a piece of work,it's all about money,power and sex and has a huge following of sheep.

I suppose that could be said of a lot religious cults.

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The first non-Catholics were created by Henry VIII so he could divorce his wives as the founder of the Church of England known as the Anglican Church today.

It's known as The Church of England. It is the home church of the "Anglican Communion."

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They are really big in Chiapas too..

In Texas too.

Their doctrine is very similar to that of the Wahabis,especially when it comes to women.

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Jesus was a jew and arabs are Semites too.It is best not to argue about religion or politics.I stick to everything I have said here because of my experiences and what I personally have learned since I was a youth, through various means. i do not need google thanks and Wikipedia even less. How many of you know that the Nazis who zealously made lists and excelled at bureaucratic documentation,named protestants on said documents as being Evangelisch?

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Yes there were Christians before the Catholic church was founded and do not forget there is also an Eastern church that is not Catholic and just as old.., one group chose Peter another group chose another apostole to follow and that doesnot make then lesser Christians than the Catholics.

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Modern Christians in the West follow the Bible, esp. the "New Testament".

All versions of the New Testament say the first "Christians" were the followers of Paul (Saul of Tarsus) in Antioch.

Acts 11:25 - 26

" And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul; 26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. "

Dating the first "Christians":

This happened during Paul/Saul's first missionary trip to "Antioch of Syria", and is dated from independent sources that say there was also a prophet named Agabus, who announced that a time of famine was about to occur (around 46 CE).

This correlates with Paul and newly named "Christians" in Antioch of Syria's documented preparations for famine predicted by Agabus.

This analysis dovetails with Christian accounts of Christians initially being identified as a Jewish sect until the slightly later persecutions of Trajan (killing "Christian Bishops" in Jerusalem as distinct from Jews), and an earlier tax on Jews (70 CE), where Pliny et al describe (to Trajan) that "Christians" themselves finally publicly announced that they were different from Jews, and not to be taxed (111 CE).

Peter and his early followers in Jerusalem did not publicly call themselves "Christians" until between 70 CE - 111 CE, while Paul and his followers were called "Christians", and Paul's followers called themselves "Christians" by 46 CE.

So, even Christian's approved sources (the "New Testament") say that calling the Jewish sect: "Christian", first occurred under Paul (not Peter) around 46 CE.

Roman Catholic lore and legend say both Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, probably in the Neronian persecution in the 60s, but there are no records of any kind to confirm that Peter ever went to Rome.

So, can anyone really say that Peter founded the "Christian" church, let alone the "Roman Catholic Christian Church", if he never went to Rome, and was never called a "Christian" ?

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History, as told in the new testament: Peter was the follower (apostle) who was told by Jesus "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church". Peter was the first "pope" of the Catholic church. As his reward for starting a church the Romans didn't like, he was crucified upside down, the position by his own request as a tribute to Jesus.

Question: If not the original twelve apostles, who DID found the Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church usurped Peter as their first Pope. Jesus did not say, "Upon this rock I will build the Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican or any other church." He said "MY CHURCH".

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The Catholic Church usurped Peter as their first Pope. Jesus did not say, "Upon this rock I will build the Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican or any other church." He said "MY CHURCH".

The word "catholic" is explained here:

www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-meaning-definition.html
Your statement isn't clear re "the Catholic Church usurped Peter, etc." Since the word "catholic", from the Greek, is more or less defined as "universal", who did the usurping? "My church" would be whoever constituted the first organized group of people who based their beliefs on Jesus' teachings. Let's hear from a seriously well informed student of history, if possible.
I still haven't figured out the phenomenon of NOB church groups collecting money from their parishioners to support missionaries sent to Mexico for the purpose of converting Mexican people from one Christian sect to another. In the olden days, missionaries were sent all over the world to convert pagans worshiping various gods and groups of gods to becoming followers of Christianity in its various forms.
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Gringal ....your lack of knowledge respect to the Bible only grow with each quote and comment.

One the contrary, your knowledge of history is limited to what you've been told by those interested in "educating" you.

However, this discussion has obviously veered into "belief" rather than history, so I'm leaving it. As in all matters of faith, it's not really open to examination. It's right up there with politics as inadvisable for congenial discussion.

Early on, the most intelligent input on the matter has been the posts by the woman who has spent considerable time in Chiapas and is familiar with the way things work there.

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If you want to discuss history, carry on. If you want to get into beliefs, that becomes a real religious thread and we'll have to close it.

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The Ethiopian Christians go back to the first century and so does their church. The bishop of Rome emerged as a leader of the church in the 3rd century so they were not the first Christians. As Slaintes says the first Christians were semites and spread from there .

There has been a historical battle over which country or political entity adopted Christianity as a "state" religion -first-, for a long time, between Ethiopia and Armenia.

There isn't any dispute that they both preceded the Roman Empire in adopting Christianity,so I doubt they called themselves Roman Catholics in Aramaic, Greek, Latin, or their native languages.

And we all know the Ark of the Covenant is stored in Ethiopia, so they have ties to Judaism as well. Probably have the Holy Grail squirreled away somewhere, too.

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A Fellasha told me the legend about Queen Sheebah having a son from King Salomon and as the story goes that is how Judaism started in Ethiopia. The fact that the Jews in Ethiopia supposedly came from a non Jewish mother has caused some of the very Orthodox Jewish groups to refuse to acknowledge the Fellashas were Jewish and it was a battle in the 80´s to be able to emigrate to Israel when they were being massacred in Ethiopia.. Israel was giving preference to the Russian Jews getting out of Russia and was not accepting the Fellashas.

Some say that the Ethiopian Jews are part of a lost tribe.

That part of the world has a fascianting ancient history and I think Slaintes is probably right..the Christians there do not call themselves Roman Catholics..

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