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Retorno Seguro Update November 2015


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We went to present another retorno seguro on Tuesday of this week (November 24, 2015) and had it rejected. The rules changed and the new ones took effect Monday, November 23, 2015 and they will now only accept them in Mexico City and once they receive all the papers (there are new forms and they now require the vehicle titles to be translated officially into Spanish) they have 15 business days to respond and the person or their legal representative must personally pick up the retorno seguro in Mexico City.

Prior to this we were getting them done at the SAT offices in Guadalajara and Zapopan and we usually would be able to turn them around in 3 to 5 business days from the time the person signed papers at our office. Now the cost will be much higher and logistically it will be more difficult for people to plan their trips as they will need to submit the papers week in advance and not have much idea of when the retorno seguro will arrive needing to be ready to go at a moments notice for a few weeks.

Effectively this will stop all retorno seguros this year as the holidays are coming soon and maybe longer until we get a handle on how they will apply the new regulations.

They also want proof of address but what if a person rents? Also they want a notarized power of attorney, so now people will pay extra for that, also they ask people to attach their tourist visa, what if they are Mexican or temporal or permanentes? Also copy of the Banjercito receipt, what if nobody kept it as most people throw them away?

We will file a complaint with PRODECON as this new policy will wreak havoc and make it difficult if not impossible for people to comply and if they can then the cost will be thousands of pesos extra. For now we are trying to sort out the new regulation and things that they did not provide for so that we can give people answers and help ease them into the new system.

4.2.20. Para efectos de lo dispuesto en el artículo 183, fracción II, segundo párrafo de la Ley, los propietarios de vehículos de procedencia extranjera que hayan sido importados o internados temporalmente a territorio nacional en términos de las reglas 3.4.6. y 4.2.7., y cuyo plazo para el retorno haya vencido, podrán presentar una solicitud mediante escrito libre en los términos de la regla 1.2.2., utilizando el formato "Solicitud de autorización para el retorno de vehículos extranjeros con permiso de importación temporal de vehículos vencidos, de conformidad con la regla 4.2.20.", ante la ACAJACE, cumpliendo con lo establecido en su instructivo de trámite.
El beneficio señalado en la presente regla, no será aplicable cuando la autoridad haya iniciado el ejercicio de facultades de comprobación.

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Hard to believe everyone is sitting on their hands on this information: Personally we will get into our elderly J car & leave Mexico stopping at the border to get a receipt for the TIP Sticker as we agreed to when we arrived.

Good luck with this administrative mash-up

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Doesn't the defense of "necessity" ever come in play in this country? To move from "WELCOME, we don't care where your vehicle is from, no problem" from 4 years ago, until now you cannot even remove your vehicle to the border, anticipating an expensive nationalization, which is never going to happen, is absolutely ridiculous. I can't even imagine this circumstance withstanding the scrutiny of any system of jurisprudence in the top 30 legal systems of the world. It amounts to property seizure, no matter which way you look at it. Someone has to find the name of the legislator in charge of this %$BS and park abandoned foreign plated vehicles all around his/her property.

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Just curious, for the persons caught in this quagmire. That is someone who became a Residente' Permanente' awhile back and was waiting for their car to be nationalized for a number of months ( which of course didn't happen) , so planned to take the car back to Canada in January using the 5 day Retorno Seguro. So if we cannot reasonably get a Retorno Seguro without the aforementioned "going to Mexico City , not know when and if it will be processed, not knowing how much it will cost " then hypothetically what would potentially be the consequences of arriving at the border with the car, wanting to turn in the TIP and take the car out of Mexico? Realizing the risk of the drive without the paperwork. Logically if we cannot get the 5 day permit, cannot leave the car here, but have to get back north within a certain timeline, that seems to be the only option.

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I am of the opinion that we agreed to a contract with the Government of Mexico, aka Customs, on entry with our car. We agreed to remove my car under specific conditions. Thats it, so off we go! We did not agree to take a specific route, or during a specific day of the week or month.

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I don't recall agreeing to remove my vehicle under specific conditions.

This is bureaucrats once again changing the rules.

I wonder if they posted the proposed rule changes and had them voted on to be approved. Maybe Spencer will look into that to see if the rule change is legal.

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I think people are more rational when they continually state that alien life forms exist than when they keep hope alive they can nationalize their old jalopy and pay tens of thousands of pesos for fake papers when they have been warned various times.

On another note, I will probably file an amparo against the new law just for kicks, I would ask other local attorneys for help but that would be a real joke. Few have ever stepped foot into a federal courthouse.

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As Permanentes, we has our SD plated car stashed in our garage for a few years, while only using our Jalisco plated Smart Car. When it did come time to migrate north, we paid Spencer to get us a Retorno Seguro, wanting to do everything properly. So, we waited at a friend‘s house for a week, after selling our home, before heading north with all the proper paperwork for ourselves, the car and the dogs. For the first time ever, we did not encounter a single reten or checkpoint, could not find a dog-friendly motel in Hermosillo, so we pushed on to the border in the dark of night. It was easy driving with absolutely no traffic. However, the Mariposa border crossing was a mess of construction (a year ago) and confusing concrete or wooden barriers and cones, which took us completely past the invisible Mexican border offices. So, we entered the USA alone, with no waiting and only a cursory inspection of our dogs‘ papers and our passports. So, our illegal US plated car is still officially in Mexico, even though we sold it some time ago in Arizona. Come to think of it, I guess we are still there too. Ironically, we traded for a new car which was made in Aguascalientes, Mexico, but is a Japanese make, sold in the USA and not permanently importable into Mexico any more. Logical????

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I am of the opinion that we agreed to a contract with the Government of Mexico, aka Customs, on entry with our car. We agreed to remove my car under specific conditions. Thats it, so off we go! We did not agree to take a specific route, or during a specific day of the week or month.

Please let us know how this works out for you since no one else seems to have done this before.

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Like CeeZee, I'm curious about what happens if you try to turn in a TIP w/out having a Retorno Seguro. Anyone done it?

I've done it several times with no negative consequences. The (my) reality is that this paperwork is sort of like insurance.... IF, and that's a big IF, one gets stopped at the border or anywhere along the way at any 'official' reten or checkpoint and IF any official there is aware enough to see that you are driving an 'illegal' car due to truly expired TIP, there could be consequences without a Retorno Seguro (Safe Return). With one, it is generally safe sailing I'm told. Actually it is not the act of 'turning it in' at the border that is the problem, because those agents have only one thing on their mind.... getting that sticker off your car and out of the computer system' and serving the next person in line. I've never had one question or ask for anything except the Original TIP paperwork from which to work. No Retorno Seguro, no Passport, no Immigration paperwork, Nada. And I've never had the process, other than waiting in line to be next, take more than 3 minutes. Never. At about 4 different border crossings.

I have driven maybe 15 cars out of Mexico over the years that I 'purchased', maybe 5 of them were 'illegal' and needed a Retorno Seguro. In all those 5 cases I did have that legal document 'for insurance'. In none of the 15 cases was I ever stopped... or if I was stopped along the way it was 'routine' and no mention was made of my TIP nor my immigration status. Having said that, I know of other cases where a person (who also drives many cars out of Mexico) has been stopped along the way, presented the Retorno Seguro document and was sent happily on his way. Maybe he would have been sent on his way anyway, but......

I too wonder about the reasoning behind the latest law change.... "Your car is here illegally now but just try and drive it to the border with impunity!". But then it is Mexico and if one spends too much time 'wondering why', one will get old quickly!

I hope that Spencer is successful with an Ampro but that is probably a long shot.

YMMV

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At the behest of Mexican auto dealers lobby.

How does making it more difficult to remove your car help the auto dealers? The people removing their cars will probably want to buy one here from an individual or dealer.

Not being able to remove it and sell it will hurt buying a new vehicle here.

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My advice is wait until Sunday, drive out via a lightly used crossing like Pharr, use the cuotas, avoid the towns as much as possible don't attract attention by speeding, and just take the car out. We did it and no one looked twice at us.

When you turn in the sticker all they want are the original papers and the removal of the sticker. No one is going to check your visa status going out.

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Driving cross country with no valid insurance and hoping that some Federale doesn't stop you and confiscate your vehicle sounds kinda iffy to me.

Chances are you'll get away with it but still..

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I think that, in another thread, it has been discussed that just because a TIP is no longer valid is not necessarily cause for the car's insurance to be invalidated. In fact in the case of Lewis & Lewis, it was shown that the contrary was true.

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In discussion with others it appears the only real solution is as stated here, take the trip north, cuotas, daytime driving and the odds are good that one can hand in the TIP and it's done. Insurance is not an issue and also have new plates and insurance for when in the US for the trip to Canada. Thanks for the pointers here.

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I think people are more rational when they continually state that alien life forms exist than when they keep hope alive they can nationalize their old jalopy and pay tens of thousands of pesos for fake papers when they have been warned various times.

On another note, I will probably file an amparo against the new law just for kicks, I would ask other local attorneys for help but that would be a real joke. Few have ever stepped foot into a federal courthouse.

In the U.S., to protest an agency rule, you must file for a hearing with an administrative judge. I've noticed that the agency process appears to be the same here. Have you looked into that because an administrative judge ruling in your favor to stop the rule will be faster and less time consuming than going to court? In the U.S., you must also go through all the agency's appeals processes before anything can be filed in court.

I doubt the agency passed a new rule changing where the papers can be issued. They had to publish a proposal, wait for comments before it was voted on by the agency and I doubt they passed the changes legally.

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