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GeckoGretchen

Old issue obviously never resolved

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Anyone who lives near the "bull ring" will understand my headache. Last night they played as loud as their amps would go (which morphs the sound into hideous bass echo noises) They played for EIGHT hours straight, ending at about 1:30 am. It was just as intollerable as the last time they did this which was November 8th. I don't know why they are not required to follow the rules. Surely I am not the only one who is sitting here this morning with bleary eyes and a headache. I do know there is a bylaw of some sort that requires them to play at a certain decibel and to halt the music at a certain hour and not play for over a certain time span. NONE of these things are happening. I really feel badly complaining because this is not my country and maybe I do not have a leg to stand on... But it is just a matter of respect for neighbours and we are all in this together, Mexicans and foreigners. Any ideas of where this kind of complaint might be effective??? THANKS

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Bad timing to complain about it this week. You are not going to get much help complaining about noise issues to anyone until next week. Maybe.

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I'm sorry but to do this on Sunday evening when people must get up and go to work the next day is over the top. We expats can sleep it off or flee to the beach but our working Mexican neighbors are the primary victims of it.

I understand the new mayor may be willing to address this continuing problem of outsiders coming into this community and disturbing the peace with these "rave" events for all for their own profit. Cbviajero noted that they had a similar problem in his Mexican GDL community with an abusive venue and took a petition to the authorities who then put a stop to it.

EZPZ has been working on this issue as well. Perhaps we should take a lesson from the above and circulate a petition in this area asking the government to put a stop to this problem at the Bull ring. As noted, they are doing this more and more and not just at fiesta times.

This isn't about celebrating our Patron Saint, this is about thuggery and disturbance for profit. Let's remember that Mexicans passed these noise laws precisely because they understand this has nothing to do with "their" culture, it is an unwanted and malicious intrusion that needs to be curbed.

Why don't we start by organizing a visit to City Hall to see if we can get some cooperation and enforcement of the noise law here?

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I'm sorry but to do this on Sunday evening when people must get up and go to work the next day is over the top. We expats can sleep it off or flee to the beach but our working Mexican neighbors are the primary victims of it.

Cbviajero noted that they had a similar problem in his Mexican GDL community with an abusive venue and took a petition to the authorities who then put a stop to it.

Everyone who signed that petition was Mexican,they work and their kids go to school,it was over the top,even for Mexicans who in general are very tolerent when it comes to noise.

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They have held events for a gizillion years there. Sorry to sound unsympathetic but why would anyone buy a house close to a known noise location? I don't believe you will ever get the resolution you seek. Mainecoons to suggest a protest visit to city hall is, in my ever so humble opinion, a naive political protest. I do however admire your conviction!

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First how loud was it? Most smart phones have a free app you can download for free that measures the sound in quantifiable units, you know in decibels (dB)s. If the sound is above the level allowed for a certain time or neighborhood, you will have something to fight about.

Maybe 4 to 6 years ago, this issue came up and copies of the noise regulations for this area were published. Sadly I have no idea what the limits are. Yes I downloaded the decibel "app". Luckily because I live so far up the hill in Ajijic, the noises have never been so loud that I was bothered by them.

I wish you luck fighting this issue, but if the noise is truly too loud per the Mexican, state ,or municipal statute you might have luck getting the violators to turn the volume down.

I wish you the best.

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Everyone who signed that petition was Mexican,they work and their kids go to school,it was over the top,even for Mexicans who in general are very tolerent when it comes to noise.

Exactly. Same problem here. Obviously we would be more likely to have a mixture of Mexican and expat signers since this is a mixed community but I think the example you cited of dealing with this is still a good one.

Cartero, we don't know if we don't try. These events have been getting louder and louder, longer and longer and more frequent. Eight hours at max volume isn't a concert, it is a rave.

We have a new Chapala government. It seems reasonable to find out if they will listen to the community and curb these events. And while they are at it, make them clean up the gross mess they leave on and around Calle Revolucion. They are not only noise thugs, they are pigs.

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A couple of things that aren't going to go away are the church's early morning cohetes and the barking dogs...ni modo..

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It's unfair to chastise people because they live near noisy venues. When they bought their home, the area was probably quiet enough to suit them.

Years ago the bullring wasn't used for rave type festivals (more likely to have been mariachi music accompanying a charro event). When La Bodega opened it was a neighborhood restaurant, not the annoying live music venue it is now. Where Number 4 is located was previously a residential building; not a late night bar/restaurant with loud bands that play late into the night.

Newcomers need to realize there are few zoning laws here. Wherever you buy a home there may be drastic changes to either existing businesses, or new and noisy businesses may move next door to you.

What you see today is not what you may see tomorrow.

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Exactly right. Those who write "you should have known" posts are oblivious to or in denial of the fact they may be next. At any time someone could take that big property within a few blocks of you and turn it into an all night evento.

I wonder if the Mexican families who have owned homes for decades within the blasting noise distance of this latest acoustic blight are guilty of bringing this on themselves, eh?

Frankly, we are far enough away that this particular annoyance didn't keep us up. However we also know that it is a nuisance for a lot of other folks in our community and hence I am suggesting a community response focusing first on the most affected persons which I'll be happy to help with.

Unlike some I view myself a member and a participant in this community and I am concerned about anything that harms my neighbors here. And this stealth infusion of raves into this community is harming a lot of people

One either sees themselves as part of a community and want to support their affected neighbors when problems like this emerge or one takes the attitude that since it doesn't affect them they not only won't lift a finger for the well being of their neighbors, they'll even have the attitude that they somehow brought it on themselves.

These are the folks who just sit and watch while things go to heck in a hand basket in their town and then they wonder what happened. And then they move. Sorry but I don't have much respect for people who take this attitude.

Anyway, if some of the AFFECTED parties along with some who understand what sense of community is and why it is important want to start a formal response to this problem.

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The winds of change can sometimes carry foul odors. The newly appointed Director of Tourism (this post has been vacant for this past 8 months) is a highly qualified, 24 year old. He has many ideas to increase tourism based upon "other things than just the Lake". I don't think he is talking about attracting an international mime festival.

http://www.theguadalajarareporter.com/index.php/news/news/lake-chapala/47069-young-visionary-takes-helm-at-regional-tourism-office

The 'people' can have their say but the movers and shakers want this area growing and buzzing. They will not stop, look what is happening in South Side Puerto Vallarta right now.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150793-i46-k9022980-Fred_s_construction_update-Puerto_Vallarta.html

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This is a letter I have attempted to compose in espanol to take to City Hall for the Mayor:

Para el Honorable Alcaldo de Ajijic

Vivimos en el Paseo del Lago en La Floresta

En tanto 8 de Noviembre y 22 de noviembre hubo evento en la "plaza de toros" en el Revolucion.

Ambos eventos musica que se reproduce tan alto que no podia ni siguiera hablar el uno al otro nuestra casa.

Ambos eventos disputados durante 8 horas o mas, el 22 que no terminaron hast 1:30 de la manana.

Ambos eventos fueron en un domingo por la noche y no tenia nada que ver con celebraciones por San Andres.

Nosotros solo estamos pidiendo estas "RAVES" ser menos de 5 horas de duracion, respetar el nivel de decibelios y tal vez comenzar a principios de la noche, asi que la gente puede dormir por la noche.

Muchos de nosotros muchas gracias por mirar a nuestra solicitud y ayudar a terminar esta falta de respeto por los barrios.

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I don't know why they are not required to follow the rules.

That's because you are not following the money trail. Times are really tough at Town Hall - hundreds of people are being laid off (mostly political selections), the accounts are all bare. All departments must rationalize their existence. These events generate eventos licenses, which are quite a bit of money upfront. No evento would dare operate without a license - police would certainly be called in. Fines and penalties after the event are most probably completely ignored, or a minor business expense at best. The noisy restaurant/music venues most likely are paying for the evento permits on a regular basis

What I think is terrible is that Chapala is far down the list of desirable evento locations (too far from Guadalajara for one thing). Towns which have better handled their community finances can just say NO to the irresposible Guadalajara promoters. I am sure the bad ones are widely known.

The new mayor needs a lot of money - he made a lot of promises to get that position, now he has to somehow pay for them. It has always seemed strange to me that Mexican politicians think it is O.K. to get involved with some shady money making schemes, as long as the profits (or most of them) are used for the public good on projects of their choosing.

Anyways, I think this is what you are up against. A house or neighborhood is just not worth it if your health, sanity and comfort are at risk. It is pristinely quiet out in the suburbs and lots of room to garden year round.

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That's because you are not following the money trail. Times are really tough at Town Hall - hundreds of people are being laid off (mostly political selections), the accounts are all bare. All departments must rationalize their existence. These events generate eventos licenses, which are quite a bit of money upfront. No evento would dare operate without a license - police would certainly be called in. Fines and penalties after the event are most probably completely ignored, or a minor business expense at best. The noisy restaurant/music venues most likely are paying for the evento permits on a regular basis

What I think is terrible is that Chapala is far down the list of desirable evento locations (too far from Guadalajara for one thing). Towns which have better handled their community finances can just say NO to the irresposible Guadalajara promoters. I am sure the bad ones are widely known.

The new mayor needs a lot of money - he made a lot of promises to get that position, now he has to somehow pay for them. It has always seemed strange to me that Mexican politicians think it is O.K. to get involved with some shady money making schemes, as long as the profits (or most of them) are used for the public good on projects of their choosing.

Anyways, I think this is what you are up against. A house or neighborhood is just not worth it if your health, sanity and comfort are at risk. It is pristinely quiet out in the suburbs and lots of room to garden year round.

That, sadly, about sums it up.

Whatever it is that's driving a person batty on a regular basis, it's not worth staying in the situation. It's true that even if you think your neighborhood is going to be peaceful, things can change with a simple bill of sale, and the estate next door housing a couple of elders could turn into a nightclub.

And that, friends, is a very good reason to RENT rather than buy. Not that I took that advice, myself. Been lucky so far. :(

I will say that some things are obviously going to be a problem: like a bull ring?

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seems sad that this all just points to.... Give Up and Move... no fight, no democracy, just quit and wander off into the outskirts and take your chances there. Or leave every Sunday once you have established all the Rave Days. there must be a nice little B+B in Joco to hide out in on specific Sundays... a whole new business... could be called Escape the Raves... come to our quiet B+B. We could possibly do this, there are many who cannot and have to deal with this total intrusion and bullying. I was just hoping there might be some way to, at least, have them comply with some of the rules or don't get your permit to hold these things. Giving up is not easy!

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seems sad that this all just points to.... Give Up and Move... no fight, no democracy, just quit and wander off into the outskirts and take your chances there. Or leave every Sunday once you have established all the Rave Days. there must be a nice little B+B in Joco to hide out in on specific Sundays... a whole new business... could be called Escape the Raves... come to our quiet B+B. We could possibly do this, there are many who cannot and have to deal with this total intrusion and bullying. I was just hoping there might be some way to, at least, have them comply with some of the rules or don't get your permit to hold these things. Giving up is not easy!

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Well I don't see that any effort has yet been made to organize an opposition and petition the government. If that is done and fails then I think you could reach the conclusion that you have.

You are living in a town with virtually no graffiti precisely because some of us decided not to roll over and just take it. Why not do the same with this/these noise abusers and give it your best shot before you give up?

Obviously there are a lot of Mexicans who agree with us on this or they wouldn't be passing laws and startling to deal with it. I find it insulting to their efforts to pretend that over-amplified druggie rave music is the culture of this country. That is just so much BS. This is a recently arrived phenomenon and needs to be dealt with as the assault on community well being that it is.

Think of it as acoustic graffiti. Trash and blight. Don't just roll over and take it.

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Well I don't see that any effort has yet been made to organize an opposition and petition the government. If that is done and fails then I think you could reach the conclusion that you have.

You are living in a town with virtually no graffiti precisely because some of us decided not to roll over and just take it. Why not do the same with this/these noise abusers and give it your best shot before you give up?

Obviously there are a lot of Mexicans who agree with us on this or they wouldn't be passing laws and startling to deal with it. I find it insulting to their efforts to pretend that over-amplified druggie rave music is the culture of this country. That is just so much BS. This is a recently arrived phenomenon and needs to be dealt with as the assault on community well being that it is.

Think of it as acoustic graffiti. Trash and blight. Don't just roll over and take it.

I agree that, like graffitti, this is something that goes way beyond the "normal" level of noise and those affected shouldn't just roll over and be told that it's the culture. All night Raves in the center of town, aren't. Many people in the area aren't retired: they have to get up in the morning and go to work. .

We can't expect quiet Mexico and I am okay with the seasonal racket a block from my casa; that is traditional noise making time and if I can't deal with it.......there's the beach alternative. However, I'd prefer the noise to the heat and humidity. Ear plugs are available.

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As of November 2013, Mexico has new federal laws governing decibel limits. Whether or not those laws are enforced obviously depends on a number of factors.

We've had luck in Guadalajara with both the municipal and the federal police responding to noise complaints, but we also had the support of our local colonia organisation.

If you need to quote the federal law in Spanish to a police officer or are interested in googling for more information: "NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994 de la Ley General del Equilibrio Ecológico y la Protección al Ambiente; 8, fracciones III y IV del Reglamento Interior de la Secretaría de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales."

You can read more about it in English here http://www.saudicaves.com/mx/noise/index.html and here http://geo-mexico.com/?p=11234

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Do you have copies of the federal noise law as published in the Guad Reporter?

Did you measure the decibel level?

Did you call the enforcement officers?

Then why are you complaining/expecting something to change?

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Harry, why is the Chapala government issuing permits for events that go into illegal hours at obviously illegal noise levels? This practice started with the previous regime, will the new one put a stop to it?

Why are these events apparently being pushed into Ajijic?

Do you expect said enforcement officers to respond at midnight on a Sunday night? How is one supposed to find said enforcement officers at these times? It is pretty dicey to get the cops to come out at these times.

Do you expect said enforcement officers to go up against what appears to be a deliberate policy of encouraging and permitting Rave type events in Ajijic?

How about giving the folks a step by step guide for dealing with this kind of thing when it actually occurs, late at night and usually on weekends. Maybe we could organize some sort of training session for volunteers who are willing to confront these events.

BTW I do have a sound meter with the correct settings for measuring noise violations and will make it available as needed if a reliable process for getting enforcement response can be found. I've already offered to host a meeting of the affected to get started.

Harry is right that posting on this board isn't going to put a stop to this. Frankly, I'm skeptical that anyone will come out to enforce the noise laws in this municipio but am here to help organize petitions, protests and attempts to get enforcement. We won't know until we try.

Noise blight like what is going on here increasingly seemingly with the blessing of the Chapala government is just audio graffiti of the worst kind and I'm here to help fight it. Contact me via PM.

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