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Mexico Doesn't Apologize for Deportation

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My grandparents were racist,my parents were definitely not,I am not and neither are my children or my grand children,we are making progress but as a society we still have a ways to go.

I was very proud of my country when we elected an African- American as president,who in my opinion has done a very good job,especially considering the state of affairs when he took office and the obstructionism he has faced.

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I was lucky. I was never taught a fear of any animals including snakes and spiders and I never heard a racist word from my NY father or East Texas mother and her family. When I was a teen and heard the "N" word the first time I was baffled that people could hate others because of skin color. I didn't get it then and still don't.

"If you grew up white before the civil rights movement anywhere in the South, all grown-ups lied. They'd tell you stuff like, "Don't drink out of the colored fountain, dear, it's dirty." In the white part of town, the white fountain was always covered with chewing gum and the marks of grubby kids' paws, and the colored fountain was always clean. Children can be horribly logical." Molly Ivins

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Wow, as they say, be careful what you ask for, you may get the whole darn thing. Fortunately it's noon so I can break out the tequila and try to boil down all the fat in a couple of these posts and see what nugget of truth might expose itself.

Just for a starter, I'll add in "political" as another totally overused, abused and meaningless word in today's lexicon, anything we don't like is "political" and the paranoia is rampant and growing. But, it's going to take some work to try to cut out the politics of these posts and see if any truth actually exists there, or if in fact it is what its seems - that we're not all wired the same.

PS: somewhat back on the original subject? - I see Germany's extended hand has already been bitten and they're closing their borders in large part - that didn't take long did it, guess they never considered "if you feed them, they will come".

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Guest bennie2

european news reports w/live coverage are available, youtube is alive &well. seems that themore information that is out there, the less people will access it. it will disturb the american consenses narrative, but its all there. germany hungry austria italy england france holland: riots on the hungarian/austrian border. migrants who are all young males are violent, breaking windows in trains, busses. fighting the aid workers trying to give then food & water. pushing over the tables, just stealing & running. screaming "we want germany". mob scene. these boys are from morocco, taking advantage of europes policy. in germany, muslims sects are attacking the kurds on the streets. they have set fires in the shelters. in sweden, elderly are being evicted from their apts for the muslim migrants. these were low cost apts for older folks. in countries where they mix them them together, the elderly are attacked. this is on live coverage w/subtitles. many stations, many countries. you can see this youre own eyes. very sad. back on topic as this relates: would mexico put up w/this? no way. would the US? absolutely! why isnt the american media covering europe? figure this out. why dont expats look @ european news? its not about water fountains. (that does not seem to be the issue). mixing timeframes? repeating platitudes from 50 years have no bearing on today. (snowyo, now the shoe is on the other foot. just lettin you know).

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I see Germany's extended hand has already been bitten and they're closing their borders in large part - that didn't take long did it, guess they never considered "if you feed them, they will come".

Despite your protestations, I think you give yourself away with statements such as this, Mr. Giltner. In an attempt to distinguish fact from fiction, here's a link to today's NY Times article on the immigrant situation in Europe.

Germany Announces Emergency Border Controls Amid Migrant Crisis

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/14/world/europe/germany-emergency-measures-european-migrant-crisis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

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Guest bennie2

alex, the NYT's does have some good reads. they wont report the violence as much as the european media will. (they mentioned 700 illegal, that could be the moroccan boys who did the rioting). the artical does confirm glitners statements & mine. the numbers were correct. no argument. for everyone else: this thread is not about "racism". it is a continuation of a thread started by oldgeezer last week. the original subject was about mexicans objecting to the migrant shelter in guadalajara. reason? crime has increased. (there goes the neigborhood as they said). reminder, the central american migrants are of similar ethnic backrounds as the jardin basque residents. ok ok, maybe a bit more indian blood if you want to nitpick. same language, same religion for the most part. there was no discussion about "race" either in guadalajara or in the artical. why be obsessed w/this "R" word? yeahyeah i know y'all have been programed to just spit out words, 24/7 on usa TV 24/7 in advertising films 24/7 across college campus. instead of being in sufferable santimonious drones, why not think critically? (the mexicans arnt b.s.'ing). crime is up in near the shelter in guad. crime is way up w/the refugees in europe & US. the votes are in. the jury has made the decision. walks talks. its a duck.

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Alex, well? - I read the article and I don't see the message there, sorry if it slid right by me. I've also read reports that Iraquis etc. were buying passports to ID them as Syrian so they could "escape" the war zone. The last report I heard on the tragic drowning of the little Syrian boy in Turkey was not that they were fleeing war etc. they were actually in a safe area in Turkey and the Father wanted to get to Germany so he could be dental work done? - I know what you must be saying, but it's out there, consider it.

There was a pic on Drudge today of a flood of refugees, not a one in there was old, under nourished etc. they were all young strong men that should be fighting for the heritage and sovereignty of their countries, not going to EU for a hand out and freebees and the opportunity to bring their families - which they abandoned to make the trip I might add.

Now, here's a surprise maybe, one of the largest contributing factors in this disaster is the US, Due to our inaction and our stepping back from our former position in the world we've created this vacuum and it's a disaster. The US is always the first on the scene of a natural disaster with relief etc. In many cases we have provided assistance and stability to countries in strife either through overt intervention with aid, or sometimes less visible methods, but it stabilized areas that are now in turmoil. This is a problem born in DC by all parties and is rippling throughout the world with deadly ramifications.

Ok, talk about a brain cramp, but let's start with snoyco, he says it's political and by his post, it's obvious he sees the world through a political lens. I'm not convinced and I'm not interested in seeing the world through a political lens.

But cbviajero also seems to see it as political although he says he's not racist, his progeny are not etc. but he's proud of the fact we elected a "black" President - well, folks, that is racism (as currently defined) right out front and unabashed. He's seeing things through snoyco's political lens, he's profiled the Pres and most of us living in MX know profiling. I don't see the Pres as black or white, or any other race, I see him as a man who was/is ill equipped to be President, nothing more, nothing less and the past 7 years are documented proof of what I expected when he was elected. And, I'd be quick to point out that's not political per se, if the Reps ran a white guy so ill equipped I'd feel the same and there are several on the current pallet that match.

So, if we accept that racism is political, is the fact that I can't imagine the current (assumed) Dem front runner who is white as anything less than a rolling disaster - am I racist? - or take the secondary figure from NH, again, are you serious - am I a racist? - he's an old white guy, basically a hippie from the 60's. So, as far as racism being political, no, it's not it's an excuse for something more deeply embedded in our DNA, as humans we tend to label those of us who disagree as offensive, not different, not necessarily with bad ideas etc.. The other day one of our members called me racist, so I sent him a picture of my Confederate flag - does that confirm it or simply mean I like the colors and the history of being a "rebel" and have nothing to do with race or politics, or maybe it's just by pushback to a stupid statement.

I'd say we all need to stand back and look more deeply into the reflecting pond and see what is really driving our mouths.

PS: Bennie, by today's standards, the Guad folks are racist, so let's get real.

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Guest bennie2

yes glitner, by todays standards the guad folks are wassist. mestizo vs indian? the issue there is a clash of socio ecomonic cultural differences, as i see it. those migrants are rural. the mexicans in that area of guad are city people, many educated & professional. they behave differently. color is not the big deal. when goverments force people on each other, it becomes the balkins. very different than evolving organically. bernie is a progressive jewish socialist from brooklyn. he doesnt identify w/"old white guys". he fled when the neigborhood "changed" (then he identified). other than vacation pay/sick leave, i dont get his agenda. well meaning, but lets leave there. when the U.S. pres says R is in our DNA, that seals it. when you had starbucks promo'ing the "conversation" (the DOJ &hollywood), what do you expect from the mainstream? they think as they as they are told too, logic aside. this is as good as it gets on an expat forum. i dont get alex's point. germany is trying to do restrictions, but its not easy. they may want to close borders, but their hands are tied. "racist" is an extreme word. (but has become benign). another way to continue the old american tradition of the "witch hunt".

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The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

Good point, enough, I'll leave it with an earlier quote: "Liberalism looks smart to stupid people".

Thanks for the time.

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The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

Careful on overdoing the thinking part.

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Good point, enough, I'll leave it with an earlier quote: "Liberalism looks smart to stupid people".

Thanks for the time.

I think you are right about prejudice. People are born with it and cannot overcome it.

"There's no gentle way to put it: People who give in to racism and prejudice may simply be dumb, according to a new study that is bound to stir public controversy."
"The research finds that children with low intelligence are more likely to hold prejudiced attitudes as adults."
"Polling data and social and political science research do show that prejudice is more common in those who hold right-wing ideals that those of other political persuasions, Nosek told LiveScience."

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Meanwhile, back at the rancho.... The Mexican Senate has voted unanimously to request that the Pena Nieto government accept "as many Syrian refugees as possible." Whether or not Mexico accepts any refugees is the executive's call.

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Guest bennie2

joco, not true! the standards have lowered tremendously for colleges in the last 30 years. standards for careers are based upon quotas, race. there are rebublicans who are stanford/yale grads living in palm beach. there are double digit (IQ) dem voters smashing windows, screaming obcentities. just updating as time froze for some of you. there have always been brilliant so called "rightwing" folks of all races. it's not part of the current political landscape. (since the 60's). if one doesnt agree w/the partyline they are called uncle thoms or what ever. fill the blanks, ill take a nap. (i have been called every name in the book). today, you can not get a job @ a university (& most media outlets) unless you are very far left & follow "the script". you wont work as much in hollywood. best sellers are the answer for the anti establishment. your stereotypes dont fly. intelligence is not based upon political party or voting, regardless what maddow/ kohn or other high paid mouthpieces tell you. see my examples above, its clear. (EDITED for clarity)

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Guest bennie2

i keep seeing photos of the so called wall on the mexican southern border. do we live paraelle universe? there is a wall. so who is lying here? or its a really thick fence. going back to twitter to follow some mexican online papers. want to see if the syrian thing is published in english. checking hastags. (EDITED, additional info)

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Quote from Bennie:

"we should be glad that chapala.com has allowed politics. the hits must be enormous. major break though for a board that was hesitant to critisize a restaurant."

TO THE MODS: Has there been a change in policy on this board that now allows vitriolic political discussions? I thought that was not allowed, but here we go again with another thread way out of bounds and over the top with some of the most extreme posts I've ever heard on any web board, EVER?

What is going on with what used to be a moderated board? Have any of the chief mods actually read this stuff?

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Forgive me for sticking one toe back in, but only to remind several folks, like the previous post, ahem, of 5-7 years ago on this board and others where the previous discussion has been quite reserved and I could name names, but then you know who you are and I'm sure your memory is as good as mine.

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Forgive me for sticking one toe back in, but only to remind several folks, like the previous post, ahem, of 5-7 years ago on this board and others where the previous discussion has been quite reserved and I could name names, but then you know who you are and I'm sure your memory is as good as mine.

I'd say it's a whole foot or maybe both feet, :unsure: but It doesn't matter who used to do what and when and over what issues:..............this discussion is by no means "reserved", since it could be summed up by not so subtle suggestions that the other point of view is ignorant or just plain stupid, and furthermore, it's about politics, pure and simple: both left and right wing. That's not supposed to be happening and both you and I know it, since we've both been members for a very long time.

Some members are having a real field day with their vitriol, and it doesn't matter to me which side they are on. Equal opportunity objection to it. ^_^

,

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Guest bennie2

gringal, everyone here has behaved well. "virtolic"? no way. decent folks, exchanging opinions. sometimes heated, sometime ridiculous. no curse words. sarcastic yes. a bit edgy, yes. minor insults? ok it happened. sometimes politics are allowed here. we did it the day of the boston bombing. if this subject is not your cup of tea, dont click on. if you want banning, attacks, surpression, go to TOB octagon. in all due respect, dont censor those who have different opinions, or have a different style of communication. if the mods want to close this they will. in the meantime, take advantage of democracy. no one is forcing you to read. have some self control. use "ignore feature" w/those posters you dont like. freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. for the last 3 days i really feel like a true american. my thanks to all of you for the restraint you have showed. we have managed to pull this of w/out a controlling mod. (and thankyou chapala realestate).

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Wonder what the record is for number of replies before a thread has been closed? I think bennie is correct, there has been less "ugly" comments than there were a year ago. Everyone is getting older and wiser, and maybe a few are realizing that this is not life or death for us. No one here will ever change anyone's opinion, no matter how many sources you cite, nor how many posters agree with you. That is a fact, and many of us realize that, so just have some fun, and don't lose any sleep.

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Oh Hud, gosh, if you could see the posts from that period I mentioned and from some of the people complaining most loudly now you'd have to catch your breath. There were some numbers of views you wouldn't believe and some more or less "put on" confrontations that drew many many views, but that is the past and now we are here. None of us have changed our stripes or our beliefs, but life goes on.

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Guest bennie2

the two most santimonious social justice warriors have been outed. the masks came off. they slipped. i waited for this moment. the thread is about finding efraim gonzolez (mex section). relates to so much of the dialoque these past 2 days.

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This board doesn't allow partisan political discussion. It does allow general discussion of governmental actions and policies that affect expats. We've tried to be a little more liberal in letting these discussions go on so long as you all address topics and not personalities.

I've been on a three day motorcycle ride south of Patzcuaro and haven't been watching. I see things got a little out of hand so we'll call a moratorium on these immigration discussions for now.

BTW, that area is REALLY beautiful. We stayed at Lake Zirahuen, highly recommended.

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