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Car in Mexico when applying for Residency


Zeb

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It hinges upon the “stay“ in Mexico. Therefore, departing Mexico voids the TIP. to stay is to remain; not to come and go, as is permitted for Mexican citizens. A foreigner‘s FMM Visitante permit becomes void upon departure, ending his stay and making the TIP invalid.

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Often, a Google translation does not help clarify anything. This is an example. Alan, I thought you were "fluent" in Spanish. If so, this would be a perfect time to demonstrate that. Or anyone else who "claims" to be fluent. If you can't translate these rules, you are far from "fluent".

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It hinges upon the “stay“ in Mexico. Therefore, departing Mexico voids the TIP. to stay is to remain; not to come and go, as is permitted for Mexican citizens. A foreigner‘s FMM Visitante permit becomes void upon departure, ending his stay and making the TIP invalid.

That is the way the rules state the validity of a foreigner´s TIP as far as I see it. Once you are not legally "staying" in Mexico your TIP is invalid and your TIP should be turned in before leaving Mexico to secure your deposit and follow the letter of the law.

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Often, a Google translation does not help clarify anything. This is an example. Alan, I thought you were "fluent" in Spanish. If so, this would be a perfect time to demonstrate that.

Not fluent but read well and understand well and above intermediate in speaking, darn verbs.

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Does anyone care when I exit Mexico with the TIP still on my car? No.

Does anyone care if I enter Mexico with the TIP already on my car? No.

I come and go as I please and turn in the FMM and TIP before expiring. I then, next time I am headed south, get the FMM and TIP for another six months. Illegal? No. Been doing it for many years, even when I lived in Mexico. In all those years has anyone cared? No again.

Your results may vary.

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Fortunately, since March of 2013, there is no dispute over Aduana policy or Aduana law on this. A TIP expires when the associated INM Visitante or Residente Temporal visa permit is cancelled, surrendered, or expires. When visitors or tourists fly out of Mexico, we surrender our INM FMM visitors visa to be allowed to get onto the plane. This act makes the associated TIP automatically expired.

This has been both Aduana law and consistent Aduana policy across Mexicosince 2013.

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Does anyone care when I exit Mexico with the TIP still on my car? No.

Does anyone care if I enter Mexico with the TIP already on my car? No.

I come and go as I please and turn in the FMM and TIP before expiring. I then, next time I am headed south, get the FMM and TIP for another six months. Illegal? No. Been doing it for many years, even when I lived in Mexico. In all those years has anyone cared? No again.

Your results may vary.

Actually, Aduana, SAT, and Hacienda do care, and even INM gets involved sometimes.

If we get in an accident while abroad and the car is wrecked, we're unable to return the car to the border to surrender the TIP properly.

This causes the TIP holder big problems with Aduana, Hacienda, and SAT. It took one friend of ours over 2 years of hassles with Aduana and SAT DF offices to resolve just this problem, and they were not allowed to bring any vehicles into Mexico during that time, and they had problems applying for a Residente visa due to the unresolved TIP problems.

Aduana and SAT are very concerned about foreign-plated vehicles being left in Mexico as a part of cross-border auto theft rings, and they're concerned about people illegally secretly selling their foreign-plated cars in Mexico, so following the rules may save us a lot of hassles.

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Actually, Aduana, SAT, and Hacienda do care, and even INM gets involved sometimes.

If we get in an accident while abroad and the car is wrecked, we're unable to return the car to the border to surrender the TIP properly.

This causes the TIP holder big problems with Aduana, Hacienda, and SAT. It took one friend of ours over 2 years of hassles with Aduana and SAT DF offices to resolve just this problem, and they were not allowed to bring any vehicles into Mexico during that time, and they had problems applying for a Residente visa due to the unresolved TIP problems.

Aduana and SAT are very concerned about foreign-plated vehicles being left in Mexico as a part of cross-border auto theft rings, and they're concerned about people illegally secretly selling their foreign-plated cars in Mexico, so following the rules may save us a lot of hassles.

Dude, I follow/followed the rules. Does anyone care? No.

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PS snowyco,

Your straw-man argument of being denied a TIP because you didn't clear a previous TIP is not valid in the OP's situation or in my perpetual tourist experience.

Two thoughts:

It's not a "straw man" false-hypothetical point, it is reality.

People who have wrecked their TIP vehicles while driving in the USA have had significant problems with both Aduana and INM directly due to taking their TIP vehicle out of Mexico without canceling the TIP.

Second, did I misunderstand that you drive your TIP vehicle out of Mexico without cancelling the TIP?

Anyone who drives their TIP vehicle in the USA faces minor but real risks, including "perpetual tourists".

We're all free to choose to follow the laws, or not.

Some readers prefer to avoid even possible consequences, and prefer to know and follow the law.

I hope you continue to have fine fun travels in and out of Mexico.

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Gee, I am a criminal. NOT!

To pop the hypothesis offered. One can enter on a six month FMM and get their motorhome a ten year TIP. No way are you expected to turn in the TIP when you exit the country.

The information offered in this thread is a leading cause of desiring to hire a lawyer to handle it.

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Is a troll like a forum gadfly, only inferior?

CHILLIN, on 05 Aug 2015 - 1:25 PM, said:

You have heard from a Mexican Lawyer and a Professional Facilitator - both highly experienced, with excellent connections, and fully bi-lingual. If you need a second, or third opinion - go to another lawyer or facilitator of equal calibre, not the internet gadflies.

Best advice yet.

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Is a troll like a forum gadfly, only inferior?

CHILLIN, on 05 Aug 2015 - 1:25 PM, said:

You have heard from a Mexican Lawyer and a Professional Facilitator - both highly experienced, with excellent connections, and fully bi-lingual. If you need a second, or third opinion - go to another lawyer or facilitator of equal calibre, not the internet gadflies.

Best advice yet.

.

This sounds good, but not all "professional" legal advice is equal, and newbies to the expat forums can't tell the players without giving them a score-card.

Some lawyers, like Spencer / Intercasa give superb accurate reliable advice.

Other non-licensed "professionals" with no legal training and no certifications have posted things that have repeatedly been legally incorrect and have been not so reliable at times.

It's best to stick with information based in the laws, as the areas of immigration and vehicle imports have had a rough few years of trying to track INM and Aduana legal changes, especially since the Nov. 2012 INM changes.

Spencer / Intercasa has been regularly posting on both INM and Aduana law changes since then, (both here and on Mexconnect.com) to help expats across Mexico. Spencer has accurately tracked and reported both the Mexican laws and described how they were being applied.

Compare Spencer's offerings to several years of "Sonia"'s posts, as in this thread where she claims fear mongering, and she/he introduces issues of cars supposedly being confiscated - when no one else even mentioned vehicle confiscations.

Sonia shares her internet forum accounts with her husband, John, a Canadian. Because of this, some "Sonia" posts are written by Sonia, who reads and speaks Spanish well and has long experience working with her local and often quirky SMA INM and Aduana offices, while other "Sonia" posts are written by John, a Canadian who has a limited command of Spanish when reading and understanding Mexican DOF published law and John has far less experience in working with INM and Aduana, which makes big variations in the advice that they give together under the "Sonia" avatar.

Examples of accurate advice vs inaccurate "professional" advice. When someone asked about Visitors visa holders being allowed to work, and then whether Residente Temporal visa holders were allowed to work in Mexico, Sonia/John posted multiple replies in 2013 that only Residente Permanentes had legal permission to work. (not true at all) The Sonia/John "professional" advice posts were very wrong about that, as both Visitors visas and Residente Temporal visas could and can include permission to work.

The same thing happened with Sonia/John's "professional" advice on on Aduana Permisos de Importación de Vehiculos (Temporary Import Permits, TIPs), as Sonia/John alternately posted that they were told by "the SMA Consul" that "the Consul" had "talked with the head of Aduana in DF" and claimed that he was told that Residente Temporal visa holders could not have foreign-plated TIP vehicles.

When other posters pointed out that SMA does not have a Consul nor a Consulate, (just a local civilian employee), and when the supposed "SMA Consul" aka civilian employee, personally wrote that he did not talk with the head of Aduana in DF, that instead he had talked only with clerks on the Aduana/SAT phone help-line, John/Sonia posted very angry replies, even though they were wrong on all aspects in their previous related posts.

As a part of Sonia/John's professional car import business, John/Sonia went on to later post that Americans do not have to formally export their US-plated cars using the required CBP process (when we permanently import US-titled vehicles into Mexico). This was another piece of their publicly posted "professional" legal advice that was completely opposite from published law.

Continue on to yet additional multiple past posts, where Sonia/John promised that their "paper-only" car import process was guaranteed to work, and that they would return all monies if the imports didn't work. This spring, even after 6 months of promises/guarantees, Sonia/John still kept the $$ for multiple client's vehicles applications for "paper only imports" - imports that did not work, Sonia/John posted repeatedly that there was nothing they could do, as their paper-only imports were completely blocked and being held as a part of Aduana's investigations into fraudulent transfers of foreign vehicles into Mexico. There is at least one person who says in PMs that he is still waiting (10 months later) to get either their $$ or their pedimento from Sonia/John, but this client is afraid to come forward as it may rock the boat with him ultimately getting reimbursed.

I have not said that Sonia/John have done anything illegal. Their joint history of internet forum posts since late 2012 have been of mixed quality and mixed accuracy, with some posts offering superb legal advice, while others gave advice that was completely the opposite of US and Mexican law.

This is why we should be careful of advice offered on the internet, unless you know their histories.

Some histories, like Spencer's / Intercasa's have been consistently very good, helpful, and accurate.

Once we have the information, we are each free to decide for ourselves.

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From reading these posts, it is very clear to me that Snowy is extremely jealous of Sonia's (and at times, Spencer's) knowledge of how things are done in Mexico. He has consistently tried to put Sonia down, and consistently has been shown to be incorrect in his statements about her. But, he continues on. Sonia has been extremely helpful to many here, as has Spencer. You will find that each has complimented the other. This is the only Forum that Snowy has not been banned (yet) from, and he has no other place to hassle people. Poor fellow.

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From reading these posts, it is very clear to me that Snowy is extremely jealous of Sonia's (and at times, Spencer's) knowledge of how things are done in Mexico. He has consistently tried to put Sonia down, and consistently has been shown to be incorrect in his statements about her. But, he continues on. Sonia has been extremely helpful to many here, as has Spencer. You will find that each has complimented the other.

This is the only Forum that Snowy has not been banned (yet) from, and he has no other place to hassle people. Poor fellow.

.

People can search both Chapala.com and Mexconnect.com to find John's and Sonia's years of posts of incorrect legal advice, or they can believe whatever they choose.

As to the false accusations of jealousy or me being banned from forums, they're hilarious..

Sticking with truth and facts: I have had the same single individual continuously active ~ unbanned ~ unsuspended ~ accounts for between the past 3 years and 8 years on 8 different forums around Mexico, so, again, we see that some people choose to post their personal guesses and biased personal opinions as if they were fact.

Re imagined personal sins, I tend toward gluttony. Envy and jealousy must belong to someone else? :)

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I feel as though I opened a can of worms here.

I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless. I realize each person is trying to help which is what the forum is all about.

Here's a question strictly sticking to my original posting. As I am not fluent in Spanish, does the TIP actually say that it expires upon the Tourist's departure from Mexico or the vehicle leaving Mexico?

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That's the law. If you can slip through without getting nailed, feel lucky.

Have you gone to the consulate yet?

I am assuming you are asking about the Mexican Consulate here in Texas. The answer is no as they have no responded to my request for an appointment yet. Probably, I should not have relied on e-mail as my contact person from last year may no longer be there. I will end up calling, however, as we are returning next week, I don't know if there will be sufficient time to get everything done.

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I am assuming you are asking about the Mexican Consulate here in Texas. The answer is no as they have no responded to my request for an appointment yet. Probably, I should not have relied on e-mail as my contact person from last year may no longer be there. I will end up calling, however, as we are returning next week, I don't know if there will be sufficient time to get everything done.

Some of the Consulates are not making appointments nor answering personal emails. You may have to go in person. Arriving earlier in the AM works best, to be near of at the front of that day's applicants.

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Relying on emails to communicate with any Mexican business entity, especially the Mexican Government, is seldom a good idea, especially for someone who cannot communicate in Spanish.

All the businesses and friends now use the Smart phone application WhatsApp here now in SLP and consider E-Mails old fashioned.

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Some of the Consulates are not making appointments nor answering personal emails. You may have to go in person. Arriving earlier in the AM works best, to be near of at the front of that day's applicants.

At our location, as of last year, they did not accept walk ins. Possibly that could have changed.

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Relying on emails to communicate with any Mexican business entity, especially the Mexican Government, is seldom a good idea, especially for someone who cannot communicate in Spanish.

I had no problems with e-mails with them last year, but possibly things have changed. They do speak English in Texas.

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