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Notario #2?? buying a house

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In need of some "general" info about buying a house. When a property listing says, "must close with Notario #2," what exactly (or approximately) does that mean?

Gracias for any enlightenment on this subject or on life in general if your tag happens to be "Travis." :P:P

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That means the seller is specifying the settlement attorney as part of the deal. Normally the buyer does.

I wouldn't see this as a deal breaker.

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Notarios are the only ones able to close on real estate. They are listed by number. The seller and/or agency prefers the integrity and/or professionalism of Notario # 2.

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It means that the seller prefers to use notary number 2. Ask why. Any notaries can do it. I would be suspicious of his reasons and would try for another notary. When some people sell they want the selling price to be listed formally much lower than it is. This can benefit the seller re capital gains but can cause problems for the buyer when he wants to sell that property later.

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Several people recommended that I use Notario #2. As a result thereof, I have used him on several occasions and highly recommend him.

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Hola. Generally, in my experience, it means that the seller has received counseling from that notary regarding capital gains taxes. As Mainecoons says above, the buyer (because he pays the closing costs and is most concerned about how the new deed is written) almost always chooses the notario. The thing is, each notario uses their own criteria for calculating capital gains or for who they will give a capital gains exemption. Also, some notarios are more skilled than others with using different strategies (donating to a family member, having a special appraisal done, etc) that can mitigate capital gains obligations.

So, if the seller feels comfortable with a capital gains estimate from a notario, that is the most likely reason that they would insist on a specific notary. As a buyer, this should not be an issue for you, if you can ascertain that the notary is indeed competent and trustworthy. The key for the buyer is that the proper purchase price is recorded, that your names and personal info are correct, that your beneficiaries are correctly included, that the meets and bounds are correct, and that the transcribed no liens certificate shows that the property is free and clear. The notario will be individually responsible for a incorrect interpretation of capital gains rules, not the buyer.

I personally, as can my clients who have closed with Notary 2, give highest recommendations to him.

Suerte!

Thomas

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Buyer has the right to choose and should have papers checked out by another to see if there are merely trying to help their buddy #2 get some business or is it a situation that no other notary will do and have future negative effects for the buyer.

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It means that the seller prefers to use notary number 2. Ask why. Any notaries can do it. I would be suspicious of his reasons and would try for another notary. When some people sell they want the selling price to be listed formally much lower than it is. This can benefit the seller re capital gains but can cause problems for the buyer when he wants to sell that property later.

.

"Any notaries can do it. ... I would be suspicious of his reasons and would try for another notary."

This view fits a Buyer's perspective, but it may be very far from what works well for Sellers.

Since the gains taxes, the allowed exemptions, the allowed deductions, and the ways the Seller's taxes are calculated depend on the personal opinions and personal discretion of each Notario, then the choice of Notario can mean the difference between the Seller having to pay $0 in gains taxes, or $100,000 in gains taxes, versus having to pay as much as $1,000,000 pesos on the same home sale.

When the Buyer forces their Notario onto the Seller, the Seller can either benefit, or get taken to the cleaners depending on the quality and knowledge of the Notario. There are really bad Notarios out there who ignore the current ISR tax codes.

As a Seller, I would reserve the right to reject any of the Buyer's Notarios who don't follow the ISR.

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Please stop referring to Notarios as "notaries," there is a huge difference

Plurals from my dictionary;

notary=notaries

notario=notaries

Since we are writing in English that is what I used. I realize there can be a difference between a notary and a notario.

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We have used Notario #2 (Luis Enrique Ramos Bustillos) twice (both as a purchaser and as a seller) and have been extremely impressed with the professional manner in which he handles the transactions.

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La oficina = Notaria

Persona Fem. = notaria

Persona Masc. = notario

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Notario number 2 is a good and honest notario. The notarios are a mix of real estate, estate planning lawyers and title companies, nothing todo with notaries and notaries is not a good translation for notario.

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Sellers have everything to gain and buyer everything to lose when dealing with notarios. Buyers have the right to use their notary to protect their interests. Seller already owns property and if they feel that they should not pay capital gains then let them make that a contingency in the offer so that the buyer can use their notary and protect their rights but also not force the seller to use an ignorant one who may not know how the capital gains laws apply to foreigners where the seller would pay for that ignorance.

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A few years ago, it was common to write deeds with prices that were but a fraction of the actual sale price. This reduced the closing costs for the buyer and taxes for the seller. Now, I believe that the law has changed and notarios will only use the actual sale price, which creates a huge capital gains liability for sellers with minimized values. Sellers can, however, be exempted from capital gains on their principal residence once every five years, and I assume that the seller in this case has received assurances from notario #2 that he would be eligible.

As mentioned above, it could make a huge difference for the seller if another notario was used and the capital gains exemption refused.

Understand that it is your right to choose the notario as the buyer; but the seller might refuse to sell if your chosen notario will not grant the exemption.

Pete

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Some final observations about who chooses the Notario: Depending on where you live and the circumstances of the ownership, properties in the border and coastal zones that require Fideicomisos for foreign ownership can be forced to use the Bank's/Fideicomiso's Notario by the terms of the Fideicomiso.

Further, properties that are secured by a mortgage do sometimes have legal stipulations that the mortgage holder (bank) picks the Notario.

Also note that various Mexican legal websites do not report any published legal rule or statute requiring the Buyer's choice of Notario. They generally say the typical custom is for the Buyer to choose, which is not a formal legal requirement. ... (?)

The question of providing a legal citation for the supposed "Buyer's right" has been asked on this webboard several times, but the people claiming "Buyer's right" have not (yet?) reported any ISR or other citation to document their belief.

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"buying a house. When a property listing says, "must close with Notario #2," what exactly (or approximately) does that mean?"

It means if you want to buy the house you need to use notario 2. It's a condition of sale. Take ot or leave it. In reality you are right to question this request as it could seem suspicious causing you to walk away regardless. The other reality is if #2 is louis enrique you will be dealing with the best imho. In fact I have sold a house with the exact proviso and no hidden agenda because I was not prepared to play with a personal friend/notaro of a tapatio buyer.

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"I am told" some notaro's will close if the sellers has the old FM2, and providing the sale is not over 3,000,000 with no capital gains? This could be the sellers preference for choosing...As long as you have the correct selling price identified on the paper work, I see no problem

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Gracias for any enlightenment on this subject or on life in general if your tag happens to be "Travis." :P:P

Jajaja. Well, life in general is a lot like life in Des Moines...

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But seriously….

Hola. Generally, in my experience, it means that the seller has received counseling from that notary regarding capital gains taxes. As Mainecoons says above, the buyer (because he pays the closing costs and is most concerned about how the new deed is written) almost always chooses the notario. The thing is, each notario uses their own criteria for calculating capital gains or for who they will give a capital gains exemption. Also, some notarios are more skilled than others with using different strategies (donating to a family member, having a special appraisal done, etc) that can mitigate capital gains obligations.

So, if the seller feels comfortable with a capital gains estimate from a notario, that is the most likely reason that they would insist on a specific notary. As a buyer, this should not be an issue for you, if you can ascertain that the notary is indeed competent and trustworthy. The key for the buyer is that the proper purchase price is recorded, that your names and personal info are correct, that your beneficiaries are correctly included, that the meets and bounds are correct, and that the transcribed no liens certificate shows that the property is free and clear. The notario will be individually responsible for a incorrect interpretation of capital gains rules, not the buyer.

I personally, as can my clients who have closed with Notary 2, give highest recommendations to him.

Suerte!

Thomas

….EXACTLY what he said.

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