wilkie Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I will be driving to Ajijic in my 2003 ford ranger pickup, a extended cab in good shape everything works fine. I would be better off selling it here( Missouri) and fly into GDL. If I drive it down what do I need to have as paperwork in order to sell it? Thanks Wilkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canmex87 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I will be driving to Ajijic in my 2003 ford ranger pickup, a extended cab in good shape everything works fine. I would be better off selling it here( Missouri) and fly into GDL. If I drive it down what do I need to have as paperwork in order to sell it? Thanks Wilkie If its a Missouri plated vehicle you can't sell it in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 You cannot sell a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico. So, you may want to consider selling it in the USA. However, if you need it for your trip down, to carry goods, then do that; but, plan to drive it back up to the USA to dispose of it. The only other option would be to use someone like Playaboy (on this forum), if he is interested in taking it off your hands, driving it north, getting your sticker off and receipted, then activating the “sale north of the border“ and reselling it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Wilkie, keeping your US plated truck in Mexico IS a viable option for you to consider but only for a short number of years (3-4) and also only if your intentions are to get a Residente Temporal visa as opposed to a Residente Permanente visa. Only Temporal visas allow the US plated car. Permanente has some advantages over Temporal.... don't have to 'fool with the government' annually like one does with the Temporal... and some other things if you own/sell your casa but certainly not required for a while at least. There used to be a ton of US plated cars but 'recent' changes in immigration are causing folks to have to take their cars back into the US (or Canada) and sell them. Many people are just 'bitting the bullet' and purchasing a Mexican plated car (you don't even have to have a Mexican driver's license to do this!). Others are staying Temporal for a few more years to see if anything changes (not likely most say) because they don't want to sell a perfectly good car NOB, buy a Mexican plated one, and then find out a couple of years later that "Mexico is not for them". If that were to happen, one must then sell the Mexican plated car in Mexico, somehow get back to the US with their belongings AND then purchase another US plated car. Only you know your circumstances but there are options available...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 You can sell it. If don't believe me call Aduana. Lic. Karen Villaseñor 01-55-5802-0000 x 46889 Administracion Central — 01-55-5802-2069 They recommend using a Carta Responsiva form. FYI, you do not need a PR visa to sell property as it applies to tax, only TR visa. And, after first year, a TR visa is normally renewed for 3 years so not a big deal. And, many consulates will never issue a pre-approved PR visa as told by many clients. saludos Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 "You can sell it. If don't believe me call Aduana." Sonia don't be coy, why don't you just tell us what Lic. Karen Villaseñor would tell me if I called..... because I don't speak Spanish. What it sounds like that you are suggesting is that , contrary to everything we have been told, and contrary to what the TIP (program) says, I can just sell my US plated (probably) NAFTA vehicle inside Mexico to (probably) anyone I wish. If this is true, what law or ruling does this relate to? Can the buyer get a factura and plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I think the system Sonia suggests is one where someone else assumes responsibility for your car, but as far as Mexico is concerned, it is still yours. I see that as a problem. We need more details, Sonia, legal details re: Aduana and INM status. At present, it sounds too fuzzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 RickS don't you be rude. I told you what they said.... you can sell it and use a Carta Responsiva, 2009 and older. Been there and done that just as they said several times. You simply sign over title if US or registration if Canadian and of course you loose deposit. That is common sense unless some one drives it tot he border and turns in TIP. The buyer can register an US titled vehicle in Clay county and obtain car permit on line have have sent to them. For some appears to be difficult to understand. And, as I said call Aduana and ask. if you do not speak Spanish then have someone who does. i am sure most have someone who speaks Spanish. Or buyer can nationalize. Or buyer can obtain an UCD permit or similar in states with with such a program. And yes Rick when I started nationalizing through amparos in June 2013, you, Linda Warren, Snowyco aka Steve and others since then tried very hard to discredit me, called me names, said I was a liar, dishonest, and many unfounded rebuttals, etc. Well, 89 cars now nationalized including non-NAFTA. For the last two non-NAFTA we were black mailed for approx 15000 pesos yet my clients were simply asked to be patient and none were asked to pay extra. All 89 which I legally completed obtained their state registration and state plates. Every process was legal within the laws of Mexico as per amparos. Yet, the same people never attacked those who committed fraud when "nationalizing" through the GDL airport in which tens of thousands of dollars were stolen, lawyers retained and now cars illegal. I post based on my experiences not based on rumor, myths, etc. If you do not like the information ignore it. If not enough information, research it yourself. I am not your research person. RV you are not even in Mexico but you too can call and ask. Nothing to do with INM. Buen Fin Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Sorry you took my Post as being rude. Was not my intention and I don't believe the Post was such. Sonia, you have been pretty 'free' with information on several forums about how to successfully do things related to vehicles in Mexico. Some of that has gained you a lot of questioning rebuttals, some of it not very kind. But, to my knowledge no one has ever suggested that one who has a TIP car in Mexico can just 'sell it' and forget what that program requires of one. Not legally in any respect. So, again I will ask... if you have knowledge of how I can just sell my NAFTA TIP vehicle here in Mexico saving my deposit and not have any worries that this sale will not potentially come back to bite me sooner or later, that information would be pretty valuable to a lot of folks (in the past and still into the future). If you are not willing to subject yourself to those who might 'jump your case' here, then you probably should not post things like you did. If you don't want to Post it, send me a PM about how this is possible. I won't divulge anything that you don't want made public. RickS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryS Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well said Sonia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well, yes, but that 1:06 Post has been heavily edited after my later 1:56 Post making my Post seemingly asking questions that had already been answered. And, just to set the record straight, Sonia or John have including me in with the pack who have written to discredit, etc, Sonia here and elsewhere when nothing could be farther from the truth. I've been accused of shilling for her because I was doing just the opposite of what is claimed here. Too bad memories are so short. Too bad a supporter has been thrown to the wolves. Too bad, Sonia. RickS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slainte39 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Although a lot of good information has been posted by all parties on these various threads about how to handle the foreign vehicle situation, I think the shameless self promotion by someone engaging in a lucrative business that has all kinds of pitfalls, is what is disturbing to many. Post after post advertising the contact information for such business partially disguised as information posts and selling oneself as the all knowing expert of such endeavors is what is most troubling. It seems that adding to that number of 89 is the paramount goal through the auspices of chapala.com. Such activity should be confined to their own web page or blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 So Sonia catches heat because she saw that misinformation was being posted (yet again) and encourages people to contact the direct source, and gives up that source, complete with contact info. In my book, that is what is called "helping people help themselves". These car importing problems are caused by people becoming immigrants/permanent residents to Mexico. Albeit some are being forced to become immigrants way before they expected, or anticipated, but there it is. Shouldn't a new immigrant, to a Spanish speaking country, with a very different bureaucratic culture, a very different legal system, be expected to do their best to adapt and learn these new ways? To hire a facilitator or a translator for everything up to and including tying a shoelace is absurd, no way to learn, and disrespectful to the good people of Mexico. Yes, legalizing a foreign plated vehicle can be difficult, it requires someone experienced, who knows the system, speaks the language (including culture). Would such a person give up those hard won skills for free? Of course not. But that is what is constantly demanded from Spencer and Sonia on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't know whether anyone has ever definitively figured this out, but.... How is a TIP, within the bowels of some Mexican authority's record keeping system, 'associated' with a particular vehicle? Or is it not the vehicle that is associated but the owner's Passport # .... or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It seems that adding to that number of 89 is the paramount goal through the auspices of chapala.com. Such activity should be confined to their own web page or blog. That supposed "89" hasn't been added to in almost a year. Good luck using Sonia/John/coyote/facilitator services to nationalize your vehicle thru a campesino program in Guanajuato, the amparos they used expired quite a while ago,but that hasn't stopped their blatant advertising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Aduana says you cannot sell the vehicle in Mexico, on the back of the permits you need to sign where you accept it is forbidden to sell the vehicle in Mexico. Also, the carta responsiva is only as good as the solvency of the person that signs it. You would have to sue that person for indemnity. How many poor people are going to write you a check or give you cash to protect you when they cannot pay for damages or an accident and the injured parties come looking for you? This is the huge danger of selling junk or poorly functioning vehicles to domestic workers, the desire to get 5,000 pesos for your vehicle could cost you your freedom or hundreds of thousands of pesos. I mean that carta responsiva is like their promise to pay you hundreds of thousands of pesos, if they can do that then there is less risk. The only way out is to sell to another foreigner where we get them an import permit in their name but you would still have a car on your record and lose your deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't know whether anyone has ever definitively figured this out, but.... How is a TIP, within the bowels of some Mexican authority's record keeping system, 'associated' with a particular vehicle? Or is it not the vehicle that is associated but the owner's Passport # .... or something else? The VIN and the importers Passport number identify both the vehicle, many of its parts, and the temporary importer. They reside in a computer system and are instantly available to authrities of Aduana/Banjercito; maybe others too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Aduana says you cannot sell the vehicle in Mexico, on the back of the permits you need to sign where you accept it is forbidden to sell the vehicle in Mexico. Also, the carta responsiva is only as good as the solvency of the person that signs it. Firstly, the Aduana completely changed that contract I signed, without permission or due notice. That contract is null and void. Secondly, the need for a signed release of liability is the standard in Canada and the U.S. as well. It is no different in Mexico. Without this document, used cars would never be sold. http://usedcarsandtrucks.com/Cars_for_Sale_and_the_Release_of_Liability.asp Thirdly, on Monday morning call the lawyer at Aduana and tell her how you, and some gentlemen members of the Ajijic Curmudgeon Society, think she is wrong. Let us know how that goes. (edit: Spencer is not a curmudgeon, just a tired new daddy!) Fourthly, Sonia has already told us how to remove an outstanding TIP, she knows where and how to do it in Guanajuato, but thinks they will do it at Aduana, Guadalajara Airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Aduana says you cannot sell the vehicle in Mexico, on the back of the permits you need to sign where you accept it is forbidden to sell the vehicle in Mexico. Also, the carta responsiva is only as good as the solvency of the person that signs it. You would have to sue that person for indemnity. Thanks for the clarification. Sonia/John should do their homework before posting bad advice that could get people in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 "The only way out is to sell to another foreigner where we get them an import permit in their name but you would still have a car on your record and lose your deposit." Thanks Spencer. Do you (not) see a problem, other than losing $200-$400 in deposit, of having one's car still registered with a TIP when (maybe) you are Residente Permanente? Is your method 'sanctioned' by Aduana or El Gov somehow? If there are 'now' two folks with the same VIN# vehicle registered with a TIP, is this not a potential problem to one or both? Guess I just don't understand how this works (and, no, I'm not asking Spencer nor Sonia to divulge their contacts wherein legitimate fees are earned as they should be). If this method has no 'gotchas', either real or imagined, then I can start telling folks who want me to buy their car and remove it from Mexico that they can save all that grief and loss value by just advertising it for sale in Mexico to another gringo there (as I suspect that this cannot be done with a Mexican National, no?) and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 My way is not necessarily sanctioned but is a work around where the new owner is able to legally drive and if anybody checks they will be the one who took out the most recent import permit and also will be able to insure the vehicle. If you wanted to sell to a Mexican national they would have to be a resident in the US to get a 6 month permit or get them a retorno seguro and they could take it to the border and into the US and sell or give to family there, in all cases make sure you notify the DMV of the sale so that you arent on the hook. My point with a release of liability is that it is only as good as the signers solvency and in the US most insurance companies insure you for 30 days when you get another car while in Mexico that isnt the case for foreign plated cars so these release agreements have a greater chance of becoming an issue, specifically if the purchaser cant register the car in their name nor buy insurance. Most will crash and flee the scene unless they are too injured to do so. FYI the dates of import permits I have copies of where sale is prohibited are from 2008 to 2014, look on the back side right side about 1/2 of the way down. They make you sign the bottom agreeing to those terms. Also will some lady on the phone bail you our of jail if something happens of give you a specific permission letter to protect you? Talk is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The leaders of the UCD,the campesino organization that sonia/john used for "nationalizing" vehicles are currently under investigation for fraud...buyer beware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 My point with a release of liability is that it is only as good as the signers solvency and in the US most insurance companies insure you for 30 days when you get another car while in Mexico that isnt the case for foreign plated cars so these release agreements have a greater chance of becoming an issue, specifically if the purchaser cant register the car in their name nor buy insurance. Most will crash and flee the scene unless they are too injured to do so. But following this logic, if carta responsiva can be selectively ignored, and any previous owners on the title could be found culpable, ANY used car bought or sold in Mexico would be subject to this risk. No one would dare purchase a used vehicles. Only brand new, then drive them until they are scrapped. This is no where close to what is happening out there. You would have to make sure the insurance is cancelled immediately (possibly mentioned in the carta responsiva) and the bill of sale and carta were registered immediately - maybe hiring a facilitator to accompany the new owner to the correct offices to make sure it was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The carta responsiva is simply a promise, not a true bill of sale. As I see it, the ownership does not really change. I would not touch that procedure with a ten foot pole. Also: Think about the matter of selling your US license plates in a foreign country, to be used in that country....probably not a good idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Both are sort of right, the best protection is to have a change of ownership which for foreign plated cars can only be done when purchased by another foreigner as the new foreigner would get a new TIP and then the carta responsiva wouldnt matter as the new owner would be the one with car registered in their name and insurance hopefully. A Mexican national on the other hand would not be able to legally drive the car around town (except for rare cases) so then the car would be in the old owners name in the databases and the only defense the prior owner would have is saying he sold it (illegally) and then trying to find the new owner to indemnify him and repay any of his attorney fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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