What do you pay for utilities?

[tombo]

My wife and I are moving to Ajijic in a couple of weeks, renting a 2 bedroom near Ajijic centro for a year. I see that most rentals have property tax included, some have some utilities included, and a few maybe all.

To help us budget and bargain, we'd appreciate knowing some ballpark figures for expenses we might run up to keep the household running.

Such as: Electricity? Propane (Is this what's commonly used for cooking)? Water (for potable H2O I figure we'll buy those big bottles)? Wi-fi? Land phone line? We won't need TV cable or a dish if all we do is stream through our laptop--and that's possible--right?

Some places advertise that they have internet available. What's the value of this?

Also, some rental listings include maid and/or gardener every 2 weeks. What is this service usually valued at?

My sense is that all these expenses might add up to about $150/month. Does that seem about right, generally speaking?

I've read about some of the unexpected adventures one might have when paying bills--we're just interested here in attaching some dollar or peso value to what we'll be paying.

Thanks for your help.

[hensley]

Electricity $600p every 2 months.

Gas can't tell you as we have solar water heater.

Water $17p per large bottle

Phone and internet Telmex $599p per month.

Maid and gardener $50p per hour.

[CCC]

Gas (propane) for cooking and hot water approx. $300 pesos per month.

CFE (electric) if you are frugal with power, around $600-800 pesos every two months.

$50 pesos per hour for maids and gardeners, most have two or four hour minimums. Some rental home owners or management companies want their own staff to do the house cleaning and yard work. If it is included in the rent it is good to berify the number of hours per week each service is provided.

If a listing says internet available it means just that. You can get telecable or telmex internet at the location, probably means you have to pay for it in addition to the rent.

[Travis]

Electricity is the wildcard. If you're narrowing it down to a specific rental, ask to see previous CFE bills going back several months (it's billed every two months here). Gas/propane for hot water and cooking, phone/internet, depend upon your needs and how much you use them. The rest of those expenses are pretty fixed, more or less. Focus on utilities, especially electricity.

[lakeside101]

my electricity runs less than 300p every 2 months

propane - I don't cook - less than 150p a month

[JayBearII]

Ah, yes, I lived in my present rental quite a while before the CFE guys came around and discovered I had a defective meter which was zinging its way around the dial despite my using not very much electricity. And my propane gas tank lines underground were leaking (dangerous situation). And this despite the fact that I have a very competent and helpful landlord. So you are very wise to ask about what others are paying. Besides helping you budget, it can give you an indication as to whether anything is wrong at your rental.

And beware of old refrigerators--they are big electricity users and may not keep your food at proper temps. Not to mention that you should be careful that your gas stove works properly--it is not supposed to erupt in a POOMP of fire after you light it--just sayin!

I have been lucky that the two property management companies I have dealt with have been super; if you are new here, this is a great convenience, and you can call them not only with the assurance of getting reasonably competent and fair charging repair people, but you can also call and whimper when the electricity or phone or water goes out, and they have connections at the utilities to exert some pressure to fix things.

[cedros]

Travis has good advice.

[NLU]

If you rent a place where you have to pay for your own electricity, be sure to review past year's bills to insure that you will not be in what we call the DAC rate designed for those who use electricity in excess of 250 kw per month. If you are able to start a new account in your name, you might escape this, but not always. CFE, the electricity provider, often moves in mysterious ways.

[Oldyfeliz]

Health Care costs ??

[RORRO]

My electricity runs less than 180p every 2 months. 2 persons, big house. big aquarium, need pump 24/7 and light all day

propane 150p a month. The water is already warm until November and no need the heater. My wife cooks a lot.

[gimpychimp]

Just to show how much power can vary, compare us to Rocco. 2 persons, medium house ( 2 BR ), plus 13 x 26 pool. Very frugal with pool, barely run the pump, only 1.5 hours a day. Before we went to solar power we paid $3000 pesos every 2 months. Power bills are all over the map down here and you should ask to see the last 6 bills so you know what you will really be paying when you rent.

[Oldjuggy]

Just going thru the health insurance process. I can't comment over 65 rates. Under 65, rate vary and there is pre-existing clauses. For catastrophic coverage we've been quoted $30,000 /year (married couple) to as high as $60,000 per year, (all rates in pesos). We settled on a plan from a reputable and very nice company in Lakeside the ats going to cost us $37,000 /year. Rates do up every year by 10% mas o menos. Hope this helps.

[Tony_In_Mexico]

Like they said, most prices are fairly fixed. Large jug of water (the size you expect to see on a water cooler in the states) 13 pesos. Internet (with free local phone up to a certain number of minutes I don't recall ever exceeding) 599 per month. I don't bother with cable, because as you pointed out, it's all free online, so that's where I watch my tv and movies. I go through a canister of propane about every 1.5 to 2 months. They currently run a bit over 400 each. Helps a lot if you have a trustworthy person you can call for replacements, as some of the canisters are older and leak a bit, making them go faster of course. Finally, the electricity, the bane of my existence. I live alone and I'm very frugal with my electricity. By which I mean that I don't just turn off lights behind me and such, I go to extremes. For instance, my microwave is only plugged in while I'm using it and immediately unplugged afterwards. My coffee maker gets plugged in for 15 minutes, and then immediately unplugged. I have no pool, no dishwasher or water pump or air conditioner. It's just me, a fan, and my computer. I pay about 1,000 every 2 months. Don't know why. I've hired electricians, I've made multiple visits to CFE, etc. Understand also, that for the first year I was here, my bi-monthly bill averaged about 350. Nothing changed over that time, except that I'm much more frugal now than before. I suppose the point I'm making is, expect the unexpected. And maybe, if you run across a place with cheaper electricity, let me know

[Xena]

Travis is right on. You have to see previous CFE bills on an existing property to have any idea what that property will cost you. I had a friend who struggled to get her CFE bill "down to" 1,000 pesos every two months. She moved to a different property. She was the same person living the same life. Her bills have now been around 150 to 200 pesos every two months for almost a year.

[El Saltos]

Health insurance cost is all over the map; from a few hundred pesos for IMSS to virtually nothing for Seguro Popular to 10s of thousands for 1st class private insurance. All private insurance is based on age, ours has nearly tripled in cost over the last 10 years.

[gary c.]

My electricity runs less than 180p every 2 months. 2 persons, big house. big aquarium, need pump 24/7 and light all day

propane 150p a month. The water is already warm until November and no need the heater. My wife cooks a lot.

Electricity...We pay 950 pesos every two months. Small house. Try to be frugal, but I do run the dishwasher and do use clothes dryer for sheets and towels.

Propane... We have an always on hot water tank... We spend 500 pesos a month.

[sm1mex]

I have Met Life with Bellon insurance, full coverage, 3,600.00 U.S. a year. I am over 65 and have the lowest deductible of 8,000 pesos per illness. I have used it multiple times for serious illnesses and they have always paid and Bellon has been there for me.

If you choose a higher deductible per illness, your premium will be less.

[giltner68]

There is nothing mysterious about the CFE, they're flat out arrogant legalized highway banditos. The power is "dirty" requiring regulators (which also use power) on anything of value, TV's, PC's etc. Depending on the area, it fails from time to time, during the stormy season and not during the stormy season, no rhyme or reason. It's a punitive cost structure that penalizes you for using more power by raising the cost per KWH as mentioned into the DAC rates and once there it takes months of being at a minimal level to get back down. And, even at lower rates it's not "cheap".

I rented a sizable place with a casita, the main casa used at least 12KWH per day while the casita was less. The cost for the main casita was roughly $.42 per KWH USD (at 10:1 converstion) while the casita was $.17 per KWH for 1KWH per day.

I'm currently NOB in TX, my power here is as you would expect and the more I use, the less it costs. If I use 1kwh per day, or 30KWH/month, it would cost me $.84 per KWH, if I use 3,000 KWH/month it costs me $.095 per KWH or about $283USD compared to CFE which would be more like $1,260USD (not conversion adjusted). The point is that of all the things that can bite you in MX, IMO the CFE are by far the biggest banditos.

[Go Solar]

CFE isn't perfect, for sure, Giltner.

However, a rate structure that supports those with little $$ and low consumption, and tiers upward until one hits the DAC rate, isn't all bad - it also allows those with more $$ to pay more for more consumption, while at the same time, encouraging conservation and / or producing ones's own power.

The TX model is more along the "Super Size Everything", because more is better & costs you less.......

different philosophies, social structures, & business models.

[Guest bennie2]

why jump thru all these hoops just to have electric? if you rent sometimes its included. that works well, as you have an allowence. i get $40 usd for electric & 300 pesos a month for gas. if i run over they let me know. sometimes i use more gas if i bake, but its not much to speak of. landlord pays the bills. fills the gas tank every 6 weeks. easy. no long winded discussions. im not a electrican & dont need to know details. they pay the phonebill too. if its over the limit i pay the rest.

[RVGRINGO]

Thank you, Go Solar, for a sane explanation. The lowest rate even includes a government subsidy for a considerable portion of the electricity used. A home without a pool pump, and with proper use of ventilation and protection from direct sun on windows and walls, may operate quite well on something like $300 pesos per month within the basico and intermedio rate structures.

[ComputerGuy]

CFE is no worse than some others. Take, for example, Hydro One in Ontario: 5% of "smart" meters are broken, providing hideously high "averaging" bills. I'll paraphrase here: estimated consumption increases are causing price-gouging; there are multiple-billing errors all over; lots of reports of bills not turning up at all; penalty payments on catch-up bills. Hydro rates are soaring; green energy installations are inefficient and losing money; Ontario is subsidizing the energy costs of Quebec, New York and Manitoba; signing contracts forcing Ontario to buy back energy at inflated rates; and now the provincial government wants to sell it off to finance short-term goals, thereby cutting off future income.

Sounds a lot like CFE until it starts to sound a lot worse. And truly, the public seems unaware or disinterested. "What will be will be".

http://www.brokenhydro.ca/

[tombo]

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to share your experiences! This has been very useful. CFE-wow! Dealing with them sounds like a pain. We'll definitely ask to see previous bills for the property. We've got health care covered for the first year and figure we'll take our time to figure out the best course from there.

[REC]

Just a heads up on health insurance. Assuming you are talking about "real" insurance based in Mexico that will work really well here - if you wait too long and pass some "magic dates" in terms of your age when you first sign up you will have far fewer options. If you wait until after 70 you will find VERY few options. Between 65 and 70 you will have more options but probably less than starting before turning 65.

Once you are on one of the plans most folks are talking about you will be able to renew your policy each year - although the premium will almost certainly increase as you get older. But the longer you wait to sign up the fewer options you will find - and after 70 you may find a few options but not many and those you find are likely to have some fairly important shortcomings.

Also be aware that some U.S. based plans may work pretty well here but you "may" have to pay out of pocket and then file a claim to be reimbursed by your insurance carrier. Some people have had an easy process using their insurance from "home" but I know of some folks who have encountered some unpleasant surprises during what was already a stressful situation.

[giltner68]

I'm glad the OP sees the light which was the point of this thread. However GoSolar, you're absolutely wrong and are supporting a flawed example of government enforced corruption at the highest level - which BTW you're making a nice living from and, for that, I applaud you. The model, which is a NP cooperative, I live under is a minimum charge of about $22 a month covering their basic cost of doing business and then charges per KWH after which mean that NOB a minimum of that amount is completely justified where temps vary from 90 degrees 3 days ago to 46 this morning - yet providing a robust system capable of supplying summer time AC costs. Their equipment is current, their operations efficient and timely and yet all work in unison to fullfil a need at a reasonable cost in a world where costs are, and have, gone completely insane in many, or most, cases.

I might add that the CFE claims their "actual" cost of production is the posted DAC rate which is in itself a self-indictment of it's inefficiency and corruption by world standards.

My long point put on a bumper sticker is: "it is possible to provide this necessity at a cost effective price" - but apparently not in Mexico.