Jump to content
Chapala.com Webboard

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Mainecoons

For Those Who Think A Flood Of Affluent American Retirees Is Coming

Recommended Posts

According to something I read, there are only 7 million American expats that claim to live permanently out of the US. That's a little over 2% and many of them are of working age.

In contrast, there are 13 million illegals and 82 million that live in the US that were born out of country.

The flow is obviously into the US, not out.

Supposedly, there's about 1 million Americans in MX according to the MX government but I doubt that. I think that also includes anyone with a visa above the 180 day visa level. A lot of those are workers for American companies and students.

I did some extensive research about 2 years ago. I can live about as well in the US in a small town in a lot of places outside CA and the NE. However, I'd have to be my own gardener and maid and the weather sucks part of the year no matter where you go.

I have relatives that think I'm crazy (may be right) and expect to hear of my death by druggie daily. As one of my cousins said about his wife "I couldn't get her across the border with a chain and a D9 Caterpillar".

Part of the problem is the US is so big. You can drive 1000 miles and still be in the US so if you don't like the weather or the state government, you can move elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at who used to come here, many if not most of them weren't highly affluent. As noted previously the affluent have a lot of choices. Mexico used to be really cheap and still very close to the U.S. It is still close to the U.S. but it sure isn't cheap and the new visa regulations are a big barrier to the modest income folks who have retired here in the past.

Sorry Snowy, I'm not persuaded by sheer numbers. The fact remains that the affluence of retiring Americans is going straight south and as many have noted there are safe and cheap alternatives right at home.

Our market is going to be driven by Tapatios more and more and they sure as heck aren't interested in high rise apartments with fat condo fees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at who used to come here, many if not most of them weren't highly affluent. As noted previously the affluent have a lot of choices. Mexico used to be really cheap and still very close to the U.S. It is still close to the U.S. but it sure isn't cheap and the new visa regulations are a big barrier to the modest income folks who have retired here in the past.

Sorry Snowy, I'm not persuaded by sheer numbers. The fact remains that the affluence of retiring Americans is going straight south and as many have noted there are safe and cheap alternatives right at home.

Our market is going to be driven by Tapatios more and more and they sure as heck aren't interested in high rise apartments with fat condo fees.

No sorry needed, Mainecoons, I agree with you.

I explained the points about how many Americans will be eligible to retire, to explain part of your title: why some people have predicted growth in the numbers of Americans coming to Mexico. Just because they come doesn't mean they'll stay, I agree with Rick and Gringal that they'll likely just make tourist trips, not creating waves coming to the Lake Chapala area to buy.

We came to the same conclusion, but for different reasons. Your first post posited that they would not be coming due to insufficient assets. I think the reasons may be more cultural.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new immigration requirements should not be a problem, as perceived by some. The recent reduction to $25,000 in the bank might be something that any retiree should accomplish before considering retirement anywhere. With that, he can get a visa and once in Mexico, the spouse can qualify for equal status without having to prove any financials under the vincula familiar rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A mass exodus of expat retirees would have little or no effect on the lives or livelihoods of 99.5 percent of the Mexican population,imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the situation in the U.S.A., but Canada banned compulsory retirement at 65 many years ago. People can continue to work as long as they can do their jobs. I recently heard of a university professor, who was very popular in his teaching days, retiring with tenure, etc., he became bored and has began teaching again at 75 years old. Many people are forced by financial circumstance to keep working, at least part time. The notion of giving it all up for a life of leisure at the age of 65, is crumbling in a great many cultures of the world. The opportunities for working are based on where you spent your working life. Not much opportunity in Mexico, even for Mexicans, and not everyone is cut out for free volunteer work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A mass exodus of expat retirees would have little or no effect on the lives or livelihoods of 99.5 percent of the Mexican population,imo.

True but it would have a big impact locally. In GDL, it probably wouldn't be noticed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snowy, my point in the OP about the assets is that, yes there may be more baby boomers but clearly they aren't as well off or prepared for retirement as the generations prior to them. Hence, just looking at the numbers does not describe the entire situation of these retirees and those who will follow them.

I might add that as long as these governments keep interest rates basically at zero, it will serve to further diminish the ability of people with assets but little income, to retire.

In the seven years we've been here, Lakeside has evolved into an affluent suburb of GDL and I fully expect that trend to continue. Probably in another 7 years, the expat community will be just an asterisk here in south GDL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mexico is listed as the largest expat country for Americans and the Lake Chapala area as the largest expat area in the world. When you look around, it's not very big.

One thing that these people forget is although a lot of people are retiring, a lot of us are also dying. Not a surprising fact considering we are all of retirement age.

If young Americans were flocking in and staying for 40-50 years, it would be one thing. I don't see many of those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they will go somewhere else.

Here's what Forbes Magazine said:

"If you’re planning to retire abroad—because you want to live better for less, diversify your investments or enjoy a greater degree of adventure—you should consider Panama, Ecuador and Malaysia."

Here's the whole list:

Panama

Equador

Malaysia

Costa Rica

Spain

Colombia

Mexico

Malta

Uruguay

Thailand

Ireland

New Zealand

Nicaragua

Italy

Portugal

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2014/01/06/the-15-best-countries-to-retire-to-in-2014/

Also, I find it hard to believe that there are more Americans in the Lake Chapala area than anywhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mexico is listed as the largest expat country for Americans and the Lake Chapala area as the largest expat area in the world. When you look around, it's not very big.

That doesn't seem right. I think the Mexican census showed about 6,000 foreigners in the Greater Chapala area at that particular time, and there were actually another 1,000 more than that in the Puerto Vallarta area if you included nearby Nayarit beach towns. I read somewhere that Spain gets 61,000 people a year moving there, mostly from other EU countries. Of course they are allowed to work, start businesses and get decent, free healthcare

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way there's 1,00,000 Americans living in Mexico. That erroneous figure came from a writer many years ago. The Mexican census supports 1,000,000 foreigners in Mexico. The INM income requirements were reduced, so that is no longer a problem. Security is a bigger problem IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The average monthly SS check is about $1,300, so it's marginal and as we all know, it doesn't go up much anually, but the INM requirement is based on a daily wage which is adjusted each year and so it could easily exceed the SS average soon. And, that average also means a sizable percentage of folks are below the $1,300 level and with the rising costs in MX, living on that today is a challenge and IMO those are often the people needing to find a more affordable lifestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Security is the main issue for the expats I meet.

The income requirement is one of the lowest in the world for an expat to live legally in another country. Is it not reasonable for Mexico to expect foreigners living here to be self-sufficient? As it is expats even as a temporary resident obtain senior's discount cards, free healthcare, driver's licenses. As a TR you are allowed a foreign plated car for 4 years. Mexico does not even require a background / security check even though they should.

Ask a Mexican how do they visit Canada or the US let alone live legally in either country. The cost for a US tourist visa is not much different than a one year TR visa.

Ask a Mexican how do you keep a foreign plated car in Canada or the US for 4 years.

Ask a Mexican once the visa process is started in the US why is it not until your visa is approved may you not leave the country and that takes up to 6 months or more. Here an expat can leave after finger prints, typically, 2 to 3 weeks.

saludos

Sonia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Self sufficient? - yes, but, and forgive me if I don't remember correctly, the Temporal requirement was 400 times the daily wage and when last I figured it out that came to about 13X more than the "average" MXN apparently needs monthly per the government. So, why does a gringo need 13X more? Now, I apologize if my recollection of the numbers is not correct this was a year and more ago when I got my last Temporal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That may be before the reduction to something like $25k USD proven. Less than any other country, isn‘t it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Few if any expats live like a poor Mexican and are not willing to do so. So you think an expat should be allowed to live here on an income of $1500 / 13 = $115 / month which you believe is what the "average" Mexican requires? It may surprise some but tens of millions of Mexicans have an income of $1500 / month and more let alone $115 / month.

And, allowing people to have a visa who have less resources often they end up working illegally and possibly taking work that could be done by a Mexican. I see this every day with many expats selling art, real estate, singing, teaching English etc. to support themselves.

So the Mexican government has set a number of $25,000 in an account for 12 months or $1500 income per month. And the spouse and / or children need no additional income. I doubt one should be considering retirement if they can not meet one of these requirements.

Odd no one addresses the difficulty of a Mexican to legally live in the US or Canada. Why are the expectations of some expats so different for them to be here in Mexico than what is expected of a Mexican to live in the US or Canada? Some suggest you can live in parts of the US for an amount similar to Mexico. Then why can't a Mexican be approved to live in the US proving $1500 / month or $25,000 of investments / savings?

saludos

Sonia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the Mexican government has set a number of $25,000 in an account for 12 months or $1500 income per month. And the spouse and / or children need no additional income.

Having $25,000 in an account sure doesn't sound like an unreasonable requirement to get permission to live in Mexico as a retiree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, I get everyone's point, but really... how many of us really feel that "when it comes to requirements, we should be treated like the poorest Mexicans"? On the contrary, I believe that most of us are intelligent, level-headed folk who just want to do the best we can, and that we live here because we like it here and we are accustomed to its ways. None of us wants to be lectured on our attitudes, and very few of us actually need to be lectured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That may be before the reduction to something like $25k USD proven. Less than any other country, isn‘t it?

No, not correct. Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay, and many more have much lower financial requirements than Mexico.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to a German news report: Ecuador has recently become a lot less welcoming to Canadians, Americans, Germans, and Brits who don't speak Spanish.

The Ecuadoran govt. has recently changed their rules, forcing their current foreigners in Ecuador to prove Spanish fluency, or surrender their residency and leave. This has only happened in recent months, so many past positive internet comments about Ecuador as a retirement destination, are soon to be out-of-date, with it becoming difficult for non-Spanish speakers to stay in Ecuador.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....

Then why can't a Mexican be approved to live in the US proving $1500 / month or $25,000 of investments / savings?....

The answer is simple, since the IRS collects $14,000,000,000 from illegal Mexican immigrants in the US why would they ever consider granting them a visa and in turn pay out benefits to them in the future?

It is to the financial advantage of the US to maintain the status quo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...