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Her method of publishing on line is unique for this area. Minimum overhead good presentation , just sign up and send money. She is a hustler, has interesting articles, and has found a niche .

She uses peoples email exclusively, so having heard of the meeting very easy to contact local Gringos..

Question; how did she and other folks, get "The (Lake Chapala Society???) List" in the first place.

I receive emails from from other sources, I guess pirated copies of "The List" are sold at the Tianquis!!!

I belong to LCS and am in the book, but i did not get an invitation, so the LIST isn't from LCS.

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Your email address is in the book? I recommend nobody put their email address in any publication like that, other than for business purposes.

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You are right, Computer Guy. But since 1998 I have had my telephone number and email address in one and now two phone books lakeside, and for ten years while I wrote for the Guadalajara Reporter, I had my "techtalk@laguna.com.mx" address shown at the beginning of every story, each week.

So far I have been lucky. No problems.

Sure, I do have more spam than I would have had, had I not made my email addresses public. But my spam filters took/take care of most of them.

And luckily never did I receive any emails from this Spanish Lake City.

Again Computerguy is correct. I guess I have just been lucky. Now if this new "Lake City" will only have a Costco store and a Burger King, I will have everything that I will need.

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Dale Palfrey's front page article on this issue in today's Reporter has a final sentence on local web boards where she notes that "unfounded speculation is running rampant."

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Just read it. Also read about all the omissions and "vague" statements. At least she noticed those.

Does anyone seriously believe the scale of this thing is appropriate to either Chapala or Lakeside?

That was totally not addressed in this disappointing work by the Reporter. Totally lacking was any investigative work about whether the proposers really have the horses to do something on this scale, about all those omissions relating to water, sewer and roads and the geology of the site.

Not to mention what was or is in it for those officials who signed off on something behind closed doors without any warning to the community and with obvious great lack of the technical and geological details that should precede any such approvals.

It is this kind of official behavior that gives rise to the speculation as to just whose payrolls they are on.

What is the most ridiculous about this whole thing is that amateurish market study that is based on bad math and is clearly not up to date on the retirement restrictions and preferences faced by that mythical wave of baby boomers that are somehow going to come up with the money to retire at all, let alone they would want to give up the privacy and amenities of low density housing so they can move here and be stacked up like cord wood.

Somebody needs to sit these ivory tower college folks down and show them all the recent studies about how the boomers don't have enough money in the bank to retire at all. And when they finally do, they'll be looking at a Social Security fund that is broke.

The fact is that today's retirees, the ones already living here and showing no interest in living in high rises, are the lucky ones.

Ain't gonna happen, folks. A lot of baby boomers will be working into their 70's thanks to the economic decline of America. Unfortunately, what we'll most likely end up with is a devastated piece of property pouring mud down on its neighbors during the rainy season and some abandoned holes and half constructed buildings. Think about that black hole up on the libremiento and multiply by ten or so.

A very poor effort, Dale, sorry. We would have been better off if you had taken more time and really did some digging on this. We know you know how.

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Mainecoons . . . I like your thoughts, but can do without your editorializing. America is not in economic decline . . . it happens to be the strongest and most robust economy in the world today. Also, Social Security is in great shape for at least 35 years . . . will only get stronger in years ahead.

Otherwise, I appreciate your insights, whether I agree with them or not.

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I would like to agree with Tycobb1020, but reality is with Mainecoons. I do believe that we are expecting others to give answers with clarity to end all speculation. The fact is that most of the answers we are looking for will come with time/patience.

We only know a little. Not enough for me to make any decisions regarding leaving or continuing to live here

"I can only accept the things I cannot change"

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Let's give Dale a break. First, this is a reported article, not an investigative article. She's barely had time to look into this in any detail. Second, while she does know the ins and outs of the local goverment offices, no one magically gives her information that is not generally available to the public. Which means you or I would probably have as much luck trying to get details.

Third, any good investigation means confirming uncovered facts by getting confirmation from other sources; since no one around here seems to know or admit to knowing anything about it, how is she going to do that in record time? Anyone working "under the table" with this group from the government is not going to be forthcoming, especially if it could get them in trouble. Next, considering whoever is in on the this may quite well be outside of the municipal government, how is anyone going to get any information.

In the very short time since the meeting, she has also had all her other duties to attend, and the paper goes to bed on Thursday night.

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I would give Dale a break except that she spent much of her article complaining about the behavior of understandably shocked attendees at the meeting (since this thing was hidden from the people and signed off by these government "officials" with absolutely no notice to anyone as to what they were up to) instead of asking the tough questions and not just repeating a lot of the vague hot air that comprises basically all of what these people have come up with.

Let's see if she bothers to dig deeper. For certain, there are few things going on around here that are as game changing as this proposal is.

Ty, you really need to do some homework. Start with this:

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/brooks/2013/01/28/retire-debt-crisis-retirement-boomers/1840225/

http://www.nasi.org/learn/socialsecurity/boomers

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/america-part-time-jobs-poverty/

All from credible sources. Here's the reality: Except for a few fat cats, the incomes of the middle class folks, like the ones who retire here, is going down. Straight down. Few boomers have the savings needed to afford to retire and that is getting worse by the day.

Thanks to government actions, no one earns anything on their savings unless they invest in an extremely bubbled and overvalued stock market and that is predicted to blow up any day now just as the last bubble, housing prices, did.

It is nonsense to base the economic projections for this thing based on the past wealth and behavior of retirees as the coming retirees don't have near the assets that the past ones did.

The Mexicans don't like this sort of housing at all and the gringos are able to afford it less and less, not that they are all that keen on apartment living either.

On top of that, the Mexican government is hardly making it easy to retire here. Hence, we find that the increasingly limited means of retirees is sending them to other places where the deals are better.

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TX, Mainecoons, I agree totally.

It is too scary to even begin to believe that this project could actually be started, let alone completed as stated so far. Building skyscrapers on unstable land is unthinkable! San Francisco has tall buildings and is earthquake prone, BUT - the big difference is that the USA, especially California, has very stringent building codes and utilizes the latest technology regarding quakes, and spares no expense to build the best. We all know that is not the case in Mexico where shoddy construction is the often the norm. Is that not a recipe for disaster? What would you expect from an outfit that uses Google translations on their website???

I would venture that the only people who claim to support this monstrosity are the ones that would stand to profit in some way from this supposed Baby Boomer Boom down here. As I pointed out before, the gringo invasion has already slowed since 2008, and there are no reality based indications that any large development is necessary or welcome here - or even going to happen. If northerners wanted to live in such a complex, they could do that much easier at home.

Today I ran into my friend, Domingo Marquez, who is the editor of the SeminarioLaguna Spanish weekly on local matters. He will be coming out with the news soon for the Mexican community. I predict that the people will be up in arms, especially those that live in Chapala, when they find out what has been planned totally behind their backs, and then presented to foreigners before they were informed at all!. Talk about rude and insulting!

There are elections coming up, and we expats can't vote, but there is no reason we can't continue to discuss this issue with eachother and our Mexican friends. My maid understands how corporations often pay the lowest possible wages to workers, keeping people mired in poverty even as they hold down full time jobs - and all the profits go elsewhere to where ever those at the top live - like Walmart.

The traffic concerns alone should be enough to nix this! What, are they expecting that the thousands of new arrivals and customers of the convention center, mall, etc. are magically going to teleport themselves around? Obviously, the Dog And Pony Show provided no answers, and so people were understandably rude as they knew they were being lied to and having their intelligence insulted.

For those of you who feel any remote support for this venture - the next time you are stuck in traffic around here, especially around Chapala, just imagine it being about, oh, 100 times worse. That is what Lake City would bring.

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Just as an example of how unrealistic this thing is, I got an email from a buddy of mine who follows stuff around here.

You noted the "wave" of baby boomers is as silly as the Olympic games a few years ago at the lake. People with bags of money just dying to buy at any price? - yeah right. Well, fast forward to today and retirement in the States, it's far from impossible and I'll give you my situation which isn't for everyone, but it works for me....

I bought a place (in Texas), approximately 60 miles to the heart of Austin, about 50 to Cedar Park and major shopping, a Costco etc. I have a Dollar General store 1 mile away with a number of restaurants in that same radius. The closest major grocery store is Kingsland 5 miles plus a major Ace Hardware, a second grocery store is 10 miles in Burnet and a larger one 20 miles in Marbles Falls which also has Home Depot and Lowes.

I am in (xx) county so my taxes are low. I bought the house, 3 bedroom, 2 bath fireplace etc with sizable decks front and rear. A 4 year old 4 car garage or "barn" which is 20' X 40' plus two additional 10' X 18' bodegas. The property is 1.3 acres with "city" water. I paid $75K for the property including a riding mower etc. My taxes are around $575 per year, the total PITI is $447 per month. Water is a bit expensive, $50 per month, electricity is less than $0.12 per KWH (and reliable, what is the value of that?). So, you see the basics of life in a rather pleasant place are more than affordable.

Retiring isn't cheap here but it has gotten a lot cheaper NOB. Why do you think the real estate market is STILL so sluggish here? Why would anyone think that a bunch of people are going to suddenly show up with a burning desire to live stacked like cordwood. pay the price of a house for it and pay a stiff condo fee for the privilege?

We shouldn't have to be the only ones pointing out the obvious. Skeptical, hard nosed reporters are supposed to be good at that.

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I beg to differ. This is a weekly, English-language informational paper that reports on items of interest to the ex-pat community. It is not a well-staffed, hard-hitting, resource-based investigative vehicle. It does what it can with very, very limited resources. If it dies, I will sorely miss it, and we will be left with a large information "hole". When it can do more, it does. There are times when this is possible, and times when it is not. Dale is "reporter" of events, who tries to clarify the details of a story that might be of interest to us.

It was not her job at this gathering than to do any more than report on events. She is not paid to spend her time snooping at El Presidente's office and making enemies. Hell, she's probably barely paid at all. If somebody wants to cough up a decent salary for dedicating to an "investigative journalist", go for it.

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Then she should have skipped spending most of the article complaining about the people who have been blind sided by this.

Today I ran into my friend, Domingo Marquez, who is the editor of the SeminarioLaguna Spanish weekly on local matters. He will be coming out with the news soon for the Mexican community. I predict that the people will be up in arms, especially those that live in Chapala, when they find out what has been planned totally behind their backs,and then presented to foreigners before they were informed at all!. Talk about rude and insulting!

And added to that by publishing a letter that did the same.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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The ironic thing is that if the U.S.A. just changed one law, it would be a huge economic boom for their country. That law, is to allow financially eligible foreigners, with compulsory medical insurance, to own property in the U.S. and stay there for more than one year. Right now, they can only stay six months, no matter their net worth. Asians, Latin Americans, Canadians, Europeans (including Russians) would be buying up all the homes, and building new ones, in the style that were bought and lost in the 2007 crash.

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I would give Dale a break except that she spent much of her article complaining about the behavior of understandably shocked attendees at the meeting...

It was not a "meeting". It was a sales presentation.

I object to the proposed project as much as anyone. It is absolutely ridiculous as it's "envisioned". Like many here, I'm making sure all of my Mexican friends know about it - and many hadn't heard - since they need to be aware of what's what. For me, I take comfort in the idea that the project, as it's proposed, is so absurd and ridiculous that it will never happen in a bazillion Mexican years.

Still, it seems unfair to ridicule a reporter for simply reporting what happened at a public presentation. She was just doing her job. And there will undoubtedly be more to the story…….unless the whole shebang just evaporates, which at this stage seems entirely likely to me. :lol:

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""Today I ran into my friend, Domingo Marquez, who is the editor of the SeminarioLaguna Spanish weekly on local matters. He will be coming out with the news soon for the Mexican community. I predict that the people will be up in arms, especially those that live in Chapala, when they find out what has been planned totally behind their backs,and then presented to foreigners before they were informed at all!. Talk about rude and insulting!""

Mainecoons, I am confused. Is the above quote you posted from the Guadalajara Reporter article, an editorial or a letter to the editor?

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Thanks to a kind friend's PM, I have learned that the quote was from none of the three sources I named but another post in this thread.

I was confused by the placement of the quote.

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I have lived here for 15 yers and am a Mexican citizen. When I came this area was very rural outside the villages and even the villages were less populated. There was little traffic, few stores, some restaurants and LLT and the auditorio.

You knew almost everyone and mostly made your own fun.

In those 15 years the population has swelled, both Mexican and foreign. Roads are crowded, water levels are dropping and even though CFE has expanded service it still is not very reliable.

At what point is an area overbuilt? From Ajijic to Chapala we are, in my humble opinion, reaching critical mass.

There are two other projects proposed at the present time. The proposed hospital is needed. The luxury hotel that is proposed is within a reasonable size and will create jobs and will help the economy.

Lake City, will destroy the area and make it unliveable.

People had strong reactions to the sales pitch that was looking for both investors and people willing to put up money for pre-construction.of future apartments. I think the presenters were the rude participants. They insulted our intelligence by not having answers to important questions that spoke to serious concerns about the infrastructure and how they would ameliorate the incredible overload of what exists now in an already crowded corridor and one that has already lost many homes and offices to very unstable land in the area.

Their answers to these questions when they responded was they would be taken care of "eventually". Forgetting the huge amount of habitations they envision, picture a convention hosting 5000 people emptying out at the same time time. That alone is enough to defy rational thought.

I can write much more but I cannot believe this project will really come to fruition.

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I would strongly suggest to the local government who is involved in this venture as well as the principals that they get a good translator and pay very close attention to the blowback this issue is generating from the foreign community - if they don't want to lose a heck of a lot of money. After all, this project was ostensibly developed for "us" - we were the ones notified of the very first presentation...so, they need to listen to the quite articulate and informed feedback they are getting.

IN the USA, Urban Development is a now seasoned field of expertise born of hard experience over the last several decades since the 1950s. It is an area in which the US is far ahead of Mexico, if I may politely say that. We've already Been There And Done That! That's why so many of us are quite easily able to see the disastrous aspects to this project.

The construction alone would be a disaster for the area. Imagine all those workers trying to get to their jobs on the little narrow 2-lane street! Imagine all the dust, dirt, and noise the neighbors would have to put up with for 3 years! Imagine the excavated land after the first strong unseasonable rain!...

Another friend and I were chatting about this issue today. She was at the meeting and told me that the woman presenter actually said at one point, "We know what's best for you." Huh??? From all accounts, it sounds like the PR people expected a group of doddering and senile old folks with money to pick like low hanging fruit - who would be wowed by this gargantuan proposal. But, it turns out we are a lot more savvy than they expected.

Hopefully Dale Palfrey will have some updates for us when work resumes next week. Maybe someone could provide the missing pages to the documents she was given. Those missing pages speak volumes... Is that not a sign of bad faith or fraud?

And the plot should thicken when the news hits the Mexican community! Already today, there was a political rally on my street...

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It was not a "meeting". It was a sales presentation.

I object to the proposed project as much as anyone. It is absolutely ridiculous as it's "envisioned". Like many here, I'm making sure all of my Mexican friends know about it - and many hadn't heard - since they need to be aware of what's what. For me, I take comfort in the idea that the project, as it's proposed, is so absurd and ridiculous that it will never happen in a bazillion Mexican years.

Still, it seems unfair to ridicule a reporter for simply reporting what happened at a public presentation. She was just doing her job. And there will undoubtedly be more to the story…….unless the whole shebang just evaporates, which at this stage seems entirely likely to me. :lol:

I'm not ridiculing anyone. I am expressing my opinion that a less than stellar job has been done by the press here. As you say, it is their job.

What we needed was some hard nosed questioning of this and the people responsible, particularly these government people. What we got was a lot of complaining about the people being blindsided by this thing, deceived by the government and talked down to by the presenters who basically presented little more than smoke and mirrors and baloney.

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