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The numbers do not add up literally.

If you assume the sub totals refer to the numbers above them on the same page then the sub totals are incorrect!!

The jobs created numbers themselves look low for the condos (>2000) they estimate 138 direct/indirect but with one maid cleaning 4 condos per week then 500 would be needed.

The unemployment figures also look "odd" under 5% which is very good by most standards I think the bean counters consider any figure under 3% to be full employment so where are these workers coming from.

Also most of the unemployed shown are not in Chapala but all along the north shore.

Would you employ an MBA from this university??

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What is really ludicrous here is that these people think a bunch of expats from a retiring generation with declining assets and the general mentality NOB among retirees of not liking living in apartments are going to come down here and live like stacked baloney in these high rise towers.

Someone should point out to them that thanks to the fiscal policies of the Federal Reserve, American retirees can't earn anything on their savings and many of them are having to continue to work well after age 65.

I wouldn't hire these guys to do a market study on a hamburger stand.

Hire whoever does market study for WalMart. They are going like gangbusters in Mexico. I'm sure the real market researchers they employ would get a good laugh out of this amateur hour production.

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Lisa Jorgensen here. Here's the editorial I wrote this evening.

Most of us expats are not Mexican citizens, which means we can’t vote, which means politicians can ignore us if they want to. If we make ourselves so disliked that the last thing they want to do is listen to us or talk to us, we will lose our voice and our ability to shape our futures here.

That is why today’s discourteous interaction with the developers of a modern complex was not only embarrassing, but counterproductive. The shoutouts from the back rows, the guffaws, the chronic woe-is-us negativism—the self-righteous belligerence of some in the audience will certainly give pause to other groups contemplating bringing significant issues before us. We just aren’t civil enough—we, ironically, who think we have the advanced civilization. And because of that, we’re losing our voice.

How do I know? Because we’ve lost part of our voice already. Remember the Lake Chapala Society’s Town Meetings? They brought traffic commandants and immigration officials to have some meaningful exchange of information with us. I was there at each one, and I came away incredulous at the rudeness of some members of the audience. They refused to sit down and listen. They came with chips on their shoulders, and were determined that everyone should hear their bellyaching. They ruined it for all of us. The result? No more Town Meetings. And, frankly, it was the one program the Lake Chapala Society had that I thought was relevant to today’s modern expats.

Whether the complex being presented today is a good idea or not is beside the point this evening. These are serious business people with a plan. They presented the plan to the Municipality of Chapala, who gave them the green light. Our job today was to learn. If we want to fight city hall, we should take it up with city hall. I encourage you to start a committee (of courteous people) to talk with city hall. If I were them, I’m not so sure how responsive I’d be, given our inability to be civil. We seem to forget that we are guests here.

Feel free to write a Letter to the Editor at info@LakeChapalaReporter.com. All thoughtful submissions will be published.

Sometimes anger is appropriate, as in this case, towards a group of ultra rich people who want only to line their pocketbooks and who have no care about us, our land, our community, our economy, our way of life. I hope to see anger focused against these thieves and rapists and further hope to see their backs, never to return. Their arrogance is absolutely astounding. Their project has nothing to do with the local Mexican community or culture or with us expats who have made our last home here.

"We seem to forget that we are guests here." I`ve had quite enough of that hogwash! Some of us have lived here for 20 years or more. Most of us have made permanent homes here and are intimately part of the Mexican community. We have a perfect right to speak up and activate about issues affecting our lakeside life. If someone wants to lay down and get dirty boot tracks on their back, so be it but it happens not to be among my proclivities.

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"We seem to forget that we are guests here." I`ve had quite enough of that hogwash.

Unless you're a Mexican citizen you are a guest here.

Get your Mexican citizenship and learn Spanish,then you'll have a voice here.

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Unless you're a Mexican citizen you are a guest here.

Get your Mexican citizenship and learn Spanish,then you'll have a voice here.

I have, and deserve, a voice by virtue of my investment in this community. I speak Spanish.

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Can you cite under what law you have and deserve a voice? There is a big difference in what we "think we deserve" and what the laws say we are entitled to. Sometimes it is painful to realizw we have very few "rights". Great that you speak Spanish but until you become a voting citizen you have very few rights except to stay our of politics and thus remain "in country".

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Just received this in my email:

The permits don't appear readable on my screen.

Oldy, please watch the first, you keep equating this huge project with small stuff. This is a character changing proposal for this area. And yes, I believe everyone here has the right and duty to speak up about things like this. I just can't imagine the people of Chapala wanting to be eclipsed by this monstrosity.

Why should ousiders have more rights to determine the character of a community than the people who live there?

I also received an email from Lisa and the Lake Chapala Reporter telling me to check out these videos. I clicked on both of them, and it states 'this video is private'. I couldn't view a thing!

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i speak Spanish, have lived here 20 years, I am a Naturalised Mexican citizen and I vote. Today at the tianguis I approached a number of Mexican friends, many of whom are activists in the community. Guess what- none of them knew about this planned community, none of them knew about the "informational" meeting on Monday, and all were aghast at this plan.

Those are the people, not 200 ex-pats, who should have been invited to that event. They know that the area selected to house that ridiculous outcropping is one of the most unstable portions of the unstable geography here. I am doing my best to inform those who have all the rights to know what is being planned for their community. Then they,( not the aging ex-pats who supposedly are targeted to support that planned monstrosity), can do what they feel is best.

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both worked for me

but the numbers do not add up

read the plans, dissect them and make some valid comments otherwise you are just moaning gringo.

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I went with the court to serve papers and nobody knew about the project. I think things will get very interesting next week with information being able to be verified.

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I got that email also, with links that were marked "private". What's up with that?? Why aren't they public viewing if they are supposed to be proving a point?

A few more thoughts - to newcomers who are oblivious to the negative aspects of the Walmart and Centro Laguna developments... Remember when they were built 5-6 years ago? That treacherous intersection of the Carretera and the Libremiento became the most dangerous spot in Lakeside. There was virtually no traffic control and many wrecks occurred. I saw one aftermath involving a huge gas truck which fortunately did not blow up. At this point, HarryB and others are still working on the traffic issues at that corner.

Urban Planning, like Amplified Sound Management, is still a new and emerging concept in Mexico, which makes it even more risky to build large developments which will have a devastating effect on local traffic. For starters!!

My friends in Chapala reminded me that that hill, which many people like to go hiking on, is well known for seismic instability. The new 2-story townhouses on the street above the Hotel Monte Carlo are already showing cracks and signs of slippage of the earth. And I recall that the new business space at that corner sat empty for quite a while before it was occupied; don't know the current status.

If enough money changes hands, it is possible to have any kind of "reports" and "studies" drawn up to prove exactly what point you want to prove - and facts become a mere inconvenience.

The problem with any sort of outside developers or corporations building anything in a small community is that the profits do not stay there - they go where the owners live. The jobs created would be mostly service jobs, very low paying, keeping the workers in entrenched poverty, so let's not imagine that this would be an overall improvement to the local economy.

I lived for several years in Las Vegas where rampant development provides growth - like a cancer! For every great new hotel built, another one closed! They are seriously running out of water, and that was predicted decades ago.

We need to communicate this situation with our Mexican friends. We expats with home computers have much more media access, and therefore are more aware of current events of all kinds. So, we can be a valuable source of information to them - to at least give them some ballpark info to get started with. When they realize how this project would rape the land and destroy the ambience of the town, they will not support this!

I'm reminded of the issue of the Huichol people who fought the huge mining company that wanted to take over their ancestral land, promising them jobs in exchange. The Huicholes fought it all the way - and won. We need to all stick together to fight this thing in whatever form it takes.

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The instability of the area is certainly a well-known fact around here. Due west of the main Chapala intersection is a row of uninhabitable and abandoned buildings, which were damaged by a shift in the earth and an ensuing landslide. The landmark mural is actually painted on a retaining wall, built to try to prevent the next landslide from blocking Avenida Hidalgo. Before being renamed, the street was known as known as Calle Aguascalientes because that is where the natural hot springs came bubbling up. I believe both the Monte Carlo hotel and the Lake Chapala Inn draw geothermal water from private wells onsite to fill their pools. In looking at the brochure, it appears that this development is planned to be constructed to the west of the Monte Carlo, across the street from the little park along the beach.

The lake itself sits in the depression of a caldera created during a previous eruption of Mt. Colima. Uh oh...what's that plume of smoke I see on the horizon?

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If it looks like a duck, walks etc.etc. What's the big deal? This appears to be a pure simple attempt at hustling deposits,down payments and blowing town at midnight IMHO because for just a couple of many reasons. One- inviting only Gringos. The Company's impression might be that we have lots of money, and easily taken advantage of at our age. Which once in a while will unfortunately happen. Two- If I understood correctly the presentation was cheap? ill prepared? ect. which would indicate the promoters did not even have the financing, or a better thought out plan to do the BIG hustle. They should have watched the movie "The Sting" first. THAT tells you they are amateurs. At the very,very least amateurs at their vocation IMHO Gee. Hope din't offend anybody with my opinion.LOL

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I went with the court to serve papers and nobody knew about the project. I think things will get very interesting next week with information being able to be verified.

What does it say about the municipal and state governments that they would apparently sign off on something like this behind closed doors and apparently willfully concealing the knowledge of it and their actions from the community until now?

Is this the kind of government that engenders respect and a belief in its integrity?

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People who are "Permanente" status residents have all the rights under the Mexican Constitution (A LAW) of a mexican citizen save participation in political campaigns/ voting. All permits are public record in Obras Publicas. You may get a look at them, after a runaround. You could photo them. They would never let you make a copy. It would be interesting if Dale Palfrey would list which permits they have and who signed them in her article, which i assume is coming.

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And for those who don't know it, Harry is a Mexican citizen.

Thanks Harry.

Perhaps the "developers" never did actually approach the proper officials. after all, there seems to be no actual evidence of authrization.

They are displaying letters signed by Jalisco and Chapala listings in the presentations given above.

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From one account of the presentation I heard the promoters were surprised that so many people showed up - and so was I. Just imagine how surprised they would have been if NO ONE had shown up. What would they have done next?

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it's like any other project here

it will take 15 year to fill the place

2000 condos 700 hotel rooms etc

they will be selling times share fractional ownership's, it will take time to fill up.

and of course they will not do it with there money,

they will try to build it we pre pay money ,

the project will be slow and the first owners may get a view but they will be living on a construction site for 15 years and be complaining that it was not built out fast enough.

the in about 5 years or they will being a high maintenance fee for there condo, which will catch them by surprise

but as usual the they are elderly and did not due the due diligence necessary in buying.

cant sell nobody would i used condo when a new is available at the same price.

until its full in twenty years

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Perhaps Dale Palfrey could put together a reliable, unbiased" investigative " report. A review of all the comments here should give a good outline of what to needs to be covered. It really would be helpful to all to have a legitimate summary rather than just opinions and guesses. LJ seems to have lost the confidence of the readers.

Someone suggested a while back of having a "group" of mature, level headed expats to become consider and investigate. I think that is a great idea.

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