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Before anyone asks, yes I live Lakeside and do business in Guadalajara and I am totally neutral on the Lake City project.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is great to have a board like this to express said opinion, I don't quiet understand the negative and at times rude tone with respect to this and other developments in the area.

The reality is, it takes visionaries to bring new and unproven ideas to life.

I see complaints about Walmart, yet the community is shopping there. I see complaints about Centro Laguna, yet many times on my way home from Guadalajara I see the parking lot almost full. etc etc etc

The developer obviously thinks it's a viable project and I'd imagine would do this in stages to gage the success of the development.

One overriding thought that keeps coming to mind, is that this and other developments create job opportunities, a rare commodity lakeside, and I assume that 100% of these opportunities, except the sale of real estate, will be taken advantage off by the segment of the population that need it most.

I don't have a problem with any of that except that you are comparing apples to oranges IMO. The developer has thus far failed to give any evidence that they have the experience, let alone the financing, to carry out anything on this scale, which is far, far beyond the examples you cited. Really, those examples are trivial compared to the scale of this thing.

Visionaries need experience when working on this scale too. Where's the experience?

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Before anyone asks, yes I live Lakeside and do business in Guadalajara and I am totally neutral on the Lake City project.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is great to have a board like this to express said opinion, I don't quiet understand the negative and at times rude tone with respect to this and other developments in the area.

The reality is, it takes visionaries to bring new and unproven ideas to life.

But it takes a con artist or a fool to claim they are building a high rise on unstable land with a high water table and a long record of serious construction issues.

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The two members here complaining the most about our collective response are brand new to this board. I'm willing to bet they are shilling for their "other" identities.

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The two members here complaining the most about our collective response are brand new to this board. I'm willing to bet they are shilling for their "other" identities.

Firstly, you lost your own bet - I am not 'shilling' for anyone and secondly, did not sign up to the board yesterday.

Am I to understand that in your world only members that agree with your opinion are allowed to express themselves?

As stated, I only wanted to provide a perspective - maybe I was wrong in my assumption that that is part of a 'discussion'.

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Regardless of our opinions on this project, if it's true that this company already has the necessary property and permits, what, exactly can anyone do about stopping it at this juncture? Most expats here are non-citizens. Even if they were, what could actually be done?

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Once again, by September any issued permits may be voided. It is the next admin who will decide if this will really be built.The gigantic base (hotel/hospital/bank/restaurants/etc) might be meant to balance the tower / s. But, the whole mountain side is so unstable the whole shebang could come down on Monte Carlo. Those owners should be terrified.

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It shouldn't be hard to find out if they issued permits without notification to anyone. Harry, you going to be in there soon?

Maybe they are planning on suspending it from a sky hook so it won't slide off during rainy season.

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Excellent idea Mainecoons. The cost of the hooks surely would be offset by a lower insurance rate. Though one other problem for someone else to figure out is how to keep those things that fly out of the lake water at night, from running into the sky hook cable. So typical isn't it. You solve one problem and up pops another. HELP NEEDED!!!

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There are many major construction projects in Mexico. The expertise is available, and I make the presumption that these people are smart enough to avail themselves to Expertise.

As stated before, I have lived here 15 yrs , have a Mexican Wife, and own property. But , I do not feel that I have the right to control the destiny of the area. This is Mexico(different than North America), and if this happens(and it is possible), Lakeside will just become more of a Guadalajara suburb. Which is already in process.

Now we have stoplites, Walmart, Soriana, CFE Subestacion, Better/more telephone/internet, Medical Care, another Movie, Telcel offices, Many Coffee shops, More OXXOs, Car washes, More Restaurants, Malecons, Many more Subdivisions, etc

The constant of change continues, due to the desires/actions of people........

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Just received this in my email:

The permits don't appear readable on my screen.

Oldy, please watch the first, you keep equating this huge project with small stuff. This is a character changing proposal for this area. And yes, I believe everyone here has the right and duty to speak up about things like this. I just can't imagine the people of Chapala wanting to be eclipsed by this monstrosity.

Why should ousiders have more rights to determine the character of a community than the people who live there?

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Heck, forget Chapala. I'm trying to figure out where in the world, outside of Dubai (already struggling financially), anyone would allow this.

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I believe everyone here has the right and duty to speak up about things like this.

I disagree,something about foreigners meddling in the local politics and practices of their host country rubs me wrong,I feel the same way about Mexicans waving their flags and protesting about immigration policies in the US.It's not a foreigner's place to try to tell the locals how to run their country,IMO.

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Again, why does some outside developer have more rights than the people who live here, have invested here and who support the local economy?

Not about politics, about what kind of community people want to live in. You might feel different if this thing was going to loom over your home as it would over that of some friends of mine.

In point of fact, people from here do make their voices heard in the U.S. to a far greater degree than vice versa.

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OMG... is that ever HUGE...UGLY..and OUT OF PLACE... :o

It rather reminds me of those Empire battleships in Star Wars. Do you suppose that is where the architectural inspiration came from, the Evil Empire?

:D

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MC, the permit is signed by MANUEL BUENROSTRO MARTÍNEZ, DIRECTOR DE DESARROLLO URBANO. It is out of focus and really hard to read and I can't find a date, I did see $48,533,046.89. I have a dolled up screen shot I can send you if you want. PM with an email

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In response to cbviajero:

Mexicans in the US have a right to protest 'immigration policies' because it affects them directly...and after 5 years of legally living here I no longer feel as if I am just a 'guest' but someone who lives here...a resident...and what happens here affects me. Just as I erase graffiti, or clean up trash on the hiking trails, or work to create a safe walking trail for the students on the Libramento, were I simply a 'guest' here I guess I would be content with sitting in the plaza sipping margaritas and watching the world go by without caring about anything else. But I LIVE here so I care...it's my home too.

And quoting from Oldyfeliz:

"The constant of change continues, due to the desires/actions of people........"

I agree...the constant of change continues, however, the desires/actions of WHAT/WHICH people? the WalMart people? the Burger King people? the Starbucks people? and now the LAKECITY people?

Or...perhaps the desires and actions of the people who actually live and work here?

Time will tell if the local community actually wants this project to exist here. It will be interesting to watch it unfold. However, I would love to know who got paid off and bribed to get these permits. However, as a mere GUEST here, I doubt I will ever know...

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Ha ha - that video and factoids looks like some architect or developers pornographic dream! Wait - porn is a realistic depiction of human sexuality isn't it?

Well the crowd that says NEVER buy real estate in Mexico will feel vindicated. They will have enough fuel for smug smiles to last a few years.

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Lisa Jorgensen here. Here's the editorial I wrote this evening.

Most of us expats are not Mexican citizens, which means we can’t vote, which means politicians can ignore us if they want to. If we make ourselves so disliked that the last thing they want to do is listen to us or talk to us, we will lose our voice and our ability to shape our futures here.

That is why today’s discourteous interaction with the developers of a modern complex was not only embarrassing, but counterproductive. The shoutouts from the back rows, the guffaws, the chronic woe-is-us negativism—the self-righteous belligerence of some in the audience will certainly give pause to other groups contemplating bringing significant issues before us. We just aren’t civil enough—we, ironically, who think we have the advanced civilization. And because of that, we’re losing our voice.

How do I know? Because we’ve lost part of our voice already. Remember the Lake Chapala Society’s Town Meetings? They brought traffic commandants and immigration officials to have some meaningful exchange of information with us. I was there at each one, and I came away incredulous at the rudeness of some members of the audience. They refused to sit down and listen. They came with chips on their shoulders, and were determined that everyone should hear their bellyaching. They ruined it for all of us. The result? No more Town Meetings. And, frankly, it was the one program the Lake Chapala Society had that I thought was relevant to today’s modern expats.

Whether the complex being presented today is a good idea or not is beside the point this evening. These are serious business people with a plan. They presented the plan to the Municipality of Chapala, who gave them the green light. Our job today was to learn. If we want to fight city hall, we should take it up with city hall. I encourage you to start a committee (of courteous people) to talk with city hall. If I were them, I’m not so sure how responsive I’d be, given our inability to be civil. We seem to forget that we are guests here.

Feel free to write a Letter to the Editor at info@LakeChapalaReporter.com. All thoughtful submissions will be published.

Looks like you have little impartiality on this issue, Lisa, and next to none as a reporter. Not sure I'd quite believe anything you'll be printing in your magazine or saying on this forum from here on.

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Ha ha - that video and factoids looks like some architect or developers pornographic dream! Wait - porn is a realistic depiction of human sexuality isn't it?

Well the crowd that says NEVER buy real estate in Mexico will feel vindicated. They will have enough fuel for smug smiles to last a few years.

Or these post about SMA last month: And, sadly, the beautiful pueblo of SMA ceases to exist, and a BIG city takes it's place. What a loss ! :(

And: hookem you mean ugly urban sprawl. as long as you stay w/in the historic section you wll be ok.

Seriously and sincerely, hopefully, expats and Mexicans at lakeside will be able to get the facts and this does not happen. What is in the video does not seem remotely possible but it is Mexico. May I suggest you work with the Mexican community and possibly a small committee who will get answers keeping those concerned united and informed. You may even want to retain someone who knows how this process works for building approvals, permits etc. One of the earlier posters appears to know the process and may at least worth asking for guidance. How the administration both at the local and state level is approached will be important. As noted below confrontation and I will add embarrassing individuals in positions of power will not work. In SMA even in the "expat" local paper The Atencion, the mayor was quoted stating going on social media with negativity will get you no where. In SMA the expat who did that is referred by the mayor in writing to my husband as an "$%&/()". No one in his administration would meet with this expat and nothing positive resulted. Work together, positively and be very open minded as to what is truly approved and planned. It may bare no reality to the videos that were thankfully posted and trying to rationalize or discredit what is proposed likely does not matter from a business sense. Focus on impact on water, sewage treatment, air and lake quality, roads, traffic, fault lines, etc.

Sonia

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I posted before about Jorge Castaneda's interesting books and public speaking engagements - at which he is expert. He points out Mexico's individualism, leading to not being good at team sports (written well before the World Cup) and dislike of apartments. He also says, and writes, that Mexicans also intensely dislike any form of confrontation- physical, verbal - any form. This chimes with what Sonia is writing, chimes with the many cultural viewpoints on this thread, and with Globe and Mail link. There is a very special way to get interests seen to in Mexico, and in no way does it just involve handing over money.

So here is a full video of one of his talks in the U.S.A. There is also a podcast. It is a bit of work, because it is long, but I think it is insightful, especially in understanding how many important, powerful people in Mexico think.

http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/06/05/mexicans-vs-mexico/events/the-takeaway/

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